Proposal: 2016-17 Trade Rumours and Proposals Thread Part X

[Vesa Awesaka]

I talked to some friends of mine, who are very avid Avs fans and they said Duchene is only at his best with 2 elite players on his line. He can't be the best player on his line if u wanna make serious noise. They also said he has chemistry with no one, probably only O'Rielly and that he's very hard to play with unless u put him up with elite talent.

Lol, no thank u to any of that.

I still think acquiring Jagr and depth D would be the best move we can do and could actually have just as big an impact as any other (reasonable) additions. In the summer we'll deal with the rest.



Well if that's out goal then we might as well stay par for the course. Chabot and White will make us legit playoff team where we'll win a round or two.

I like Jagr but we have a better chance of a third round pick that we'd trade for him winning the cup with us then him. He's the type of player you acquire when you are at the cusp of winning. We are a team that is scratching and clawing to make the playoffs and its a very real possibility that we dont make it. I agree with the idea of depth d though. Maybe even a top 4 dman to give us more flexibility and depth. The bottom 6 needs to be upgraded too but hopefully that happens naturally with player progression and neil and kelly being let go

I think this team is dieing for another elite level forward or dman and sadly i dont think there is any on the market.

 

[Vesa Awesaka]

Perhaps i'm mistaken but i dont find Duchene or Landeskog super appealing. Maybe its because their presumed cost and having watched how Colorado played. I never felt either of them looked dominant.

I could be totally off but Matt Duchene to me is a discount Hall(stylistically) that might very well cost more.

 

[SAK11]

I talked to some friends of mine, who are very avid Avs fans and they said Duchene is only at his best with 2 elite players on his line. He can't be the best player on his line if u wanna make serious noise. They also said he has chemistry with no one, probably only O'Rielly and that he's very hard to play with unless u put him up with elite talent.

Lol, no thank u to any of that.

What a rarity for a player to play his best with 2 elite linemates

It's also pretty impressive that without O'Reilly, the only guy he's apparently ever found chemistry with, that he's managed 45 goals in a year and a half.
Also, when I think O'Reilly, I think of a very smart, two way forward with good passing and scoring abilities. Sounds a lot like Mark Stone...

Duchene's a great player, not elite and not the type of player that can carry a team, but he can be a very nice piece on any team. He's an elite skater, he's turned into an elite faceoff man [59% the last year and a half], and he plays well in all situations.

The price will be too high right now, though. I can't see Colorado trading him or Landeskog for anything other than an over the top offer as of now since there's no rush with both of them under contract for the next few years.

 

[Upgrayedd]

Why is everyone so keen to make a trade?

How soon we forget that last year Uncle Gene dug deep into his pocket and bag of tricks and got us Scott Gomez, and if memory serves correct, his one assist over 13 games nearly put us over the top. There's gotta be more of that available this time around too.

*spends next hour dodging tomoatoes*

"Spend when the time is right" Let's hope the time is right AGAIN this season!

Seriously though imo now is the time to make the push and spend any and all money possible, take the shot and if we miss well at least we tried.

 

[topshelf15]

Perhaps i'm mistaken but i dont find Duchene or Landeskog super appealing. Maybe its because their presumed cost and having watched how Colorado played. I never felt either of them looked dominant.

I could be totally off but Matt Duchene to me is a discount Hall(stylistically) that might very well cost more.

Duchene = Center ice version Mike Hoffman ,Lando =Milan Lucic.Both are good top 6 guys I suppose ,but arent worth nearly as much as AV fans seem to think.They already traded away their best player to Buffalo and got hosed

 

[BUCKLE UP]

Hypothetically, if we were to mortgage the future, who would be the more significant add to the team: Tavares or OEL?

OEL has 2 years left and we'll assume JT signs an extension.

Chabot + White + piece

 

[Burrowsaurus]

Hypothetically, if we were to mortgage the future, who would be the more significant add to the team: Tavares or OEL?

OEL has 2 years left and we'll assume JT signs an extension.

Chabot + White + piece

Tavares is the big need imo.

 

[operasen]

With the draft this year, acquiring an asset now will cost double when we have to protect it and the loss of the players traded to get him. We need to stay the course now and as soon as Free Agent season opens, go hunting hard after Oshie, Stafford, Berglund type of forwards (productive and young).

On the D end I'd look for Shattenkirk, Stone, Del Zotto or maybe Alzner. And by hard I mean we Chara then by knocking on the door at midnight with a bag of cash and a contract.

Clearing out Kelly, Neil will create space. Dorion also needs to make the tough decisions on MacArthur (retire, LTI), Lazar, Pyatt, Claesson, Borowiecki and most obviously Ryan.

By adding some quality, Dorion can show Karlsson we are serious about contending. We have not done that since the Anaheim series.

 

[danielpalfredsson]

Perhaps i'm mistaken but i dont find Duchene or Landeskog super appealing. Maybe its because their presumed cost and having watched how Colorado played. I never felt either of them looked dominant.

I could be totally off but Matt Duchene to me is a discount Hall(stylistically) that might very well cost more.

I think people are overrating the difference between Turris and Duchene. Duchene is better, but I don't think it is by enough to justify giving up what we'd need to give up to get him.

Landeskog would be a better acquisition for the team fit wise than Duchene as he is cost controlled at about 6M long term and brings a type of player we really don't have on the wing in our top 6, where as we already have Turris as our first line C.

With that said, I still would not be interested at the cost of Chabot++ as well as the future ramifications of having to lose other guys due to adding his 6M salary. Chabot is not an unfair ask, but it isn't something I'd want to do. I think when some posters are throwing around ideas like Chabot+Brown+1st or whatever it was for Landeskog, he's being a bit overrated here.

If we miss the playoffs, I could see us trying to make a huge shakeup in the off season after the expansion draft. But I'm not sure I see us making a huge acquisition during the season. Maybe a deadline rental or something. This year's Hemsky.

 

[danielpalfredsson]

With the draft this year, acquiring an asset now will cost double when we have to protect it and the loss of the players traded to get him. We need to stay the course now and as soon as Free Agent season opens, go hunting hard after Oshie, Stafford, Berglund type of forwards (productive and young).

On the D end I'd look for Shattenkirk, Stone, Del Zotto or maybe Alzner. And by hard I mean we Chara then by knocking on the door at midnight with a bag of cash and a contract.

Clearing out Kelly, Neil will create space. Dorion also needs to make the tough decisions on MacArthur (retire, LTI), Lazar, Pyatt, Claesson, Borowiecki and most obviously Ryan.

By adding some quality, Dorion can show Karlsson we are serious about contending. We have not done that since the Anaheim series.

Going after free agents is all good in theory, but do you really expect the Sens to be able to sign Shattenkirk or Alzner? This is the same team that failed to sign a bottom pairing defender after Dorion talked about wanting one all last off season. The reality is, we're not a strong free agent destination, and we can only overpay to woo free agents if we actually have the money to do it. Even then, no guarantee they want to come here over more desirable destinations. Our last two big free agent signings were 5 or so years ago and were two good but over the hill players in Gonachar and Kovalev. After that, our most celebrated FA signing was a reclamation project in Clarke MacArthur where we got extremely lucky because he wanted to stay in Ontario and just got kicked to the curb by the only ohter Ontario team. We're not the Rangers. We cannot craft our gameplan around the prospect of being able to fill spots with big name free agents.

Almost all those guys you listed other than Ryan and Mac won't create any cap space. It doesn't work that way. Most of those guys make salaries around 1M. If you get rid of them, you need to replace them with another player who on average will probably make at least 800k which erases almost all the cap savings. So it isn't like we can roll with a 6 man roster and triple shift Kyle Turris in order to free up 20 million to sign John Tavares or something.

Mac is a complicated situation. The team can't spend his money until he is officially retired for good, and even if they say "hey screw you mac you're on LTIR for good", what happens if/when he finally gets cleared? Now they've spent the cash devoted to his contract on someone else but also have to pay him as he is officially activated. It is much easier said than done.

Ryan is another complicated scenario. I think they'll have an opportunity to cut bait on him if they want to, but they probably end up having to take back a shorter term bad contract. The idea that we can cut bait on Ryan and spend that money on a UFA who'll be better than him or will play a big role is asinine when you consider our lack of history attracting free agents.

Keep in mind, this will be one of the most competitive off seasons in recent memory for signing free agents due to Vegas coming in and taking cap from other teams, leading to teams who otherwise wouldn't have the space not only having cap space, but needing to fill spots more than in previous seasons. If Dorion builds his gameplan around trading away guys or moving guys with the idea that we'll sign big name FAs to fill their spot then he is a moron and should be fired by Melnyk because we don't need someone living in a fantasy world that we're the New York Rangers or Chicago Blackhawks aka hugely attractive FA destinations running our team.

 

[Micklebot]

With the draft this year, acquiring an asset now will cost double when we have to protect it and the loss of the players traded to get him. We need to stay the course now and as soon as Free Agent season opens, go hunting hard after Oshie, Stafford, Berglund type of forwards (productive and young).

On the D end I'd look for Shattenkirk, Stone, Del Zotto or maybe Alzner. And by hard I mean we Chara then by knocking on the door at midnight with a bag of cash and a contract.

Clearing out Kelly, Neil will create space. Dorion also needs to make the tough decisions on MacArthur (retire, LTI), Lazar, Pyatt, Claesson, Borowiecki and most obviously Ryan.

By adding some quality, Dorion can show Karlsson we are serious about contending. We have not done that since the Anaheim series.

Not exactly.

Acquiring a player (who we presumably will protect) means exposing somebody that we wouldn't have otherwise, but if that player ends up getting picked by LV, it's not as simple as just adding that player to the equation, as LV was always going to take somebody. So, for example, lets say we add OEL, now we protect Karlsson, Phaneuf, and OEL. LV picks Ceci, so the add to the equation isn't whatever we traded for OEL + Ceci, but rather the difference between Ceci and whoever we were going to leave exposed between him and Methot.

If we acquire a forward, it means we need to expose somebody we wouldn't have otherwise. Obviously, we protect the guy we acquire, Turris, Brassard, Hoffman, Stone. After that, we choose two of Ryan, Dzingel, Pageau, and Smith (I guess MacArthur too) instead of three of them. So, we're really talking about adding the difference between say Pageau and Smith, not the full value of pageau or Smith.

The possibility exists in both cases that LV would have taken the same guy regardless. For example, we decide to expose Methot because of Ceci's age, and LV prefers Methot over Ceci anyway, or we decide to expose Ryan trade or not, and LV opts to grab him for some star power up front despite his bad contract.

 

[SixthSens]

Hypothetically, if we were to mortgage the future, who would be the more significant add to the team: Tavares or OEL?

OEL has 2 years left and we'll assume JT signs an extension.

Chabot + White + piece

Definitely Tavares. A line of Hoffman-Tavares-Stone would destroy teams. Add Karlsson to the mix and it becomes ridiculous.

 

[Micklebot]

Definitely Tavares. A line of Hoffman-Tavares-Stone would destroy teams. Add Karlsson to the mix and it becomes ridiculous.

While I'd love to have Tavares, what is he going to cost when it comes time to re-sign him?

I suspect best case scenario he come in somewhere between Stamkos and Malkin, so 8.5-9.5 per year.

If we can find a way to magically drop Ryan without anything coming back, I'd be all in for Tavares. But that ain't happening.

I guess we could pray Snow could be convinced to take Ryan as part of the package for Tavares...

So, would we do this:

Chabot, White, Brown, Ryan, 2017 1st

for

Tavares, assuming he's extended at 8.75 per year for 6 years (I know, he can't be extended until next year)

I think that's a lot to give up, but I can't see Tavares commanding anything less, particularly with us needing to include Ryan as part of the package to make it work. Could we swap out one of our prospects for Brassard? Would holding onto say 1.5 of Ryan's salary be doable to help us keep one of our prospects?

 

[Sens Vader]

Well, like I've said time and time again, we are 1 elite forward and 1 top 3/4 defender away from contending. I believe Chabot will fill the latter, we just need to find the former.

Since that forward may not be available, we must stay par for the course until the opportunity presents itself and then we should pounce immediately. Until then we draft well and try to win by committee, accumulating great depth, like CBJ is doing, and by excellent bang-for-the-buck trades like we did prior with Cullen/Sutton and with good meaningful free-agent signings.

(Or you could alternatively say we are 2 top 3 defender and 1 top 6 forward away from competing: EX: Shattenkirk+Chabot added to D and Palat to F)

Bottom line: We need to make a splash when we need to, doesn't have to be soon tho but it should be addressed for same time next year.

I think we are more than that away from contending, personally. But the opportunity IS presenting itself lol a 26 year old 60-70pts center who has won a gold medal is available... like what are you waiting for?

you want an elite 1C superstar that scores 70-80points a season? prepare to wait forever because those guys never get moved (and the chances of Ottawa landing one IF they were available is quite poor - especially if free agency is part of the acquisition)

imo we should have made a splash yesterday, its gonna be a ***** to make big moves when Stone Karlsson and Turris all have new contracts. Waiting solves nothing for this team, prospects are gonna develop whether you trade for big pieces are not...and were not that young.

 

[Answer]

Definitely Tavares. A line of Hoffman-Tavares-Stone would destroy teams. Add Karlsson to the mix and it becomes ridiculous.

This made me cry.

Hoffman - Tavares - Dzingle

Smith - Turris - Stone

MacArthur - Brassard - Ryan

Pyatt - Pageau - Lazar


Oh ****..

 

[NyQuil]

I can't imagine, if he had a choice, that Tavares would go from a franchise with ownership issues to another franchise with "interesting" ownership.

 

[Micklebot]

Assuming the only roster player out is Ryan and Brassard for salary reasons, here's what a Tavares acquisition would look like, keeping some existing combo's together for chemistry sake:

Smith (28) - Tavares (26) - Stone (24)
Dzingel (24) - Turris (27) - Lazar (21)
Hoffman (26) - Pageau (23) - Pyatt (29)
Paul/Bailey/Varone ect (21-25) - Kelly (35) - Neil (37)

Methot - Karlsson
Phaneuf - Ceci
Boro/Claesson - Wideman

I don't like that depth unless we can get MacArthur back healthy as a 4th liner, and even then, it still doesn't look like a sure thing contender to me.

 

[Micklebot]

I can't imagine, if he had a choice, that Tavares would go from a franchise with ownership issues to another franchise with "interesting" ownership.

That's a fair point, but I think our ownership issues become far less in the spotlight with a winning product selling tickets and going on deep playoff runs. If this team is adding 2nd and 3rd round revenues, cash strapped sens could become a thing of the past, and we could see a cap team in Ottawa, like we did when Melnyk originally came on board. Maybe I'm being naïve to think that the team's budget is tied to it's revenue, or that we'd be willing to project based on 2nd and third rounds and take on the risk of revenue shortfalls from being ousted in the 1st.

 

[NyQuil]

That's a fair point, but I think our ownership issues become far less in the spotlight with a winning product selling tickets and going on deep playoff runs. If this team is adding 2nd and 3rd round revenues, cash strapped sens could become a thing of the past, and we could see a cap team in Ottawa, like we did when Melnyk originally came on board. Maybe I'm being naïve to think that the team's budget is tied to it's revenue, or that we'd be willing to project based on 2nd and third rounds and take on the risk of revenue shortfalls from being ousted in the 1st.

I'd be more confident if our regular season attendance weren't in a slump despite being competitive this season.

 

[aragorn]

What a rarity for a player to play his best with 2 elite linemates

It's also pretty impressive that without O'Reilly, the only guy he's apparently ever found chemistry with, that he's managed 45 goals in a year and a half.
Also, when I think O'Reilly, I think of a very smart, two way forward with good passing and scoring abilities. Sounds a lot like Mark Stone...

Duchene's a great player, not elite and not the type of player that can carry a team, but he can be a very nice piece on any team. He's an elite skater, he's turned into an elite faceoff man [59% the last year and a half], and he plays well in all situations.

The price will be too high right now, though. I can't see Colorado trading him or Landeskog for anything other than an over the top offer as of now since there's no rush with both of them under contract for the next few years.

O'Reilly was the guy I really wanted Ottawa to get at the time. Having two Mark Stones would really improve this forward group.

 

[Micklebot]

I'd be more confident if our regular season attendance weren't in a slump despite being competitive this season.

I guess the question would be how much of an effect that has in revenue. Papering the attendance figures by giving out freebies in prior years does little to increase revenue, but for example, those club bell seats being sold off at a premium does.

Obviously, more attendance is a good thing, regardless of whether the tickets are discounted or even given away, particularly for parking and concession stands, but without the books, I really have no clue to what degree this year's faltering attendance numbers

 

[doubledown99]

Some of you guys are overating Landeskog. Solid player but I think he's more of a 2nd liner. I watch him lots out here in the west and he's becoming less effective each season as he goes less and less into the hard areas. His first few seasons he was good. He went to the dirty areas to score. But I'm seeing it less and less in the last 2 years.

I think some of you are remembering him being dominant with the Rangers in the OHL (and you guys had a real shot at drafting him that year so played close attention). He isn't the same player now IMO.

Duchene is better and I think would flourish with the Sens and in the East. He's probably better than what some of you are stating. As an Oiler fan that watched and loved Hall to death Duchene vs Hall....Duchene is better IMO. And you all know how good Hall is (I think.....).

 

[NyQuil]

What I like about Duchene is that he can flat-out skate.

I always have time for skaters on my team.

 

[danielpalfredsson]

Some of you guys are overating Landeskog. Solid player but I think he's more of a 2nd liner. I watch him lots out here in the west and he's becoming less effective each season as he goes less and less into the hard areas. His first few seasons he was good. He went to the dirty areas to score. But I'm seeing it less and less in the last 2 years.

I think some of you are remembering him being dominant with the Rangers in the OHL (and you guys had a real shot at drafting him that year so played close attention). He isn't the same player now IMO.

Duchene is better and I think would flourish with the Sens and in the East. He's probably better than what some of you are stating. As an Oiler fan that watched and loved Hall to death Duchene vs Hall....Duchene is better IMO. And you all know how good Hall is (I think.....).

Duchene is better. I think Landeskog is a better pick up when looking at what we already have. With that said, there's no universe where I give up 1st+roster player+Chabot for Landeskog. I agree completely he is being overvalued. But at the same time, I think a team will pay up what COL is asking, I just don't want it to be Ottawa.

 

[doubledown99]

Duchene is better. I think Landeskog is a better pick up when looking at what we already have. With that said, there's no universe where I give up 1st+roster player+Chabot for Landeskog. I agree completely he is being overvalued. But at the same time, I think a team will pay up what COL is asking, I just don't want it to be Ottawa.

Yeah that is crazy to offer for Landeskog. To me a fair offer for him would be 1st + Brown or something. I know he will go for more. He has the intangibles that people covet and he is gritty. But if I was a Sens fan I would be pissed if my team traded Chabot or White in a package for Landeskog.

For Duchene I would do it (trade one of Chabot or White). Not for Landeskog

But we all value different things and see players differently so have to respect one another's opinions

p.s. My value of Brown may be way off. I haven't seen him play since last year in the OHL and at that time I saw the potential but also saw the flaws....I wasn't the biggest Brown fan at the time so that might be clouding my judgment with my offers