WJC: 2016 — Canada Roster Talk (Part IV)

[199991]

Sure Marner is not that bad, he's pretty good in fact. But he can be a lot better than that, like a bunch of other Canada players.
He has to make things happen more. He has to go in scoring areas more and playing less on the outside.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

I don't get the hate either, but he was not good yesterday. If he was "meh" in game 1, he was definitely "meh" yesterday. Game 2 he was excellent indeed.

I don't think its hate, we are all Team Canada fans. Virtanen is getting more heat, Hicketts was too. Its expectations, because Marner is supposed to be one of the players leading this team, but he is being outshone by Strome and Barzal in the 1st 3 games. Crouse in last game now also.

To me Marner has to simplify his game. Use puck movement and vision to create quality plays. Don't overhandle the puck or try to make everything a masterpiece. It's as simple as that. What he does in London does not work in a tournament like this.

One thing that would help next year if he plays as a 19 year old in this tourney, he needs to get stronger. He gets outmuscled off the puck far too much. But for now, simplicity and shorter shifts where he can use his high motor for a sustained 40 seconds would be better than 1+ mins shifts where play is less intense.

Marner has the talent to do these things, as with others like Virtanen. You hope for Canada's sake, they will be better as the games get more important.

 

[Blender]

Lol @ the Marner hate. He's been very good IMO and is easily one of the top forwards on the team, especially when it comes to sustained pressure.

Game 1: Meh by his standards
Game 2: Excellent
Game 3: Good

So anyone who doesn't think Marner has played up to standards is just saying so out of hate? Right....

He's not being compared to guys expected to full 3rd or 4th line roles here, he's being compared to other expected top players like Strome, Matthews, Puljujarvi, Laine, Nylander (either one), etc.

Sure Marner has 3 points which is ok, but it's his overall play that people have an issue with. It's not about focusing on he box score, it's about what he does every shift. He'll have some amazing shifts where he creates a lot and looks fantastic, and a lot of shifts where he coughs the puck up too much, loses puck battles, etc. There is no doubt that he's working hard, but he just hasn't been up to the standard expected of a top player. Marner needs to play a simpler game, make safe plays, be strong on the puck, etc. He's doing none of that right now on regular basis.

He's not been better than Strome, Barzal, Point, Gauthier, or Crouse in overall play.

 

[Atomos2]

At some point they just have to go with what's working. Strome is playing well, Barzal is playing well. There is no need to mess with what is working for them in order to accommodate another player.

I'm not willing to call Lowry a full Spott yet. That's an exalted level of ineptitude. Have to see what happens in the upcoming games. It is alarming to see the inability to find chemistry, manage ice time or utilize the right players once again.

Some players may be playing well but i'd hardly call that something thats been 'workin'. The team as a whole hasnt been playing well and havent had the results we expect. Are you really that content to leave things as they are? We barely beat the swiss.

 

[X66]

So anyone who doesn't think Marner has played up to standards is just saying so out of hate? Right....
.

There is fair criticism, and there is the criticism that is in the threads during the games.

 

[islandermaniac]

So anyone who doesn't think Marner has played up to standards is just saying so out of hate? Right....

He's not being compared to guys expected to full 3rd or 4th line roles here, he's being compared to other expected top players like Strome, Matthews, Puljujarvi, Laine, Nylander (either one), etc.

Sure Marner has 3 points which is ok, but it's his overall play that people have an issue with. It's not about focusing on he box score, it's about what he does every shift. He'll have some amazing shifts where he creates a lot and looks fantastic, and a lot of shifts where he coughs the puck up too much, loses puck battles, etc. There is no doubt that he's working hard, but he just hasn't been up to the standard expected of a top player. Marner needs to play a simpler game, make safe plays, be strong on the puck, etc. He's doing none of that right now on regular basis.

He's not been better than Strome, Barzal, Point, Gauthier, or Crouse in overall play.

I was with you until you said point's name. He has done virtually nothing.

 

[Peasy]

So anyone who doesn't think Marner has played up to standards is just saying so out of hate? Right....

He's not being compared to guys expected to full 3rd or 4th line roles here, he's being compared to other expected top players like Strome, Matthews, Puljujarvi, Laine, Nylander (either one), etc.

Sure Marner has 3 points which is ok, but it's his overall play that people have an issue with. It's not about focusing on he box score, it's about what he does every shift. He'll have some amazing shifts where he creates a lot and looks fantastic, and a lot of shifts where he coughs the puck up too much, loses puck battles, etc. There is no doubt that he's working hard, but he just hasn't been up to the standard expected of a top player. Marner needs to play a simpler game, make safe plays, be strong on the puck, etc. He's doing none of that right now on regular basis.

He's not been better than Strome, Barzal, Point, Gauthier, or Crouse in overall play.

When hes been playing with Point, hes the one often generating chances, and Point was doing nothing the games without him. Then you include a guy thats been the 13th forward, and played like 4 mins in one game because he was sick.

Crouse could be a toss up, he finally had a good game against the Swiss.

 

[Atomos2]

I was with you until you said point's name. He has done virtually nothing.

Yeah. Point doesnt deserve any kind of praise.

 

[Steazy Doo]

Point has been better then Marner

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

So they're all gassed half way through the third period like yesterday?

Lowry needs to do the opposite - distribute ice time more evenly.

The problem on the team is not its talent - it's mainly coaching and, to a lesser extent, the fact that some guys need to play a bit better.

Huh? People are getting foible shifted. And what's worse, staying out way to long. They are all playing as individuals. And if you are on the bench, watching guys take 2-3 minute shifts, it makes you mad. So then when you finally do get out there, you do the same. It is a horrible way to coach. It's all on Lowry.

Running 4 lines and 3 pairing AND having 45 second shifts keeps everyone fresh and engaged in the game. That is Canada's advantage...depth. By having gassed players all the time, you slow the pVe down for inferior opponents. It makes it harder to score. And for the guys sitting for 16 straight minutes, they get cold on the bench and out of the game.

Shorten the bench later in the game if needed. But still keep the shifts short. That's just common sense. Only a dumbass puts out a guy for a 3 minute shift 4vs4 at this level of hockey.

Not much of an advantage when the coach only uses two lines and two pairings.

The point is that, if yesterday's line management is any indication, he'll receive significantly more ice time than the wingers on the Barzal and Stephens lines...all of whom have played much better than him so far, with the exception of Quenneville who has been pretty useless.

I said it earlier. If Lowry won't figure out his terrible mismanagement of players and ice-time then Canada will be in trouble. And we sall saw that yesterday against Switzerland.

I think Konecny didn't have a single shift in 3rd period... Beauvillier, Konecny, Gauthier, Barzal they all should play more and with better line mates. Canada's lines should be way more balanced in terms of ice-time although Lowry is overplaying some of his top players against Switzerland.

Another example is Sanheim, when he had chance, he was outstanding offensively. But no, it is Hicketts who played 4 minutes in overtime or everytime on PP.

It really is a joke at this point. Lowry is worse than Berube.

the main reason we look so bad is COACHING period!!
How can you develop chemistry when you are constantly being shifted from line to line.
No line that has started a game has stayed together for the whole game since this tournament started. Lowry is a dummy!

Its like lowry sees that a line has a bad shift and then says hey lets change that line. Very poor coaching.

Does anyone remember team Canada's most recent gold medal at the Olympics? Those guys took 30 second shifts. They fired over the boards. They were all in the game. Teams could barely get the puck from them. The result? They won.

This tournament is nothing like that TEAM FIRST mentality. Being an islander fan, I've been watching Barzal and saw that he didn't get his second shift in the middle stanza until the period was half over. That is just stupid. At this point, I don't even care who plays, but the shifts MUST be cut in half!! This is where coaching is important. Does the coach have the guts to park kids on the bench who won't buy in to the team first mentality? Or are these long shifts the coach's plan? Either way, the current situation is atrocious and needs to be addressed. Look no further than the gold medal Olympic team for a "how to" lesson on shift length.

Lowry is an idiot. He panics way to early.. shortens his bench and loses advantage and overall effectiveness of his team. How do you build chemistry playing half your players 90% of the time.

BS .... Sutter would have these guys rolling by now. Terrible , just fn terrible coaching.

 

[Peasy]

Point has been better then Marner

Marner has been better than Point.

 

[Steazy Doo]

Marner has been better than Point.

They both aren't playing as good as they should be so it doesn't really matter I suppose.

 

[Peasy]

They both aren't playing as good as they should be so it doesn't really matter I suppose.

Personally, I'd expect more out of the returning 19 year old player.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

Point has been disappointing, he did score a big shootout goal to help us into the 1/4 finals, but I sure expected more since he was tearing up the WHL in scoring. The only excuse I can give him is his timing is off from his injury or he is infact still injured. Both he and Marner are in the same boat as I see it. He has points in the tourney, but the overall play is not nearly as good as Strome or Barzal or even some others that are coming on.

 

[X66]

But it's the same thing every year, it's almost as if people forgot that they watched the tournament the year before...

Marner has hockey games left to 'get going'.

McDavid after the first 3 games last year had 3 points, including going scoreless in 2 of the 3 games.

Lazar had 2 points in 3 games.

Duclair had 4 points after 3 games, Domi and Reinhart had 5 after 3, but they also played weaker teams IMO in those games and it wasn't on bigger ice either.

Marner, Strome and Barzal have been fine, and each one of them can be better.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

But it's the same thing every year, it's almost as if people forgot that they watched the tournament the year before...

Marner has hockey games left to 'get going'.

McDavid after the first 3 games last year had 3 points, including going scoreless in 2 of the 3 games.

Lazar had 2 points in 3 games.

Duclair had 4 points after 3 games, Domi and Reinhart had 5 after 3, but they also played weaker teams IMO in those games and it wasn't on bigger ice either.

Marner, Strome and Barzal have been fine, and each one of them can be better.

Sure if we were just commenting on points or boxscore watching. We are commenting on the overall play of players from the televised games. It is easy to observe who Team Canada's most effective players that are playing to expectations.

 

[X66]

Sure if we were just commenting on points or boxscore watching. We are commenting on the overall play of players from the televised games. It is easy to observe who Team Canada's most effective players that are playing to expectations.

Sure, I've watched every game and can tell you Marner has played better than Point. Marner is still creating more offensive chances than most players on the team(as he should), and he's done well at sustaining pressure as well. Not one and done like Barzal, although I like Barzal's tournament so far.

 

[Bloomberg]

But it's the same thing every year, it's almost as if people forgot that they watched the tournament the year before...

Marner has hockey games left to 'get going'.

McDavid after the first 3 games last year had 3 points, including going scoreless in 2 of the 3 games.

Lazar had 2 points in 3 games.

Duclair had 4 points after 3 games, Domi and Reinhart had 5 after 3, but they also played weaker teams IMO in those games and it wasn't on bigger ice either.

Marner, Strome and Barzal have been fine, and each one of them can be better.

I really don't see Marner "get going" playing with Point. I'm sorry.

 

[X66]

I really don't see Marner "get going" playing with Point. I'm sorry.

That's why Marner should be the center on the line

 

[dmacgreg37]

Personally, I'd expect more out of the returning 19 year old player.

Agreed. Point has somehow been avoiding a lot of criticism, and I don't get it.. He has been very poor. If he's hurt, he shouldn't be there. Otherwise, he needs to perform.

 

[X66]

Agreed. Point has somehow been avoiding a lot of criticism, and I don't get it.. He has been very poor. If he's hurt, he shouldn't be there. Otherwise, he needs to perform.

Exactly. He's been an anchor, which leads me to believe he is hurt.

 

[kk87]

So it looks like we're destined for third in the group, regardless of what happens against Sweden tomorrow. That would mean we would play the 2nd seed in Group B in the crossover, but what happens after that? Can anyone tell me who we would be in line to play in the semis? Would it be the winner of 1A-4B?

 

[The Winter Soldier]

Sure, I've watched every game and can tell you Marner has played better than Point. Marner is still creating more offensive chances than most players on the team(as he should), and he's done well at sustaining pressure as well. Not one and done like Barzal, although I like Barzal's tournament so far.

That's fine if that's your opinion. But some will say Point is. My Point(pun intended) is neither are playing to what Canada expected both to be in this tourney. They are in the same boat. Neither is substantially playing better than the other.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

Exactly. He's been an anchor, which leads me to believe he is hurt.

And to be fair, plays are dying on Marner's stick. He may make the occasional nice pass, but he is either outmuscled off the puck or his passes lead to nowhere after circling the zone. Point has not been great, so I am not excusing him either. But let's call it down the middle.

 

[PWJunior]

Sure, I've watched every game and can tell you Marner has played better than Point. Marner is still creating more offensive chances than most players on the team(as he should), and he's done well at sustaining pressure as well. Not one and done like Barzal, although I like Barzal's tournament so far.

Marner gets a ton of ice time, there would be something wrong if he wasn't generating chances over other people because he's out there ALL THE TIME with offensive zone faceoffs and PP time.