Salary Cap: 2016-17 roster-building part IV | Contract chart, cap info in post #1

[PensandCaps]

Lol yak? Hes the solution for geno?

 

[Shady Machine]

Lol yak? Hes the solution for geno?

No he's the solution for Sid. We are trading Hornqvist for him.

 

[KIRK]

I'm just trying to be realistic. You keep talking about the type of fits for Geno. Kuhn is your Malone, Talbot, Kunitz guy and Sprong is your Sykora, Neal.

It's not ideal but it's the type of fit that can work with him. Obviously it would involve Sprong being ready for the show and Kuhn taking another step, but it's not unheard of.

Obviously I'd prefer your scenario.

XXXX-Sid-Horny
XXXX-Geno-'kid'
HBK
Kuhn-Cullen-Rust (Cullen @ 1.5M)
Kid

Maatta-Letang
Daley-Dumo
Cole-Schultz (Schultz @ 2.5M)
XXXX

Murray
XXXX

That team right there is at about 61.5M witha little rounding up and the retention on Scuds. Figure the backup goalie and defenseman run you 4M on the high end. You're at 65.5M. All depends upon where the cap comes out IMO . . . if the players agree to the escalator (or whatever it's called) as usual, then the cap will be about 74M. You won't get two studs, but you can do right enough by Sid and Geno that they're truly playing with less rather than unreasonably less.

 

[KIRK]

Those wingers don't just grow on trees. Go find me them.

People have mentioned Frolik or a guy like that as part of your Fleury deal. Put a guy like that with Geno and find the right kid to fit, and you know that's a legit #1 line that will see third pairings.

And this is going to sound nuts coming from me, but Kunitz will be a sell high scenario this summer. You won't get a stud, but you'll get a guy of a caliber and complement for Sid and Horny that Sid will have more than he's had since 2008.

If they'll move Fleury, Kunitz, and Fehr, there's room to make it work if you're looking for Hagelin impact.

 

[Shady Machine]

XXXX-Sid-Horny
XXXX-Geno-'kid'
HBK
Kuhn-Cullen-Rust (Cullen @ 1.5M)
Kid

Maatta-Letang
Daley-Dumo
Cole-Schultz (Schultz @ 2.5M)
XXXX

Murray
XXXX

That team right there is at about 61.5M witha little rounding up and the retention on Scuds. Figure the backup goalie and defenseman run you 4M on the high end. You're at 65.5M. All depends upon where the cap comes out IMO . . . if the players agree to the escalator (or whatever it's called) as usual, then the cap will be about 74M. You won't get two studs, but you can do right enough by Sid and Geno that they're truly playing with less rather than unreasonably less.

You are making the assumption that we can trade Kunitz, Fleury, Fehr and only get back the solutions to Sid and Geno's wings in the trades (from a cap perspective). That's not an easy job to do.

Also, which kid do you want with Geno? Does the type of kid you put there impact what winger you go after for Geno's wing? These are all factors to think about.

 

[TimmyD]

Judging by last night I think Fleury is going to ask for a trade. Everytime the camera showed him he looked unhappy and like he was sulking because Sully decided to bench him instead of coddling him. Ithe wouldn't bother me if he did because his play is the reason he was benched, but I do think it's a legit possibility he isn't here next year. Does anyone know of any good backups available in free agency?

 

[DegenX]

So, forget Tarasenko. Put Horny back in. Put a kid in the top 6. Now you have 15M for a backup goalie and a winger for Sid and a winger for Geno.

Ergo, the Pens could have 3 #1 lines next season. Legit ones.

I think Geno would be a non-starter for the Pens, his current status with a certain segment of this board not withstanding. You'd really rather have Horny than Tarasenko? That it would mean we wouldn't have 3 legit top lines? OK, man.

Like I said, the Blues would be foolish to trade Tarasenko. It was just a thought that hadn't been explored, so I thought I'd bring it into the conversation.

 

[Shady Machine]

People have mentioned Frolik or a guy like that as part of your Fleury deal. Put a guy like that with Geno and find the right kid to fit, and you know that's a legit #1 line that will see third pairings.

And this is going to sound nuts coming from me, but Kunitz will be a sell high scenario this summer. You won't get a stud, but you'll get a guy of a caliber and complement for Sid and Horny that Sid will have more than he's had since 2008.

If they'll move Fleury, Kunitz, and Fehr, there's room to make it work if you're looking for Hagelin impact.

Yup I like the Frolik idea. Frolik is the versatile enough that it could be Wilson, Kuhn, Rust, Sprong, or Guentzel as the other winger and it probably won't matter a ton.

As for Sid, I don't know who it is. People seem to like Boedker, but he's going to cost a ton.

Maybe we can find a Kunitz+ for top 6 winger.

 

[Shady Machine]

I think Geno would be a non-starter for the Pens, his current status with a certain segment of this board not withstanding. You'd really rather have Horny than Tarasenko? That it would mean we wouldn't have 3 legit top lines? OK, man.

Like I said, the Blues would be foolish to trade Tarasenko. It was just a thought that hadn't been explored, so I thought I'd bring it into the conversation.

It would have to take a massive plus on top of Hornqvist to make it happen. Something like Hornqvist+Sprong+Pouliot. Maybe not quite that high, but damn close.

 

[PensandCaps]

It would have to take a massive plus on top of Hornqvist to make it happen. Something like Hornqvist+Sprong+Pouliot. Maybe not quite that high, but damn close.

Keep adding.....alot.

 

[KIRK]

Yup I like the Frolik idea. Frolik is the versatile enough that it could be Wilson, Kuhn, Rust, Sprong, or Guentzel as the other winger and it probably won't matter a ton.

As for Sid, I don't know who it is. People seem to like Boedker, but he's going to cost a ton.

Maybe we can find a Kunitz+ for top 6 winger.

Depends on the plus and maybe it takes a little retention, but yeah. It won't be easy, but there's a window where it's doable. I just think that's a smarter approach that shooting the load on a Boeddker or even Okposo or a defenseman.

 

[pistolpete11]

Saw this transcription from a recent Friedman radio spot and thought it was interesting.



He mentions his usage and that he hasn't really been a factor since the first round. He says he has no specific knowledge beyond hearing rumors and that he can't imagine him not being part of the team's future plans, but at the same time he has to wonder.

Not much of a rumor, I guess, but man, I'd like him on the Pens. I'd like that a lot.

Is it just me or is someone always in Hitch's doghouse? It's like he's HFB posters all rolled into one human who has to have their favorite whipping boy.

 

[KIRK]

It would have to take a massive plus on top of Hornqvist to make it happen. Something like Hornqvist+Sprong+Pouliot. Maybe not quite that high, but damn close.

It would take more.

 

[Winger for Hire]

We need to learn from the HBK line.

It doesn't have to be superstars or guys with name recognition or signings that "win the offseason" for Sid and Geno; it has to be the right fit.

 

[KIRK]

I think Geno would be a non-starter for the Pens, his current status with a certain segment of this board not withstanding. You'd really rather have Horny than Tarasenko? That it would mean we wouldn't have 3 legit top lines? OK, man.

Like I said, the Blues would be foolish to trade Tarasenko. It was just a thought that hadn't been explored, so I thought I'd bring it into the conversation.

I'm saying we're not getting Tarasenko, which you did too in the end, no? And my point about Malkin was it's less unlikely that STL trades Tarasenko to us than we trade Malkin to them.

So, since we're not getting him, I'd rather add two wingers than spend the buck on a 5-6M forward or a 5-6M defenseman. Add a Hagelin type impact/cost guy with Sid and Horny. Give me a Frolik for Geno. And IMO we're good to go.

We need to learn from the HBK line.

It doesn't have to be superstars or guys with name recognition or signings that "win the offseason" for Sid and Geno; it has to be the right fit.

If we could clone Hagelin, then we'd have the right fit for Sid and Horny.

Geno? As I said, I like the Frolik talk. You figure out which of the kids fits/earns the spot on the other wing. If it's a Kuhn or a Sprong, either type could fit. With Hagelin type with Sid and Horny and HBK, this Geno line is going to see the third easiest matchups anyway.

 

[PensandCaps]

It would take more.

Id trade geno straight up for tarensanko.

 

[Zero Pucks]

I guess my point was that I'd rather trade for the LW'er and sign one of Demers/Gogo over signing Boedker and trading for a Dman. Honestly, I'm not convinced we even need another top 4 dman. I'm just saying, if JR and Co. want to go that route, I'd rather sign Demers than Boedker and then trade Kunitz, Fleury, Pouliot in some combination to get that winger.

I'm just not convinced with Boedker and it seems likely to me he re-signs in Colorado.

What wingers do you have in mind to target in a trade then? You rarely get an opportunity to get players like Boedker and Okposo in free agency and meanwhile most teams will going hard after Stamkos and Backes. Are we really going to find a team that's going to trade us a player better than Boeker? We should go after the best player we can. Maybe I'm undervaluing Demers a bit, but I think it'll be much easier to get a defenseman that caliber through trade.

 

[KIRK]

Id trade geno straight up for tarensanko.

It would take more.

 

[Riptide]

I'd definatly offersheet Kreider, Rangers would have to match and be in severe cap hell or let him come to us and get some picks.

Rangers have something like 18m in cap space. Even if they give Kreider 5m (and it would prob take at least that to get them to pass on an OS), they're still fine. It only starts to get tight if they resign Yandle to an expensive FA deal.

If we offer sheet Kreidr and sign him then we have those assets for another deal.

I say give lovejoy a 2 yr deal two way.

Yeah that's a good line rush. I just think Krieders game brings a lot to side...locking him into say a 4 year bridge deal like maatta could prove to be a steal.

I say free up the money from fleury Kunitz maybe fehr maybe Cole lovejoy and you sign Krieder away from new York. They need picks badly. Maybe we even send them Kunitz

I'd use our the later of our 2 2nds for a rights to RFA deal.

We're only 2 guys up front and smart d corps building a way from multiple cup capability.

Also if we couldn't get Krieder would you take how many years of 31 year old ric nash only if nyr retained 50 percent.

Where to start...

First off, we can't offersheet someone until after July 1st - which means we've already used those picks (the 2nds) somewhere. Also, if you're going to offersheet someone, you must use your own picks as compensation.

Lovejoy is not going to "sign a two way deal". In fact he's going to get drastically overpaid. Something to the tune of 2.5-3.5m over 3 or 4 years.

I'm also curious as to why "needs picks badly". They have 3 top end prospects (F,D,G) and a lot of other prospects. Does it suck for them not having a 1st and a 2nd this year? Sure. But it's not the end of the world. And it certainly wouldn't prompt them to allow Kreider to get offersheeted.

Why would NYR retain 50% of Nash's salary? He's owed 16.2m over the next two seasons, and even in a down year was tied for the lead in their teams playoff scoring (pts and goals).

Getting Bogo, while it would be nice, is just as much of a pipe dream as getting Kreider or Drouin is. He's a top 3D signed to a good contract. Those guys rarely if ever get traded.

 

[PensandCaps]

It would take more.

Crosby?

 

[Coastal Kev]

I love you as much as I can love an anonymous message board poster. I wish more people stuck to their guns like this. Bravo.

That said, I still don't think Yak is going to be cheap enough to offset the risk of him being who he has shown to be.

Thank you

I'm thinking in terms of a multi player deal. Horny and Pouliot go to Edmonton.

There is great value in that trade for them. Pouliot is further along than any draft pick this year and has tremendous upside potential and Horny provides a warrior leader mentality for a young and up coming team.

Pittsburgh gets back Yakupov- gamble with a huge upside potential. I see him fitting like a glove with either of our top 2 centers.

And options: either their top 10 pick, or a later pick and say Darnell Nurse.

I like it

 

[Shady Machine]

What wingers do you have in mind to target in a trade then? You rarely get an opportunity to get players like Boedker and Okposo in free agency and meanwhile most teams will going hard after Stamkos and Backes. Are we really going to find a team that's going to trade us a player better than Boeker? We should go after the best player we can. Maybe I'm undervaluing Demers a bit, but I think it'll be much easier to get a defenseman that caliber through trade.

How much are you paying Boedker? He's a 30 point ES player per 82 in his career (33 points per 82 this year). Since he obviously won't be getting much PP time here, I don't think it's all that realistic that he breaks 50 points. How much is that worth to you?

As for trade targets, it depends on who we are trading. For Fleury, I like Frolik in Calagary and Janmark in Dallas. It really depends what team is interested in Fleury. If Dallas wants him, we'd have to take one of their goalies back. To me, those guys have negative trade value in that situation so they'd have to really pay me to take one of them.

If Pouliot is on the move, I think LA could be a fit so I'd ask for Pearson.

 

[PensandCaps]

Thank you

I'm thinking in terms of a multi player deal. Horny and Pouliot go to Edmonton.

There is great value in that trade for them. Pouliot is further along than any draft pick this year and has tremendous upside potential and Horny provides a warrior leader mentality for a young and up coming team.

Pittsburgh gets back Yakupov- gamble with a huge upside potential. I see him fitting like a glove with either of our top 2 centers.

And options: either their top 10 pick, or a later pick and say Darnell Nurse.

I like it

Sooo horny for nurse and yak....
Do the oilers even need another winger? Do we really want to get rid of the only winger who does well with sid on our team? And most of all, the oilers will not be trading any good dmen, because they need them.

 

[Riptide]

They might want to suck it up in order to have a goalie that would help them get to the playoffs, where they'll make money. After those 2 years, he's off the books.

But i would agree it's a big if. Say they move Anderson and now have room for fleury, what do you think of the value of what i proposed?

Anderson is not the reason why they're not in the playoffs this year. Their team up front just isn't good enough. Moving Hoffman for MAF doesn't change that - and in fact would only make it worse.

 

[Shady Machine]

Id trade geno straight up for tarensanko.

I wouldn't. Not unless you had a plan to find a 2C somewhere else. Center is the more important position and Geno controls the play when he is on the ice with competent wingers. Tarasenko can take over a game, but he's been far too invisible for my liking.