Prospect Info: 2015 Draft Thread

[YP44]

The top priority of this off season IMO is getting out of Richards contract without buying him out.
With that said I would like to see Richards packaged with our 1st to move back in the draft for a later first.
I look at Pearson and Kempe and know LA can draft a good player later in the first.

 

[damacles1156]

Seriously why is anyone really worried about the Richards buyout cap hit ?

It doesn't even go to 1.8 million retained till 2017. Then in 2019/20 to around 4 million for two years, then back down to 1.8 million for the remainder.

In 2019 Kopitar will be 32, Brown may be retired by then, Doughty will be 29, Quick may be retired as well by 2019 season. Carter will/may be retired as well.

The core will be done, the Cup window closed.

The Kings need to start drafting at these lottery pick spots, 1-15. Need the team to get cheaper/Younger/Faster.

 

[Fat Elvis]

My uneducated guess

Timo Meier or Kyle Connor 13th
Filip Ahl 43th
Graham Knott 74th or Nicolas Roy

Thomas Schemitsch 104th

13th is still the same with a possibly wild card in Jansen Harkins, maybe they move down a couple spots for Harkins and grab an extra 2nd or 3rd.

Still like Ahl with the 43rd but can see Alex Dergachyov, Jordon Greenway and Rasmus Andersson there too.
Graham Knott, Yakov Trenin, Blake Speers with the 74th

 

[Bee Sheriff]

Seriously why is anyone really worried about the Richards buyout cap hit ?

It doesn't even go to 1.8 million retained till 2017. Then in 2019/20 to around 4 million for two years, then back down to 1.8 million for the remainder.

In 2019 Kopitar will be 32, Brown may be retired by then, Doughty will be 29, Quick may be retired as well by 2019 season. Carter will/may be retired as well.

The core will be done, the Cup window closed.

The Kings need to start drafting at these lottery pick spots, 1-15. Need the team to get cheaper/Younger/Faster.

Agreed if our team success goes out along with the core but if we can continue to retool then it would be a big pain

 

[Mattias]

Seriously why is anyone really worried about the Richards buyout cap hit ?

It doesn't even go to 1.8 million retained till 2017. Then in 2019/20 to around 4 million for two years, then back down to 1.8 million for the remainder.

In 2019 Kopitar will be 32, Brown may be retired by then, Doughty will be 29, Quick may be retired as well by 2019 season. Carter will/may be retired as well.

The core will be done, the Cup window closed.

The Kings need to start drafting at these lottery pick spots, 1-15. Need the team to get cheaper/Younger/Faster.

Perfectly said. Given how many picks we have given out (and little returned), spending even more assets to rid Richard's cap space is just asinine.

 

[kingsfan]

Seriously why is anyone really worried about the Richards buyout cap hit ?

It doesn't even go to 1.8 million retained till 2017. Then in 2019/20 to around 4 million for two years, then back down to 1.8 million for the remainder.

In 2019 Kopitar will be 32, Brown may be retired by then, Doughty will be 29, Quick may be retired as well by 2019 season. Carter will/may be retired as well.

The core will be done, the Cup window closed.

The Kings need to start drafting at these lottery pick spots, 1-15. Need the team to get cheaper/Younger/Faster.

Firstly, Quick will turn 33 in 2019. I'd say there's a better chance of him being an elite starter still than retired at that age.

Secondly, while yes some of the core will be aging out, others should be coming in. We still should have a very good if not great defense and Toffoli will only be 27, Pearson as well. A 32 year old Kopitar isn't really much of a concern to me, I expect he'll still be doing well at that age. Barring some Mike Richards-style drop off, we will only be a few top two line forwards away from being a cup contender in 2019 as well, and DL has proven very adept at landing those types at the deadline, ala Gaborik and Carter. Our window will be wide open still potentially in 2019, a $4+ million cap hit for a buyout will greatly hinder that.

 

[kingsfan]

The top priority of this off season IMO is getting out of Richards contract without buying him out.
With that said I would like to see Richards packaged with our 1st to move back in the draft for a later first.
I look at Pearson and Kempe and know LA can draft a good player later in the first.

If you were the GM of another team, would you eat Richards contract and cap hit anchor to move up from 30th to 13th, which would be the maximum improvement under your scenario? I wouldn't.

 

[KingCanadain1976]

If you were the GM of another team, would you eat Richards contract and cap hit anchor to move up from 30th to 13th, which would be the maximum improvement under your scenario? I wouldn't.

I agree late first round maybe out of reach but a high 2nd and a 3rd line center might not be out of the question. I do agree with Perro getting rid of Richards without buying him out would be my first priority Handicapping the team with a buyout hit for 10 years is far to much imo Contenders need the space to make moves and we are contenders for the foreseeable future

 

[LAKings88]

I can't see any team trading for Richards unless his game picks up. I can see LA feeling him out at camp and accessing from there.

My guess is a buyout is a high probability at this point.

That being said, I would move the pick to be rid of his salary.

 

[kingsfan]

I agree late first round maybe out of reach but a high 2nd and a 3rd line center might not be out of the question. I do agree with Perro getting rid of Richards without buying him out would be my first priority Handicapping the team with a buyout hit for 10 years is far to much imo Contenders need the space to make moves and we are contenders for the foreseeable future

A high 2nd and a 3rd line centre is more valuable than the 30th pick IMO.

 

[YP44]

If you were the GM of another team, would you eat Richards contract and cap hit anchor to move up from 30th to 13th, which would be the maximum improvement under your scenario? I wouldn't.

I look at a team like the jets (who have the Blues 1st). the Jets have a lot of UFA forwards and even with Ehlers coming up likely need to bring in a veteran or two.
I don't that trading down to the blues pick is that crazy of a proposal. LA could reaint some $$ on Richards as well and I would be ok with it. Reason there is that retaining for 5 years is better than buy out hit of 10. Plus LA may want to retain in case Richards retires as someone told me that the retention penalty would be lessened if LA does so.

13th OA + Ricahrds (retain 1.4M) for Blues 1st (24th OA I bleieve if Chicago and Tampa advance)

 

[YP44]

Firstly, Quick will turn 33 in 2019. I'd say there's a better chance of him being an elite starter still than retired at that age.

Secondly, while yes some of the core will be aging out, others should be coming in. We still should have a very good if not great defense and Toffoli will only be 27, Pearson as well. A 32 year old Kopitar isn't really much of a concern to me, I expect he'll still be doing well at that age. Barring some Mike Richards-style drop off, we will only be a few top two line forwards away from being a cup contender in 2019 as well, and DL has proven very adept at landing those types at the deadline, ala Gaborik and Carter. Our window will be wide open still potentially in 2019, a $4+ million cap hit for a buyout will greatly hinder that.

Greta post here, I don't think LA's window will be closed in 2019.

 

[kingsfan]

I look at a team like the jets (who have the Blues 1st). the Jets have a lot of UFA forwards and even with Ehlers coming up likely need to bring in a veteran or two.
I don't that trading down to the blues pick is that crazy of a proposal. LA could reaint some $$ on Richards as well and I would be ok with it. Reason there is that retaining for 5 years is better than buy out hit of 10. Plus LA may want to retain in case Richards retires as someone told me that the retention penalty would be lessened if LA does so.

13th OA + Ricahrds (retain 1.4M) for Blues 1st (24th OA I bleieve if Chicago and Tampa advance)

At $1.4 retained, Richards cap hit to the Jets in this scenario is still $4.35 million.

So flip it around. Would you call it a smart deal for DL to trade the 24th overall pick to Winnipeg for the 13th overall pick and Mike Richards at a 5 year cap hit of $4.35 million? I think most, if not all, Kings fans would be opposed to that.

I get what you are saying from the Kings side, it certainly does help, but I don't see how it makes sense to another team to trade up 10 spots, not even cracking the top 10 in the process, and absorbing what is right now perhaps the worst contract in the NHL. Especially a team like Winnipeg who is emerging and becoming more of a threat, not rebuilding. Winnipeg needs the immediate help more than they need another mid-1st round pick that is likely three years away from cracking the roster.

Winnipeg is better off using that $4.35 million to sign a player that could crack their top two lines or upgrade their goaltending.

 

[KingCanadain1976]

A high 2nd and a 3rd line centre is more valuable than the 30th pick IMO.

Depending on the team i could see them more willing to give up the 2nd and a 3c for the 13th overall pick New Jersey seemed very interested in a trade on the main board giving up Josefson ( young 3c on elc) and a 2nd as part of a trade to get a extra first round pick There was more to the trade ( the whole trade which most devil fans agreed with was Richards Weal and 13 overall for 2 seconds (15 and 16) 4th clowe and Josefson

 

[kingsfan]

Depending on the team i could see them more willing to give up the 2nd and a 3c for the 13th overall pick New Jersey seemed very interested in a trade on the main board giving up Josefson ( young 3c on elc) and a 2nd as part of a trade to get a extra first round pick There was more to the trade ( the whole trade which most devil fans agreed with was Richards Weal and 13 overall for 2 seconds (15 and 16) 4th clowe and Josefson

Every team would trade a 3C and a 2nd for the 13th pick most likely. That's not the issue. $5.75 million in cap hit for the next five years is the issue.

The trade you posted as well includes Clowe, who has a cap hit nearly equal to Richards, though he'd be eligible for LTIR likely. It makes no sense for NJ to do that since Clowe won't count against the cap and his contract is insured, so they aren't even paying for it. Richards is both not injured and will count against the cap.

I'd bet my house NJ would laugh and hang up if that offer was made by DL.

 

[Fishhead]

Every team would trade a 3C and a 2nd for the 13th pick most likely. That's not the issue. $5.75 million in cap hit for the next five years is the issue.

The trade you posted as well includes Clowe, who has a cap hit nearly equal to Richards, though he'd be eligible for LTIR likely. It makes no sense for NJ to do that since Clowe won't count against the cap and his contract is insured, so they aren't even paying for it. Richards is both not injured and will count against the cap.

I'd bet my house NJ would laugh and hang up if that offer was made by DL.

Lou owes DL a solid for Brodeur's kid at the draft. This is how he should make it up to him!

 

[YP44]

At $1.4 retained, Richards cap hit to the Jets in this scenario is still $4.35 million.

So flip it around. Would you call it a smart deal for DL to trade the 24th overall pick to Winnipeg for the 13th overall pick and Mike Richards at a 5 year cap hit of $4.35 million? I think most, if not all, Kings fans would be opposed to that.

I get what you are saying from the Kings side, it certainly does help, but I don't see how it makes sense to another team to trade up 10 spots, not even cracking the top 10 in the process, and absorbing what is right now perhaps the worst contract in the NHL. Especially a team like Winnipeg who is emerging and becoming more of a threat, not rebuilding. Winnipeg needs the immediate help more than they need another mid-1st round pick that is likely three years away from cracking the roster.

Winnipeg is better off using that $4.35 million to sign a player that could crack their top two lines or upgrade their goaltending.

The thing about flipping it around to the kings perspective is LA has different needs than Winnipeg. The jets have more holes at forward next year than the kings do, the jets have more cap space than the kings do to. You say they could use the the $4.25 to sign someone else, my question is who? I am a fan of Canadian Hockey Markets but I don't see UFA's lining up to play in Winnipeg.
If LA needed more forwards and had the cap space I would be ok with taking on Richards contract to move up 11 spots in a deep draft year. 11 spots is a big leap and should not come cheap.

 

[kingsfan]

The thing about flipping it around to the kings perspective is LA has different needs than Winnipeg. The jets have more holes at forward next year than the kings do, the jets have more cap space than the kings do to. You say they could use the the $4.25 to sign someone else, my question is who? I am a fan of Canadian Hockey Markets but I don't see UFA's lining up to play in Winnipeg.
If LA needed more forwards and had the cap space I would be ok with taking on Richards contract to move up 11 spots in a deep draft year. 11 spots is a big leap and should not come cheap.

Same question can be asked of any team. As you said, Winnipeg needs forward help and committing $4.35 million to Mike Richards isn't it. And even if UFA's aren't 'lining up' to play in Winnipeg, they can use that cap space to trade for someone to play there. It's debatable if Richards would even make the Jets.

 

[jimmy1100]

I still think we can trade Richards away without paying anything major if we retain $2.75m.

I refuse to believe that there aren't at least three or four teams that would take a chance on Richards at a $3m hit. And that $3m in space would help a TON!

Richards ($2.75m retained) + 4th to [Some Team] for a 7th.

 

[no name]

A good franchise with a solid base never has a closed window..

 

[damacles1156]

A good franchise with a solid base never has a closed window..

That is not true.

Detroit is really the only franchise that has remained a consistent threat through a core change.

At some point, your core gets old, and phased out. You have to draft well, and make savvy trades just to continue to make the playoffs yearly like the Wings do.

The Kings already missed the playoffs this last season with an aging core, would you call that a success ?

What if this current core, misses the playoffs again next season ? is the window open ? I would say no, it's closed.

The Wings last cup appearance was 2009, as well. What Chicago/Kings did the past Five seasons, is very hard to do, the odds of it happening again (even with a good team) in the salary cap era, are slim to none.

 

[damacles1156]

I encourage people to look at the average age of NHL retirement, it's an easy google.

You are going to be shocked at what you see.

There is a reason why guys in the NHL that hit 1000 games are honored. There is a reason Jagr is a freak of nature.

There is only one Nic Lidstrom ETC, Joe Thornton ETC.

30 years old in the NHL, is old.

Think of it this way, How many Willie Mitchell's are in the league ? The Kings replaced him easy right ? The Kings have a RR in the wings waiting right ?

Even what those two guys have done, is impressive. So it's rare for NHL players to play at high levels past the age of 30. It's really old, if you came into the league at 19/20.

 

[Thrice]

That is not true.

Detroit is really the only franchise that has remained a consistent threat through a core change.

At some point, your core gets old, and phased out. You have to draft well, and make savvy trades just to continue to make the playoffs yearly like the Wings do.

The Kings already missed the playoffs this last season with an aging core, would you call that a success ?

What if this current core, misses the playoffs again next season ? is the window open ? I would say no, it's closed.

The Wings last cup appearance was 2009, as well. What Chicago/Kings did the past Five seasons, is very hard to do, the odds of it happening again (even with a good team) in the salary cap era, are slim to none.

What about New Jersey?

From 1993/94-2010/11 the Devils made it to the Conference Final 6 times, the Stanley Cup Final 5 times and won three Cups, while missing the Playoffs just twice.

Now if you want to start parsing hairs about who was and wasn't part of the "core" we can do that all night but I think it's far more pertinent to point out the one constant in all those teams, Lou Lamoriello. The man who just so happens to be Dean Lombardi's mentor.

Do I expect the Kings to be relevant for the next decade? Nope but it certainly isn't impossible.

 

[damacles1156]

What about New Jersey?

From 1993/94-2010/11 the Devils made it to the Conference Final 6 times, the Stanley Cup Final 5 times and won three Cups, while missing the Playoffs just twice.

Now if you want to start parsing hairs about who was and wasn't part of the "core" we can do that all night but I think it's far more pertinent to point out the one constant in all those teams, Lou Lamoriello. The man who just so happens to be Dean Lombardi's mentor.

Do I expect the Kings to be relevant for the next decade? Nope but it certainly isn't impossible.

Not impossible. Likely ? no.

What are the odds the Kings win two more cups, in three years with this current core ?

So we have pointed out two franchises that navigated core changes with some great success.

Two out of thirty, in the last two decades ?.

So everyone does it right ? just need a solid base ?

That was the point I am trying to make. What the Kings did, and Hawks are doing. Is unprecedented so far in the Salary cap era.

Not the normal mode of operation. It's more likely that the Kings will suffer some down years, while the current core ages, and is phased out.

 

[Buddy The Elf]

I think you are using flawed logic. Obviously, I could be completely wrong but the average age is going to be skewed downward because there are a lot players that are forced out of the league at a young age due to injuries or simply because they were never that good. The core players you are mentioning are good players and will likely trend downward in production but assuming Jeff Carter is going to be retired in 4 years is a big leap. Then you throw in Kopitar, Quick and Doughty's ages as if that means they can't still be key contributors then. Less productive? Yes. Not contributing? Time will tell.

i'm cool with whatever DL decides regarding Richards. But to simply disregard the implications of the cap penalty from a buyout because you don't think the team will be competitive in 4 years is shortsighted. A lot can happen between then and now. Maybe Jones develops into a solid starter and Quick is eventually traded for some youth? Maybe Carter is traded for some youth? Taking the buyout penalty and dealing with it in 4 years may be the best option but simply saying the Kings window will have been closed in 4 years is ridiculous. We have no idea what this team will look like in 4 years. I do agree that missing the playoffs this year is a big step backwards but I don't think you can just lay that at the hands of the core. You have young guys on the roster that had production drop off towards the end of the season (Toffoli) and another get injured (Pearson). Then you have the Voynov situation. The too many games in 3 seasons excuse. There are a lot of variables there but I don't think them missing the playoffs this season is indicative of the core's window closing now.