2016-2017 Kings Roster Talk Part IV

[Bandit]

http://www.latimes.com/sports/kings/la-sp-kings-eliminated-elliott-20170403-story.html

When his team needed speed, Lombardi added revered but limited 39-year-old winger Jarome Iginla, whose flashes of combativeness put many of his teammates to shame.

Where's the wanking off emoticon? That the team is slow is a myth. They're playing slow, big difference. And that "limited" 39 year old? Only guy to show up regularly on the score sheet and in the heart department since his acquisition.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

They're playing and moving slow because they have zero puck distribution skill. They move the puck slowly from their own zone to the neutral zone, and most of their zone entries are on dumps.

Just about 99% of their play is pinned along the walls, and when you are kept to the outside, you're not going to do much.

 

[KingsFan7824]

I think she was hitting the nail on the head RE: being stubborn at the deadline but her reasoning is off: he was stubborn because he once again gave up an asset for the future in Cernak to try and help an obviously flawed team.

Iginla was free as far as assets go and was a good move. I understand the reasoning for the Bishop trade but I stand by the belief that moving another 2nd round prospect for a rental was stupid: especially this season.

Another deadline, another young prospect or pick headed out the door for a few games of some ******* that does zero to move the needle on this team.

Maybe they felt Cernak wasn't developing enough, and like most trades people want Lombardi to make, he got rid of him a year early rather than a year late? We'll have to wait and see on that. Plus they did just sign another defenseman picked in the same draft as Cernak a few days ago. Again, we'll have to wait and see if it was the right call.

Just a fun stat:
Over the last 3 years, the Kings are a +51 in goal differential. Toffoli is a +65, and Brown is a -28.

 

[BigKing]

Maybe they felt Cernak wasn't developing enough, and like most trades people want Lombardi to make, he got rid of him a year early rather than a year late? We'll have to wait and see on that. Plus they did just sign another defenseman picked in the same draft as Cernak a few days ago. Again, we'll have to wait and see if it was the right call.

Just a fun stat:
Over the last 3 years, the Kings are a +51 in goal differential. Toffoli is a +65, and Brown is a -28.

While that may be true, he was flipped for a goalie that was going to give you 5 games and has only won once.

Just keep Budaj as the back up and call it a day.

As for year early as opposed to late, that thought process on here is being applied to roster players and not unknown quantities like Cernak: especially not two years after being drafted.

But I argued it at the time of the trade: it is either a bad trade, a bad pick or both. Now that we've seen the results, let's hope it was both and not just a bad trade. As you said, we will have to wait and see. If Bishop somehow goes to Vegas and we keep everyone, the trade will look better at the moment.

Brown was horrific in 2015, was he not? No surprise there as I think he was a major minus player that season.

 

[KingsFan7824]

While that may be true, he was flipped for a goalie that was going to give you 5 games and has only won once.

Just keep Budaj as the back up and call it a day.

As for year early as opposed to late, that thought process on here is being applied to roster players and not unknown quantities like Cernak: especially not two years after being drafted.

But I argued it at the time of the trade: it is either a bad trade, a bad pick or both. Now that we've seen the results, let's hope it was both and not just a bad trade. As you said, we will have to wait and see. If Bishop somehow goes to Vegas and we keep everyone, the trade will look better at the moment.

Brown was horrific in 2015, was he not? No surprise there as I think he was a major minus player that season.

Team worst -17. Toffoli was a team best +25.

It may not be a great stat, but Kopitar was +12 in 11-12, +14 in 2013, +34 in 13-14, +34 last year, and in minus country this year and 14-15, when they managed to miss the playoffs. He really is the barometer of the team.

 

[BigKing]

So part of the reason for trading for Bishop was to "save Quick" with a long term look at his health since they couldn't play him every game and they had little faith in Budaj.

Team is officially eliminated.

Quick is in net tonight.

 

[KingsFan7824]

Draisaitl, 0-5-5
McDavid, 1-2-3
RNH, 1-2-3
Eberle, 0-3-3
Maroon, 2-0-2
Gryba, 2-0-2
Lucic, 1-1-2
Nurse, 1-1-2
Klefbom, 1-0-1
Benning, 0-1-1

Carter, 1-1-2
Toffoli, 1-1-2
Forbort, 1-1-2
Shore, 1-1-2
Setoguchi, 1-0-1
Iginla, 1-0-1
Dowd, 0-1-1
Clifford, 0-1-1
Martinez, 0-1-1
Doughty, 0-0-0
Muzzin, 0-0-0
Brown, 0-0-0
Kopitar, 0-0-0
Pearson, 0-0-0
Gaborik, 0-0-0

That's 9 GA in 4 games. Carter's goal was SH, as was Toffoli's assist. RNH's goal was into an EN. The Oilers have scored 2 PP goals, with the Kings at 0. The Kings, surprise, surprise, have been out shot by the Oilers 125-124. Three of the games were in Edmonton. 6 defenseman with more points than Doughty.

 

[KingsFan7824]

So part of the reason for trading for Bishop was to "save Quick" with a long term look at his health since they couldn't play him every game and they had little faith in Budaj.

Team is officially eliminated.

Quick is in net tonight.

Quick hasn't gotten hurt again, and it's not a back to back. If Quick plays both games over this coming weekend, then it's maybe worth some quotation marks.

 

[BigKing]

Quick hasn't gotten hurt again, and it's not a back to back. If Quick plays both games over this coming weekend, then it's maybe worth some quotation marks.

I know I'm picking nits here, but what is gained by playing him?

Obviously can't sit all the skaters and call up replacements for them, but you can control who is in net.

Might as well get all the mileage we can out of that Bishop trade.

 

[deeshamrock]

Where's the wanking off emoticon? That the team is slow is a myth. They're playing slow, big difference. And that "limited" 39 year old? Only guy to show up regularly on the score sheet and in the heart department since his acquisition.

I don't think it is. In prior years, when they had a better transition game (see Mitchell, Willie) and could move the puck quickly, they appeared faster. And the system they use doesn't require fast skaters, just skaters who can move the puck quick. They don't have very many fast skaters. And teams that do, have systems that utilize that. But they are stuck with what they have and hopefully, a new coach with a new vision can make some positive changes that would allow them to appear faster.

 

[deeshamrock]

Maybe they felt Cernak wasn't developing enough, and like most trades people want Lombardi to make, he got rid of him a year early rather than a year late? We'll have to wait and see on that. Plus they did just sign another defenseman picked in the same draft as Cernak a few days ago. Again, we'll have to wait and see if it was the right call.

Just a fun stat:
Over the last 3 years, the Kings are a +51 in goal differential. Toffoli is a +65, and Brown is a -28.

Two things there, 1) I think Clague who is younger, made him expendable and 2) due to the glut of young d in Ontario, there was no room for Cernak and he had to stay in Erie, which his family felt hindered his development. Next year, that should change, he'll get to develop better in a pro league, not juniors. He's only 19 and 1 year in the AHL playing in all game situations will help him grow his game. He's a big physical defender and a rightie, which most teams prize. He'll do fine in Tampa

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

I don't think it is. In prior years, when they had a better transition game (see Mitchell, Willie) and could move the puck quickly, they appeared faster. And the system they use doesn't require fast skaters, just skaters who can move the puck quick. They don't have very many fast skaters. And teams that do, have systems that utilize that. But they are stuck with what they have and hopefully, a new coach with a new vision can make some positive changes that would allow them to appear faster.

Yeah, I'm not sure how anyone can say the Kings not being fast is a myth after their embarrassing games against the Oilers.

The Kings got burned a number of times due to their lack of foot speed. In addition to making McNabb and Forbort look like pylons, they even exploited Doughty. Kopitar has been skating in quicksand all season as well.

 

[BigKing]

Two things there, 1) I think Clague made him expendable and 2) due to the glut of young d in Ontario, there was no room for Cernak and he had to stay in Erie, which his family felt hindered his development. Next year, that should change, he'll get to develop better in a pro league, not juniors. He's only 19 and 1 year in the AHL playing in all game situations will help him grow his game. He's a big physical defender and a rightie, which most teams prize. He'll do fine in Tampa

I can't get on board with that.

The glut of young D in Ontario is currently on the Kings roster, at least those players that are expected to be NHL'ers.

Clague is a LHS as well.

Dean thought it would get the Kings in to the playoffs so he made the deal. They obviously aren't as high on him as when they drafted him, but I don't think Clague made him expendable.

More like the reality of missing the playoffs for the second time in three seasons made Cernak expendable.

 

[deeshamrock]

I can't get on board with that.

The glut of young D in Ontario is currently on the Kings roster, at least those players that are expected to be NHL'ers.

Clague is a LHS as well.

Dean thought it would get the Kings in to the playoffs so he made the deal. They obviously aren't as high on him as when they drafted him, but I don't think Clague made him expendable.

More like the reality of missing the playoffs for the second time in three seasons made Cernak expendable.

Those young d were in ONtario last year, so there was no room for him and I wasn't referring leftie/rightie with Clague, I meant as a young prospect, younger than Cernak and more time for him. Next year or the year after to hit the Reign. It's not the first time DL has traded away a young d prospect for a rental, just gets another one in the next draft. And had Cernak been in Ontario all year, things would have been better for him, as a pro league.

I get why Dean made the deal (don't agree with it ) but understand he felt because the Kings produced little to no offense all year , by having 2 starters rotate, it gave them better odds at winning 2-1 games, also Bishop was insurance if Quick got hurt. But the Kings aren't winning with Quick, because offense was and is the problem, not goaltending or defense. I don't like trading for rentals, I'd rather have him admit this team was not a playoff team and roll with budaj , keep Cernak. Or if trading, get a non rental.

 

[SettlementRichie10]

The Bishop trade was just one more head sctratching move in a long line of Dean Lombardi head scratching moves.

 

[Johnny Utah]

Helene mentions the Kings 3rd and 4th lines from 2012 and 2014 and how our bottom 6 aren't as good anymore.

In 2012 it was:
King-Stoll-Lewis
Richardson-Fraser-Nolan
Clifford, Gagne, and Loktionov rotated at different times.

Clifford got hurt a few games into the playoffs, Richardson played 13 games and was the most consistent LW on that combo of Fraser/Nolan, and Gagne (when he came back from injury) played in the finals. Loktionov stepped in for a few games. Fraser missed 1-2 for a personal issues.

Those lines didn't blow anyone away. Half these guys aren't even in the NHL now except for Lewis, King, Richardson and Nolan.

In 2014 it was:
King-Stoll-Williams
Clifford-Richards-Lewis

None of these blow anyone away except for the fact Williams are on fire in 2014. Lewis and Richardson are the only players with speed.

 

[ibleedkings]

“Obviously we are disappointed and this season’s end result is not acceptable,” said Dan Beckerman, CEO of AEG and the Kings. “With what we have built and the roster that we have, we should be preparing for another run at the Stanley Cup.”

Might be it for Dean or Sutter.

 

[The Tikkanen]

So part of the reason for trading for Bishop was to "save Quick" with a long term look at his health since they couldn't play him every game and they had little faith in Budaj.

Team is officially eliminated.

Quick is in net tonight.

It was a bad trade. Not only was it bad and most critics didn't understand it it came the day after Quick came back and played well.

 

[KopitarFAN]

Might be it for Dean or Sutter.

Can only hope.

 

[lumbergh]

The Bishop trade was just one more head sctratching move in a long line of Dean Lombardi head scratching moves.

It's not a head scratcher if LV signs Bishop, which is a good move for LV. Effectively the Kings would have lost Cernak to the expansion draft. We'll have to wait a few months to see if this happens. Then Lombardi can explain that this was his plan all along. Crazy conspiracy theory kinda stuff, but I wouldn't put it past DL.

 

[The Tikkanen]

It's not a head scratcher if LV signs Bishop, which is a good move for LV. Effectively the Kings would have lost Cernak to the expansion draft. We'll have to wait a few months to see if this happens. Then Lombardi can explain that this was his plan all along. Crazy conspiracy theory kinda stuff, but I wouldn't put it past DL.

You don't understand the expansion draft rules if you think Cernak is on their radar.

 

[AlphaBravo]

You don't understand the expansion draft rules if you think Cernak is on their radar.

That's not what he is saying. If LV signs Bishop then that satisfies the Kings' expansion draft requirement. So he is saying it would be equivalent to losing Cernak, not that LV is targeting Cernak.

 

[kings11]

Some guys on here are really having a difficult time comprehending a simple, calculated trade in Ben Bishop.
Did we need another not really, was Budaj wearing down? Absolutely, was Quick an injury risk having takijgvso much time to return from such a severe injury ?? Of course... Therefore, when we couldn't afford to trade for a much needed forward we settled on a going forward with 2 #1 goalies and hoping we could sneak into the playoffs... did it work, no it did not.. but it was a very good trade/try on DL's part and if LV doesn't try and sign him we could always trade his rights for a pick...
Now some also try to convince themselves that the Cernak deal was either a bad trade or a bad pick.. the truth is it was neither, he was passed up by other Dman and became expendable much like McKeown was and he's not doing great either... I trust our scouting when it comes to these deals and other than losing the 13th pick everything we've traded has turned out better for us!

 

[Reaper45]

Might be it for Dean or Sutter.

100% think Sutter is done.

 

[Bandit]

Yeah, I'm not sure how anyone can say the Kings not being fast is a myth after their embarrassing games against the Oilers.

The Kings got burned a number of times due to their lack of foot speed. In addition to making McNabb and Forbort look like pylons, they even exploited Doughty. Kopitar has been skating in quicksand all season as well.

Answer is in your own post. You think Doughty and Kopitar suddenly forgot how to skate? They look slow because they've been sandbagging it all season. Lazy ass, brain dead play.

It just happened again in the oilers game just now. Doughty gets the puck in the D zone, Kopitar is skating up ice, taps his stick in the ice for the pass, Doughty looks at him, waits, licks his own ass, doesn't pass it, throws it up the boards instead...

Mentally slow. stupid. dumb.