WJC: 2016 — USA Roster Talk

[YMCMBYOLO]

At this point its probably best to assume Chychrun never plays for the US, if he ever does its a bonus.

What I find funny about the Chychrun situation is the media spin on it. He "feels Canadian" and "identifies with being Canadian" because his parents are Canadian and he spent summers there. OK, this kid grew up on the beach in Florida, he couldn't be more American. I've coached dozens of American kids with Canadian parents and even NHL Canadian fathers, and Ive never heard one of them say they are Canadian, or they feel Canadian.

My take is that the old man was butt hurt his kid couldn't play in the USHL as a 15 year old. He was a fixture at USA camps prior to this. A journeyman NHL defenseman that never donned the maple leaf gets to live vicariously through his kid. Canadian NHL hall of famers stay in the US, and their kids allegiance is to the US. Ryan MacInnis, and the Bourques as a quick example. So you can do want you want, I just find the reasoning funny with Chychrun.

Its as comically as if Walman spun playing for the US as "feeling American" because he attends college there, even though he spent the majority of his life in Toronto, aside from some summer visits to the States. When everyone knows its because it would have been an easier team to make.

Would I take Walman based on a technicality? Yes, but I wouldn't say he's American, or try to justify it any more than its a technicality and he had the option of playing on 2 teams.

Classic example of American superiority

 

[Rabid Ranger]

Dead giveaway the writer doesn't know anything about the OHL.

You'd think a writer would know players' positions.

The writer is clearly more familiar with the NCAA but I think does a good job identifying the write pieces for a U.S. team that will have a lot of talent up front but questions marks on defense and in goal.

 

[Mehar]

At this point its probably best to assume Chychrun never plays for the US, if he ever does its a bonus.

What I find funny about the Chychrun situation is the media spin on it. He "feels Canadian" and "identifies with being Canadian" because his parents are Canadian and he spent summers there. OK, this kid grew up on the beach in Florida, he couldn't be more American. I've coached dozens of American kids with Canadian parents and even NHL Canadian fathers, and Ive never heard one of them say they are Canadian, or they feel Canadian.

My take is that the old man was butt hurt his kid couldn't play in the USHL as a 15 year old. He was a fixture at USA camps prior to this. A journeyman NHL defenseman that never donned the maple leaf gets to live vicariously through his kid. Canadian NHL hall of famers stay in the US, and their kids allegiance is to the US. Ryan MacInnis, and the Bourques as a quick example. So you can do want you want, I just find the reasoning funny with Chychrun.

Its as comically as if Walman spun playing for the US as "feeling American" because he attends college there, even though he spent the majority of his life in Toronto, aside from some summer visits to the States. When everyone knows its because it would have been an easier team to make.

Would I take Walman based on a technicality? Yes, but I wouldn't say he's American, or try to justify it any more than its a technicality and he had the option of playing on 2 teams.

To make it simpler for everyone, the IIHF should have a rule that if you are a dual citizen, it is best that you play for the country "your father" was born in. It makes things simpler, less complex, and fair for everyone involved. If they do not agree with this rule, then they should give up their dual citizenship. This rule would be fair for everyone involved, especially Hockey Canada.

Anyways, back to the roster talk for Team USA, even with no Walman, i like this American team. Great up front, and i frankly think that their goaltending and defense are underrated, and not the black holes everyone claims it is. No reason why they cannot reach the Gold Medal Game.

 

[UsernameWasTaken]

To make it simpler for everyone, the IIHF should have a rule that if you are a dual citizen, it is best that you play for the country "your father" was born in. It makes things simpler, less complex, and fair for everyone involved. If they do not agree with this rule, then they should give up their dual citizenship. This rule would be fair for everyone involved, especially Hockey Canada.

Anyways, back to the roster talk for Team USA, even with no Walman, i like this American team. Great up front, and i frankly think that their goaltending and defense are underrated, and not the black holes everyone claims it is. No reason why they cannot reach the Gold Medal Game.

How is it "fair" for IIHF to force dual citizens to claim citizenship through their father or give up dual citizenship? That sounds like a terrible idea.

 

[William H Bonney]

Solid write-up on the potential U.S. squad: http://www.sbncollegehockey.com/2015/12/2/9831728/2016-united-states-world-juniors-roster-prediction

Agree that this is really close to what we may see.

That's a great write-up.

I'm really surprised any of you found that to be a good write-up. There were a litany of issues:

For a very deep US forward group, they are extremely thin up the middle.

What? It's only extremely thin if you're comparing it against what it could have been with Eichel and Larkin. But even then, this isn't an extremely thin center group, especially when you read his next sentence about Matthews being the top player (and our top center) in the tournament, which is followed by high praise for the best freshman in college hockey in White, who happens to be one of our other top 3 centers for this team. Never mind that he mentions the possibility of slotting a winger that isn't a "natural center" in the position (Roslovic), goes on to instead slot a another natural winger that occasionally plays center (Debrincat) at the position with no mention of that fact, or neglects to even discuss two other primary options (Dvorak, Schmaltz) for the position they have actually played all year. Who knows what 4 centers USAH will end up choosing, or if they players they choose will perform well, but it's silly to call the position, on paper, "extremely thin."

I don't see a lot of other valid options. Turgeon and Eansor both got invited to the summer evaluation camp because there weren't any other options up the middle

This is an asinine statement as well and contradicts the very sentence that opens that paragraph. They were invited because they align with what "USA Hockey tries to do in building their team," not because there weren't "any other options" (i.e. more offensively talented centers available). One may not agree with the way USAH builds its team each year, but players like Turgeon and Eansor were invited to compete for a specific role on the team, the checking center of the "grind line" that's been integral to the team's recent successes. If you don't agree with that mindset, fine, but don't follow it up with a false statement on why two checking centers were at the camp when there are checking centers invited to summer camp every year.

I gave Dvorak the nod for the final spot because he's having a great year, and I want a team with more speed and offensive ability that size and grit.

What? He starts by complaining about an "extremely thin" center group, but goes on to choose a natural center who's "having a great year" and has "more speed and offensive ability" at a position (LW) that he contends has "so many good options" instead. Why wouldn't you consider Dvorak as a viable candidate to help in the "extremely thin" center spot and pick one of the other good options at LW instead?

And on and on.

 

[Rabid Ranger]

Fair points. I thought his choices for the final roster are sound though.

 

[Dodospice]

I'm by no means a Team USA expert but I used the camp invites from William H Bonney a few pages back to predict what they will do.. This isn't what I would do if I were USA but what I project them to do.

Milano- Matthews- Tuch
Tkachuk- Dvorak- Schmaltz
Connor- White- Boeser
Foley- Eansor- Bjork
Roslovic (feel free to slot any of Schmaltz, Boeser, Roslovic in here)

Werenski- Carlo
Jones- Collins
Fortunato- McAvoy
Belpedio (could also see McAvoy here with Collins playing with Fortunato and Jones with Belpedio)

Halverson
Nedeljkovic
Sarthou

 

[NTDP]

I'm really surprised any of you found that to be a good write-up. There were a litany of issues:

For a very deep US forward group, they are extremely thin up the middle.

What? It's only extremely thin if you're comparing it against what it could have been with Eichel and Larkin. But even then, this isn't an extremely thin center group, especially when you read his next sentence about Matthews being the top player (and our top center) in the tournament, which is followed by high praise for the best freshman in college hockey in White, who happens to be one of our other top 3 centers for this team. Never mind that he mentions the possibility of slotting a winger that isn't a "natural center" in the position (Roslovic), goes on to instead slot a another natural winger that occasionally plays center (Debrincat) at the position with no mention of that fact, or neglects to even discuss two other primary options (Dvorak, Schmaltz) for the position they have actually played all year. Who knows what 4 centers USAH will end up choosing, or if they players they choose will perform well, but it's silly to call the position, on paper, "extremely thin."

I don't see a lot of other valid options. Turgeon and Eansor both got invited to the summer evaluation camp because there weren't any other options up the middle

This is an asinine statement as well and contradicts the very sentence that opens that paragraph. They were invited because they align with what "USA Hockey tries to do in building their team," not because there weren't "any other options" (i.e. more offensively talented centers available). One may not agree with the way USAH builds its team each year, but players like Turgeon and Eansor were invited to compete for a specific role on the team, the checking center of the "grind line" that's been integral to the team's recent successes. If you don't agree with that mindset, fine, but don't follow it up with a false statement on why two checking centers were at the camp when there are checking centers invited to summer camp every year.

I gave Dvorak the nod for the final spot because he's having a great year, and I want a team with more speed and offensive ability that size and grit.

What? He starts by complaining about an "extremely thin" center group, but goes on to choose a natural center who's "having a great year" and has "more speed and offensive ability" at a position (LW) that he contends has "so many good options" instead. Why wouldn't you consider Dvorak as a viable candidate to help in the "extremely thin" center spot and pick one of the other good options at LW instead?

And on and on.

I was more saying I like the players he chose, also like the off the wall guy he mentioned in Borgen. Having a really good year at St. Cloud and could potentially be used on this team. I see what you mean though.

 

[Dhockey16]

They should just be honest and announce the final roster in July because it's pretty clear they know who they want on the team well ahead of time - and that's not say it's necessarily a bad strategy, but it's disingenuous to let these players think their on-ice performance means a thing.

That Alex DeBrincat is seen as a borderline 4th liner is pretty clear evidence. This guy has dominated the best developmental hockey league in the world from his first game of the season and hasn't stopped. He's actually a surprisingly gritty player for his size so he probably could fill a slot in the bottom 6 admirably but it'd be an abject waste of talent.

As far as DeBrincat's relative skill is concerned, there is absolutely nothing of substance that would point towards Jack Roslovic being a better forward, yet I'm seeing multiple people put him in the top 6. The only forward on the team definitively better than him is Austin Matthews. Tkachuk and Dvorak have played all year on a line with Mitch Marner and they haven't produced like DeBrincat, who's been on a line with Strome for 1/2 of Erie's games at the very most. Although the benefit of those two playing together shouldn't be understated. Even with Sonny Milano being almost 2 years older there isn't very much he brings to the table that ADB doesn't bring beyond a few inches.

He's objectively better at hockey than Bracco, Connor, Bjork and most of the other guys listed. The only forwards Team USA couldn't comfortably replace with DeBrincat are Matthews, Tuch/Bittner and arguably Tkachuk. He should've guaranteed himself an invite with his play last season alone. He's better at scoring goals than any U20 player in the world not already being paid to play hockey and he might not crack the 4th line of a borderline medal contender. Put the kid on a line with Matthews and watch the goals pile up.

I understand these teams are molded in a certain image but as some point merit needs to override the ridiculous degree of preference given to College players/NTDP alum. It's USA Hockey's fault they missed this guy once and they seem hell-bent on doing it again. I'll cheer on Team USA no matter what, but I won't be disappointed if they trot out a lineup missing one of the best young Americans in the game only to get knocked out early on.

 

[Canada4Gold]

^no camp roster has been announced let alone a set of lines and you decided to freak out at USA hockey about the potential role of DeBrincat based on a bunch of HF posters guesses? Why would you do that exactly?

 

[Rabid Ranger]

I'm pretty sure DeBrincat will make the final eval camp roster. It will be up to him to make the final team.

 

[MeafAttack]

Team to be announced Fri during the presser at noon ? USA hockey being real secretive.

 

[Xokkeu]

How is it "fair" for IIHF to force dual citizens to claim citizenship through their father or give up dual citizenship? That sounds like a terrible idea.

Nothing is a terrible idea if it makes Jarome Iginla play for Nigeria.

 

[William H Bonney]

They should just be honest and announce the final roster in July because it's pretty clear they know who they want on the team well ahead of time - and that's not say it's necessarily a bad strategy, but it's disingenuous to let these players think their on-ice performance means a thing.

History since the December camp was instituted doesn't support your argument whatsoever.

Your point is obviously geared towards Debrincat, who should be at the upcoming camp where making the team, and in what role, is up to him, but I'm not sure why you're attributing the projected rosters of posters here as to what USAH will do with the team. The fact that posters don't have Debrincat on the team, or in a suitable role in your opinion, has no bearing on what will actually happen.

 

[Mickey the mouse]

Team to be announced Fri during the presser at noon ? USA hockey being real secretive.

I'm pretty sure that the Team will be announced next Tuesday.

If that's correct info then They will notify players current coaches on Monday

 

[DrJenniferHanson]

They haven't produced like DeBrincat

Dvorak - 2.23 PPG (1st OHL), 5.52 eP/60 (1st OHL)
DeBrincat - 2.04 PPG (4th OHL), 4.17 eP/60 (7th OHL)
Tkachuk - 2.00 PPG (5th OHL), 4.93 eP/60 (3rd OHL)

DeBrincat has outproduced Tkachuk but certainly not Dvorak.

Tkachuk and Dvorak have played all year on a line with Mitch Marner[....] DeBrincat, who's been on a line with Strome for 1/2 of Erie's games at the very most.

Tkachuk and Dvorak have only played with Marner for slightly more than half the year. In fact, the CHL stats website estimates DeBrincat has played with Strome at ES 1% more than Dvorak with Marner and 2% more than Tkachuk with Marner.

Your DeBrincat material is solid but you're factually incorrect with everything London-related in your post.

 

[NTDP]

Take point totals out of it, I think Tkachuk is the better all around hockey player when comparing himself and Debrincat. I like Debrincat but I'll say I think he's a 3rd liner on this team, and he should make it. Sure he's putting up points but he's not a better all around player than some of the top 6 guys we'll have on this team.

 

[UsernameWasTaken]

They should just be honest and announce the final roster in July because it's pretty clear they know who they want on the team well ahead of time - and that's not say it's necessarily a bad strategy, but it's disingenuous to let these players think their on-ice performance means a thing.

That Alex DeBrincat is seen as a borderline 4th liner is pretty clear evidence. This guy has dominated the best developmental hockey league in the world from his first game of the season and hasn't stopped. He's actually a surprisingly gritty player for his size so he probably could fill a slot in the bottom 6 admirably but it'd be an abject waste of talent.

As far as DeBrincat's relative skill is concerned, there is absolutely nothing of substance that would point towards Jack Roslovic being a better forward, yet I'm seeing multiple people put him in the top 6. The only forward on the team definitively better than him is Austin Matthews. Tkachuk and Dvorak have played all year on a line with Mitch Marner and they haven't produced like DeBrincat, who's been on a line with Strome for 1/2 of Erie's games at the very most. Although the benefit of those two playing together shouldn't be understated. Even with Sonny Milano being almost 2 years older there isn't very much he brings to the table that ADB doesn't bring beyond a few inches.

He's objectively better at hockey than Bracco, Connor, Bjork and most of the other guys listed. The only forwards Team USA couldn't comfortably replace with DeBrincat are Matthews, Tuch/Bittner and arguably Tkachuk. He should've guaranteed himself an invite with his play last season alone. He's better at scoring goals than any U20 player in the world not already being paid to play hockey and he might not crack the 4th line of a borderline medal contender. Put the kid on a line with Matthews and watch the goals pile up.

I understand these teams are molded in a certain image but as some point merit needs to override the ridiculous degree of preference given to College players/NTDP alum. It's USA Hockey's fault they missed this guy once and they seem hell-bent on doing it again. I'll cheer on Team USA no matter what, but I won't be disappointed if they trot out a lineup missing one of the best young Americans in the game only to get knocked out early on.

Lol, DeBrincat has played four more games than Dvorak. His PPG is lower. And Dvorak is miles ahead of DeBrincat defensively.

 

[nelsojc]

I've never seen DeBrincat play live...I know he has elite goal scoring ability but how good of a skater is he? Anybody watched him live who can comment? Seeing as it is on international ice this year that could be a deciding factor.

 

[pavelich]

History since the December camp was instituted doesn't support your argument whatsoever.

Your point is obviously geared towards Debrincat, who should be at the upcoming camp where making the team, and in what role, is up to him, but I'm not sure why you're attributing the projected rosters of posters here as to what USAH will do with the team. The fact that posters don't have Debrincat on the team, or in a suitable role in your opinion, has no bearing on what will actually happen.

Great point.

Unless you've seen every Providence, Erie, Lake Erie Monsters, Yale, Miami, London, North Dakota, ZSC Lions, BU etc etc etc game this season you have a very limited idea of what USAH will do.

 

[NTDP]

I've never seen DeBrincat play live...I know he has elite goal scoring ability but how good of a skater is he? Anybody watched him live who can comment? Seeing as it is on international ice this year that could be a deciding factor.

I live 2 hours from there, have seen about 15 Otter games over the past three years. He can get up and go. I just think where he lacks is his board play and his aggressiveness on the defensive side of the puck. He also does a good job of creeping into an area when he is away from the puck to capitalize on an odd man rush or around the hashmarks for a pass. Strome and McDavid only helped in that regard because of their vision and passing ability by drawing defenders to them. Debrincat can create on his own don't get me wrong.

 

[Ward Cornell]

I live 2 hours from there, have seen about 15 Otter games over the past three years. He can get up and go. I just think where he lacks is his board play and his aggressiveness on the defensive side of the puck. He also does a good job of creeping into an area when he is away from the puck to capitalize on an odd man rush or around the hashmarks for a pass. Strome and McDavid only helped in that regard because of their vision and passing ability by drawing defenders to them. Debrincat can create on his own don't get me wrong.

Seen him play about 8 times the last 2 years and IMHO Debrincat could make every team in this tourney.
This opinion is based on faithfully watching every WJHC tourney the last 30+ years and attending 3 of them.
But I can't speak for his competition that isn't in the OHL.

But will he make Team USA?.....

 

[Rabid Ranger]

Seen him play about 8 times the last 2 years and IMHO Debrincat could and make every team in this tourney.
This opinion is based on faithfully watching every WJHC tourney the last 30+ years and attending 3 of them.
But I can't speak for his competition that isn't in the OHL.

But will he make Team USA?.....

I think what it comes down to is will he play in the top 6/9 of the U.S. team? There's a lot of talented players at forward and he has competition. It's pretty humorous that the top scorers for both the OHL and QMJHL could very well not make the final U.S. roster. Garland might not even get an invite to the camp.

 

[Morry83]

Roslovic in the top 6 is also for line chemistry reasons.

 

[nelsojc]

I think what it comes down to is will he play in the top 6/9 of the U.S. team? There's a lot of talented players at forward and he has competition. It's pretty humorous that the top scorers for both the OHL and QMJHL could very well not make the final U.S. roster. Garland might not even get an invite to the camp.

I still think this will be such a dumb move to not at least bring them to the camp. The trend for the other top teams like Finland and Canada will be to have skill and high end goal scorers all the way down to the fourth line. That's what Canada recently did for not only the Olympics, but the last world championships and the world juniors as well ...and they won gold every time.