Prospect Info: 2015 21st overall - Colin White (C/RW) USNTDP, going to Boston College

[ReginKarlssonLehner]

Our scout says skill can be developed and he believes White will develop skill

I found that comment a little odd. I mean isnt White pretty skilled already and if C.Greening could develop skill wouldnt he?

Im sure they meant consistently and with the 200 foot game. White has already demonstrated excellent skill prior but took it as a backseat to his better all-around game this year and they probably wanna combine the two together.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

Our scout says skill can be developed and he believes White will develop skill

I found that comment a little odd. I mean isnt White pretty skilled already and if C.Greening could develop skill wouldnt he?

So if Colin White could do it at 18 Colin Greening should be able to do it at 29... Its a thing with guys named Colin.

 

[Vesa Awesaka]

So if Colin White could do it at 18 Colin Greening should be able to do it at 29... Its a thing with guys named Colin.

does age matter with skill? physical traites and hockey sense seems more like something you can develop as you age

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

does age matter with skill? physical traites and hockey sense seems more like something you can develop as you age

I do not have emperical data or statistical analysis to answer that definitively at my finger tips but to me it makes sense that there would be a steeper skill development curve between 18 and 20 than between 29 and 31 for Hockey Players... Darts could be different.

 

[Vesa Awesaka]

I do not have emperical data or statistical analysis to answer that definitively at my finger tips but to me it makes sense that there would be a steeper skill development curve between 18 and 20 than between 29 and 31.

The scout who said he believes White will develop skill said himself believing that defies conventional wisdom

The video is on the sens website the scout has kinda a NY accent. I just found it odd because i thought White was skilled already

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

The scout who said he believes White will develop skill said himself believing that defies conventional wisdom

The video is on the sens website the scout has kinda a NY accent. I just found it odd because i thought White was skilled already

Really. That kind of surprises me. If you consider junior aged players.. entering junior at 16/17 and playing till 19/20 then graduating to AHL and then to NHL. I am pretty sure they are developing skills more rapidly to a point where they would essentially peak or at lease slow in their skill development. At some point/age skills will start to erode. So I would think it would look like a Bell curve.

 

[Vesa Awesaka]

Really. That kind of surprises me. If you consider junior aged players.. entering junior at 16/17 and playing till 19/20 then graduating to AHL and then to NHL. I am pretty sure they are developing skills more rapidly to a point where they would essentially peak or at lease slow in their skill development. At some point/age skills will start to erode. So I would think it would look like a Bell curve.

I am paraphrasing so maybe i misinterpreted what he said. You might be better off watching the video and seeing if my interpretation is correct. He made a point of noting he believes White couldnt play to his full ability this year because of his illness. I think he said he had a spleen problem, Mono and a broken wrist

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

Colin White > NHL.

Someone on the main board's comment was: Future NHLPA President.

I thought it was good

 

[Burrowsaurus]

Our scout says skill can be developed and he believes White will develop skill

I found that comment a little odd. I mean isnt White pretty skilled already and if C.Greening could develop skill wouldnt he?

This is where our team kinda goes wrong. I wish we would draft high end skill. And thenbl develop the 2 way game

 

[Burrowsaurus]

Still a little mad we didn't get konecny.

 

[Mr Invidious]

Gronk is actually pretty intelligent. He hasn't spent a dime of his contract money with the Patriots, it's all saved up. He has only spent money from sponsors.

Point being that regardless if whether Gronk is a genius or not, he sounds like he has the IQ of a potato.

Just because someone sounds dumb or doesn't give a good interview or even shows any good speaking qualities does not relate or reflect their athletic ability.

 

[Sun God Nika]

Still a little mad we didn't get konecny.

You and me both, I was ready to buy a Konecny jersey until they said Colin White .

I hate to sound nooby, but can someone say why they think Colin White will be a better player than Travis Konecny? I'm not trying to sound bitter or anything seriously wanna try to get into this pick somehow since theres no reversing it, and would love to hear someones opinion on it.

From what I hear White has second liner potential while likely ending up a third line player who can play in all positions. Konecny's ceiling is #1C, who will likely be an above average 2nd liner.

I'm probably gonna be reading a bunch of scout reports, and clips on white. So far from everything ive seen its just the sens management going character > skill again and it makes me wanna puke and cry.

 

[ChocolateLeclaire]

You and me both, I was ready to buy a Konecny jersey until they said Colin White .

I hate to sound nooby, but can someone say why they think Colin White will be a better player than Travis Konecny? I'm not trying to sound bitter or anything seriously wanna try to get into this pick somehow since theres no reversing it, and would love to hear someones opinion on it.

From what I hear White has second liner potential while likely ending up a third line player who can play in all positions. Konecny's ceiling is #1C, who will likely be an above average 2nd liner.

I'm probably gonna be reading a bunch of scout reports, and clips on white. So far from everything ive seen its just the sens management going character > skill again and it makes me wanna puke and cry.

You keep regurgitating that the Sens take character over skill. And the only example you keep citing is Curtis Lazar, even though everyone in the know consider Lazar an absolute steal at his draft spot and all the guys taken after him haven't panned out in the least.

Can you, between puking and crying, please provide an example of when the Senators have passed on a skill guy that actually actually proved to be a skilled guy in the NHL?

 

[Vesa Awesaka]

You keep regurgitating that the Sens take character over skill. And the only example you keep citing is Curtis Lazar, even though everyone in the know consider Lazar an absolute steal at his draft spot and all the guys taken after him haven't panned out in the least.

Can you, between puking and crying, please provide an example of when the Senators have passed on a skill guy that actually actually proved to be a skilled guy in the NHL?

Ill be honest....Isnt that a little broad? Couldnt i just name every high scoring player the sens didnt draft?

Not saying i disagree with your point though. Lazar is actually pretty skilled too. My buddy played with him. I mean Lazar was 2nd overall in the WHL draft. That usually means the player has some level of skill

Lazar is skilled hes just been overcoached.

 

[Coco the Monkey*]

If Konecny becomes a number one centre I will eat my left and right nuts. There is no way he ever becomes a number one centre. He's too small to take on number one lines every night and play 20 plus minutes in the NHL. Looks like a sure fire winger in the NHL and already has had three big injuries against kids in the OHL.

White was ranked ahead of him last year too.

The sens rarely take character over skill. They take skilled guys who have character. Or else you'll end up with an Anthony Mantha, hunter shinkaruk or josh how sang who will either never step foot in the NHL, or just become a shadow of their junior selves.

It's funny too that you get all these Konecny whiners coming out of the woodwork, yet I doubt they ever actually went to see him play this season since the 67's had piss poor attendance this season.

 

[Sens Rule]

The Sens traded up to get an incredibly undersized defenceman that oozed skill. Karlsson was awesome... But still a risk... He was like 165 lbs or something.

If that isn't choosing skill over safety what is?

White sounds incredibly skilled. Being sound defensively doesn't mean you don't possess high end skill... It probably means he is less far away from developing to be NHL ready.

Detroit took Anthony Mantha... High end more one dimensional skill guy at 20 overall. Two years out who looks better? Lazar at 17 or Mantha? Mantha just put up 15 goals in the AHL.

Mantha might make the NHL and be good. He might never play 100 games. Lazar is for sure an NHler... He will probably play a decade or more baring injury. He is a guaranteed NHLer now... Even if he doesn't end up with high end offence he is a for sure bottom 6er... Guaranteed. No guarantee Mantha is better offensively even.

It is like the fans are demanding that the team draft the most one dimensional guy offensively and hope he can become a superstar instead of just drafting the best player available.

I don't know much about all the prospects or anything... Reading about White doesn't make me think he has low upside at all. He is one of the very best 17 year old players in the USA. He dominated his age group at every level. He played great through incredible illness. Takes serious balls to even play if you lose 30 lbs as a 17 year old.

We saw Logan Couture drop a lot his draft year because he had mono. White could be similar. Guy that would have gone higher if he didn't have mono in his draft year.

I trust our drafting. We seem to know what we are doing as an organization in the scouting department. So I trust all our picks were good ones. I do think all 3 guys we got at 18,21,36 were targetted in particular and we really, really wanted all of them... Hoped we would get them well before the draft. Even traded to get the picks to choose 2 of them.

So I like what we did a lot.

 

[Sun God Nika]

You keep regurgitating that the Sens take character over skill. And the only example you keep citing is Curtis Lazar, even though everyone in the know consider Lazar an absolute steal at his draft spot and all the guys taken after him haven't panned out in the least.

Can you, between puking and crying, please provide an example of when the Senators have passed on a skill guy that actually actually proved to be a skilled guy in the NHL?

Well someones feeling a little hostile lately. Still love ya bra.

Ive been happy with the picks up to 2012.

From watching a lot of the videos for the draft behind the scenes the last couple years Murray/Dorion have always been reiterating we value character over everything else. I HATE THAT. I would value every little thing measured at a prospects combine over something intangible like character.

The 2013 draft was deep and we took a guy like Lazar with Burakovsky, and Mantha still available. Lazar is gonna be fine I don't see a goal scorer out of him at the NHL. Id rather have a 20 goal a year head case locker room cancer over 15 goal mr intangible smiley guy in the locker room.

We didn't have a pick in 2014 and that drafts a crap shot.

I just don't like picking projected third liners like Lazar and White in the first round.


I felt really strongly about Konecny being our first blue chip prospect in a long long time and i'm just asking for someone to share why they think White is better because I would love to read a comparable post. Sorry if that pisses you off.

 

[Sens Rule]

Well someones feeling a little hostile lately. Still love ya bra.

Ive been happy with the picks up to 2012.

From watching a lot of the videos for the draft behind the scenes the last couple years Murray/Dorion have always been reiterating we value character over everything else. I HATE THAT. I would value every little thing measured at a prospects combine over something intangible like character.

The 2013 draft was deep and we took a guy like Lazar with Burakovsky, and Mantha still available. Lazar is gonna be fine I don't see a goal scorer out of him at the NHL. Id rather have a 20 goal a year head case locker room cancer over 15 goal mr intangible smiley guy in the locker room.

We didn't have a pick in 2014 and that drafts a crap shot.

I just don't like picking projected third liners like Lazar and White in the first round.


I felt really strongly about Konecny being our first blue chip prospect in a long long time and i'm just asking for someone to share why they think White is better because I would love to read a comparable post. Sorry if that pisses you off.

Thanks Don Brennan.

 

[Coco the Monkey*]

Well someones feeling a little hostile lately. Still love ya bra.

Ive been happy with the picks up to 2012.

From watching a lot of the videos for the draft behind the scenes the last couple years Murray/Dorion have always been reiterating we value character over everything else. I HATE THAT. I would value every little thing measured at a prospects combine over something intangible like character.

The 2013 draft was deep and we took a guy like Lazar with Burakovsky, and Mantha still available. Lazar is gonna be fine I don't see a goal scorer out of him at the NHL. Id rather have a 20 goal a year head case locker room cancer over 15 goal mr intangible smiley guy in the locker room.

We didn't have a pick in 2014 and that drafts a crap shot.

I just don't like picking projected third liners like Lazar and White in the first round.


I felt really strongly about Konecny being our first blue chip prospect in a long long time and i'm just asking for someone to share why they think White is better because I would love to read a comparable post. Sorry if that pisses you off.

That's why you wouldn't make w good manager I guess. Taking a 20 goal head case locker room cancer over a 15 goal character player is the dumbest thing I've heard all weekend.

Mantha is already looking terrible in the pros. Have you heard his team talk about him lately? Burkas sky is skilled, but not a high end player by any means. Lazar is a skilled player with a goal scorers touch who plays all three zones and wins and leads at every level. Literally a dream prospect and without a doubt he was blue chip. He's a better prospect than Konecny at the same age. Third line projection? Give me a break. Tim Murray said he will score 30 goals in this league.

 

[Samsquanch]

Skill is such a vague and general term that doesn't really define anything.

Are we talking about dangles and dipsy doodles up and down the ice? Are we talking about passing and one I've vision? Shot strength/release/accuracy?

I think Zibanejad's "skill" was also called into question back in the day. After I came to the realization that he did all of those things exceptionally well, I really started to take scouts grading of "skill" with a grain of salt.

 

[Johnny Hanson]

Still a little mad we didn't get konecny.

Tell me about it. I think konecny has the skill, iq, leadership and edge in his game to be a Claude giroux lite

 

[Coco the Monkey*]

Tell me about it. I think konecny has the skill, iq, leadership and edge in his game to be a Claude giroux lite

The sens and leafs passing on him should raise a ton of red flags. Nobody sees him more.

 

[Johnny Hanson]

The sens and leafs passing on him should raise a ton of red flags. Nobody sees him more.

Obviously they didn't like something about his game or they would've picked him. I'm just stating my opinion, and I believe he has that potential.

 

[ChocolateLeclaire]

Well someones feeling a little hostile lately. Still love ya bra.

Ive been happy with the picks up to 2012.

From watching a lot of the videos for the draft behind the scenes the last couple years Murray/Dorion have always been reiterating we value character over everything else. I HATE THAT. I would value every little thing measured at a prospects combine over something intangible like character.

The 2013 draft was deep and we took a guy like Lazar with Burakovsky, and Mantha still available. Lazar is gonna be fine I don't see a goal scorer out of him at the NHL. Id rather have a 20 goal a year head case locker room cancer over 15 goal mr intangible smiley guy in the locker room.

We didn't have a pick in 2014 and that drafts a crap shot.

I just don't like picking projected third liners like Lazar and White in the first round.


I felt really strongly about Konecny being our first blue chip prospect in a long long time and i'm just asking for someone to share why they think White is better because I would love to read a comparable post. Sorry if that pisses you off.

It doesn't piss me off in the least. You're the one repeatedly saying how picking Colin White over Konecny was a mistake when numerous teams, including the Leafs who drafted undersized skill players, all took a pass on him.

Meanwhile you seem to believe, with no reasonable backing, that Colin White and Curtis Lazar are "projected third liners" where both players have been projected to be much more than that.

The fact that you hold up Mantha, the player that Detroit's assistant GM has declared "disappointing" to the point they're actively trying to trade him, as a better pick than Lazar is just odd. If Detroit, one of the best player development teams in the league is giving up on you, you're not good.

 

[Sens Rule]

I hate that we picked the Captain of The WJC Team Canada team who already made the NHL as a teenager and was so good he kept earning a spot on the third line a year because he was better then a half dozen NHL veterans we had signed who played less minutes or were scratched.

I hate that we picked a player at 17 that a year later I watched the Team repeatedly choose to face Sidney Crosby defensively in the faceoff dot in a one goal game in the third period... And was at worst a draw in the faceoff dot with Crosby that game. I mean what a putz... He ended up a winger after being trusted as a centre vs Crosby to take defensive draws vs the best player in world... As a rookie.

I saw it live but my eyes must have decieved me?!?!

I can't believe that calling Lazar a third liner is even a thing. I mean he is already. At both wing and centre. Was he a bad centre? Somehow he was 49% in the dot... Unheard of as a rookie. Somehow he was a part of Stone and Hoffman going frim
The 4th line quickly to the third... To the top lines soon enough. Part of an extremely good checking line as a Winger. Took a vacation to the WJC and the best 17,18,19 players from Canada they make him Captain and play him with McDavid.

Playing uber-safe hockey as a teenager in your first season... Doesn't make you a forever third liner... It makes you GET TO PLAY IN THE LEAGUE. Drouin is almost certainly better... He was in
The stands because he is not capable of playing safe enough hockey for Tampa. I can almost guarantee Lazar is stapled to the 4th line for Tampa in the playoffs if he was there.

Lazar's is really safe so far... He is already an above average defensively and in physicality forward in the NHL. He got 8 goals this year and people say he is a "15 goal" player? At his best? Really? Who thinks that?

How is he not a top end talent type of prospect? Were we picking 3rd overall and went with a safe pick? We picked freaking 17th!!!!

To me Lazar projects to be a centre you play vs the absolute best line of the other team every shift and who can score some too. Whether he gets 60 points or 30 goals? Idk... I bet within 2 years he is the guy that is out every shift McDavid or Crosby or Stamkos is playing vs ottawa.