2015-2016 Roster Talk: East Coast Thinks We Suck Edition(MOD WARNING) post# 107

[Basilisk]

Byfuglien plz

For Brown (33% retained) & Forbort?

 

[Basilisk]

Actually....


I wonder if it would be possible to swap Brown & Martinez for Ladd & Byfuglien...???

 

[Primakov!]

Building an algorithm for this type of calculation is actually trivial in nature. However, I would have to know the players' salaries on a daily basis, in accordance with length of call-ups and send-downs. Obviously, he has this information available to him. Without having to do all that work, would be fun to know how much the CAP they have left for moves during this season.

Take the maximum salary cap and divide it by the number of days in an NHL season -- e.g. 186.

Per day that's the maximum that a team can carry.

You take a player's cap hit and divide it by the same number of days to get their cap hit for the day.

Take the sum of all of the players that were reported to be on the active NHL roster for that day, subtract it from previous figure, and what you have leftover is the cap space.

You then sum up that cap space for the day that was leftover and add it to the other days thereafter to get the cap space you're working with for the season.

Example:

70,000,000 / 186 = $376,344.09

Dustin Brown
$5,875,000 / 186 = $31,586.02 per day cap hit

$376,344.09 - $31,586.02 = $344,758.07 for the rest of the players

Let's say that at the end of calculating it for the other players you have $40,000 as the reaming unspent amount. If who is on the roster does not change for the next day either then after two days the cap space is now calculated to $80,000 for the club.

If on the third day you happen to recall a player and they cost $5,000 per day then after the third day you have $115,000 in cap space instead of $120,000.

Roughly that's how it goes.

 

[YP44]

Actually....


I wonder if it would be possible to swap Brown & Martinez for Ladd & Byfuglien...???

no chance Winnipeg touches this.
I would also be concerned as half our team would be UFA's

 

[Trolfoli]

Take the maximum salary cap and divide it by the number of days in an NHL season -- e.g. 186.

Per day that's the maximum that a team can carry.

You take a player's cap hit and divide it by the same number of days to get their cap hit for the day.

Take the sum of all of the players that were reported to be on the active NHL roster for that day, subtract it from previous figure, and what you have leftover is the cap space.

You then sum up that cap space for the day that was leftover and add it to the other days thereafter to get the cap space you're working with for the season.

Example:

70,000,000 / 186 = $376,344.09

Dustin Brown
$5,875,000 / 186 = $31,586.02 per day cap hit

$376,344.09 - $31,586.02 = $344,758.07 for the rest of the players

Let's say that at the end of calculating it for the other players you have $40,000 as the reaming unspent amount. If who is on the roster does not change for the next day either then after two days the cap space is now calculated to $80,000 for the club.

If on the third day you happen to recall a player and they cost $5,000 per day then after the third day you have $115,000 in cap space instead of $120,000.

Roughly that's how it goes.

Ok.... So how does the LTIR work? All the players stay on the calculation, but the cap goes up by the amount of the relief. In Greene's case the Kings were very close to the cap so it's 2.4M and change.... when does that increase go into effect? Greene went on IR Oct 23'rd, but didn't get placed on LTIR until Dec 16. I'm guessing the cap increase doesn't retroactively go back to Oct 23'rd but kicks in Dec 16th. Don't know if that is right or wrong, but almost 2 months with 2.4M more cap space makes a large difference.

Just to be clear, when King was on IR, the Kings were still on the hook for his cap hit during that time, along with another salary for a replacement.

The calculation is easy enough, but got to know when the LTIR number kicks in. Otherwise it's pointless to sit down and do the math.

Hey Ron... found this for you... now you have no excuses!!!
https://www.hockeyscap.com/teams/kings/cap_tracker

Looks like Budaj was on the roster for a day...

 

[Reclamation Project]

For Brown (33% retained) & Forbort?

You think I could trade the trash in my kitchen for a Rolex GMT?

 

[tsanuri]

Ok.... So how does the LTIR work? All the players stay on the calculation, but the cap goes up by the amount of the relief. In Greene's case the Kings were very close to the cap so it's 2.4M and change.... when does that increase go into effect? Greene went on IR Oct 23'rd, but didn't get placed on LTIR until Dec 16. I'm guessing the cap increase doesn't retroactively go back to Oct 23'rd but kicks in Dec 16th. Don't know if that is right or wrong, but almost 2 months with 2.4M more cap space makes a large difference.

Just to be clear, when King was on IR, the Kings were still on the hook for his cap hit during that time, along with another salary for a replacement.

The calculation is easy enough, but got to know when the LTIR number kicks in. Otherwise it's pointless to sit down and do the math.

Hey Ron... found this for you... now you have no excuses!!!
https://www.hockeyscap.com/teams/kings/cap_tracker

Looks like Budaj was on the roster for a day...

LTIR is one of those funny things it helps you but never grows like avail cap space. And only allows you to fill a spot with someone and go over the cap. So if the number of around 600K avail is without taking into account the LTIR we'll have just above the 3M mark avail at the deadline.

 

[Captain Mittens*]

LTIR is one of those funny things

Who co you think is funnier? LTIR or Reclamation Project?

My vote is for RP

 

[Trolfoli]

LTIR is one of those funny things it helps you but never grows like avail cap space. And only allows you to fill a spot with someone and go over the cap. So if the number of around 600K avail is without taking into account the LTIR we'll have just above the 3M mark avail at the deadline.

Yeah... just thought it would be cool to be able to calculate the exact number... wouldn't be hard to set up once you have the few rules on how to make changes for things like LTIR down.

 

[Primakov!]

Ok.... So how does the LTIR work? All the players stay on the calculation, but the cap goes up by the amount of the relief. In Greene's case the Kings were very close to the cap so it's 2.4M and change.... when does that increase go into effect? Greene went on IR Oct 23'rd, but didn't get placed on LTIR until Dec 16. I'm guessing the cap increase doesn't retroactively go back to Oct 23'rd but kicks in Dec 16th. Don't know if that is right or wrong, but almost 2 months with 2.4M more cap space makes a large difference.

LTIR is a totally different calculation. Apples and oranges, really.

You take the player's total cap hit value (not daily) and subtract the cap space remaining to get how much you can exceed the maximum salary cap figure by.

Example:

Matt Greene = $2,500,000

I don't have the number in front of me, but basically take all the players that were on the roster at the time and sum their cap hit.

The NHL salary cap is $71,400,000 and by virtue of the rules of needing to be below the cap number to start the season the Kings had cushion and were below that number.

To take advantage of it they did not place Greene on LTIR right away. They instead called up additional players (do you remember the weird Jeff Schultz and Nick Ebert call ups?) to get even closer to the maximum salary cap.

The recalls left the Kings with what looks like $11,655 in cap space.

$71,400,000 - $71,388,345 = $11,655
$2,500,000 - $11,655 = $2,488,345

So $2,488,345 is what the Kings can exceed the salary cap by with Matt Greene going on LTIR after the player recalls pushed them closer to the max cap figure.

I haven't seen anyone's calculation on this to be certain, but I think you'd just increase the maximum salary cap figure starting December 15th when they announced he'd be going on LTIR.

So instead of doing this in my previous example:

$70,000,000 / 186

You might be doing this from December 15th forward:

($70,000,000 + $2,488,345) / 186

Keep in mind that I'm arbitrarily using $70,000,000 for the cap hit and 186 for the total days in the NHL season just as an example. Plug in the real number yourself by looking it up.

Granted, none of the cap sites really show their work for calculation so I could be off, but this is what I'm figuring from what I've been able to gather from various sites.

 

[Trolfoli]

LTIR is a totally different calculation. Apples and oranges, really.

You take the player's total cap hit value (not daily) and subtract the cap space remaining to get how much you can exceed the maximum salary cap figure by.

Example:

Matt Greene = $2,500,000

I don't have the number in front of me, but basically take all the players that were on the roster at the time and sum their cap hit.

The NHL salary cap is $71,400,000 and by virtue of the rules of needing to be below the cap number to start the season the Kings had cushion and were below that number.

To take advantage of it they did not place Greene on LTIR right away. They instead called up additional players (do you remember the weird Jeff Schultz and Nick Ebert call ups?) to get even closer to the maximum salary cap.

The recalls left the Kings with what looks like $11,655 in cap space.

$71,400,000 - $71,388,345 = $11,655
$2,500,000 - $11,655 = $2,488,345

So $2,488,345 is what the Kings can exceed the salary cap by with Matt Greene going on LTIR after the player recalls pushed them closer to the max cap figure.

I haven't seen anyone's calculation on this to be certain, but I think you'd just increase the maximum salary cap figure starting December 15th when they announced he'd be going on LTIR.

So instead of doing this in my previous example:

$70,000,000 / 186

You might be doing this from December 15th forward:

($70,000,000 + $2,488,345) / 186

Keep in mind that I'm arbitrarily using $70,000,000 for the cap hit and 186 for the total days in the NHL season just as an example. Plug in the real number yourself by looking it up.

Granted, none of the cap sites really show their work for calculation so I could be off, but this is what I'm figuring from what I've been able to gather from various sites.

That's what I was thinking, 71.4 cap for first part of the season, 71.4+LTIR after Dec 12-16th whenever he was put on LTIR.
I actually beilieve that the Kings used an emergency call up to get Shultz up on that Schultz/Ebert move.
http://www.generalfanager.com/teams/los-angeles-kings
Generalfanager shows the Kings with a 90,000 overage.

https://www.hockeyscap.com/teams/kings/cap_tracker
Show Schultz as an emergency call up.

-Problem here is that both Schultz/Ebert were reported as call ups, but I don't think anyone went into the details about it. Greene was placed on LTIR but exactly how that went down (day, retroactive, effect on the cap)... without that info it doesn't make sense to spend the time doing the calculations. The error from miscalculating the effect of Greene's cap hit will make everything else pointless.

 

[Reclamation Project]

Who co you think is funnier? LTIR or Reclamation Project?

My vote is for RP

I'll take LTIR to the woodshed.

 

[tsanuri]

Yeah... just thought it would be cool to be able to calculate the exact number... wouldn't be hard to set up once you have the few rules on how to make changes for things like LTIR down.

I just wish one of the many sites that want to take over where capgeek left off would get it fully together. They not only had the info there for where you were but also showed what you had at the deadline. It was just so easy.

 

[KINGS17]

I am sick of the daily updates but he is right that it will have a huge impact on the cap, and what teams cannot do.
I worry for the jets again. All salaries are in USD but for canadian clubs the revenue is in CDN. So their $7M actually costs Around $9M!! It is fair and the only way to do things, but I think it is important to be aware of it.
It also attracts players to Canada when the CDN dollar is in the crapper as the players get paid the same but their expenses are less compared to earnings. It is believed this is why Giordano's hit is <$7M....I think it's because he is old and that deal will hurt at the end.

If you want DAILY updates, I can give you daily updates. I just find that the economic realities that exist around the world, and how they will impact the salary cap are not discussed very often.

It makes people feel uncomfortable about the salary demands of their favorite player(s) and their agents.

No, they're not in reality but if you're the player's agent who is in negotiations, they'll use that. LIke Taresenko's 7.5 I'm guessing is where elite young wingers/forwards in the position he will want, and skip the bridge deal. That contract handcuffed the Blues a bit, as will the others that get signed. That's still to high, given the other 20 odd contracts that fill out the roster

Until some elite player signs for less and that becomes the 'norm' for that position, it won't change and is an issue, esp with the CAP hovering at 71 M.
The player's are in the driver's seat, as much as the GM's want to say no, they don't want to risk losing their star player.

In every revolution there must be at least one man with a vision. Someone needs to blaze the trail, and say no.

Another thing that is interesting is that the difference between $71M and the $80M the Hawks thought the salary cap would be at next season, is about the AAV that Kopitar and his agent are seeking from the Kings.

 

[theMajor]

after watching some of the world junior highlights, I really hope Alexander Dergachyov makes the Kings NHL team in the next few years. kid is ****ng huge and skilled to boot

 

[KINGS17]

after watching some of the world junior highlights, I really hope Alexander Dergachyov makes the Kings NHL team in the next few years. kid is ****ng huge and skilled to boot

This kid might be the 3C we are looking for, and eventually a 2C.

Drafting and development isgoing to be the key.

 

[theMajor]

he's got the hockey smarts and skills of a 2C for sure, and hes sitting at 6 foot 5, 220+ pounds as a 19 year old.
plus he can snipe and he's a grinder, if he progresses well he's got "King" written all over him

 

[KINGS17]

he's got the hockey smarts and skills of a 2C for sure, and hes sitting at 6 foot 5, 220+ pounds as a 19 year old.
plus he can snipe and he's a grinder, if he progresses well he's got "King" written all over him

I agree. He was one of my picks in one of the many mock drafts that were held on the main board. He fits the Kings' style pretty well.

 

[Mully12]

after watching some of the world junior highlights, I really hope Alexander Dergachyov makes the Kings NHL team in the next few years. kid is ****ng huge and skilled to boot

I was only able to watch the gold medal game but I definitely liked what I saw from him. Hopefully he can become a long time fixture for the Kings.

 

[King'sPawn]

This kid might be the 3C we are looking for, and eventually a 2C.

Drafting and development isgoing to be the key.

I honestly think he fits better as a winger, but I agree about development being key

 

[Johnny Utah]

If Lewis and Enroth walk and the Cap goes up the Kings still don't have enough money for Kopitar and Lucic.

I have a feeling Brown is a goner. Lombardi won't make the same mistake with MR he did with Brown. Deal him and retain salary or buy him out.

 

[KingsOfCali25]

So I was talking with a friend about our prospects and where we hope they can fill in a role. We know some might not hit the potential but what they could be. Anybody with knowledge (Jason Lewis or KingsPawn or others) give input...

Quick...
Doughty...
Kopitar...
Carter...Kempe/Prokhorkin
Gaborik...S. Watson
Lucic...Mersch
Toffoli...Brodzinski/Kubalik
Pearson...Zykov/Mistele
Muzzin...Cernak/LaDue
Martinez...Ebert/Leslie
Voynov(player not off ice person)...Sharipzyanov
Brown...Lowry/Kitsyn
King...Dergachyov
Lecavalier...Amadio/Dowd
McNabb/Schenn...Forbort/Gravel/Lintuniemi
Lewis...Schmalz
Clifford/Nolan/Andreoff...Auger/Sabourin/Wagner/Marchment

What do you think? Close or not?

 

[King'sPawn]

So I was talking with a friend about our prospects and where we hope they can fill in a role. We know some might not hit the potential but what they could be. Anybody with knowledge (Jason Lewis or KingsPawn or others) give input...

Quick...
Doughty...
Kopitar...
Carter...Kempe/Prokhorkin
Gaborik...S. Watson
Lucic...Mersch
Toffoli...Brodzinski/Kubalik
Pearson...Zykov/Mistele
Muzzin...Cernak/LaDue
Martinez...Ebert/Leslie
Voynov(player not off ice person)...Sharipzyanov
Brown...Lowry/Kitsyn
King...Dergachyov
Lecavalier...Amadio/Dowd
McNabb/Schenn...Forbort/Gravel/Lintuniemi
Lewis...Schmalz
Clifford/Nolan/Andreoff...Auger/Sabourin/Wagner/Marchment

What do you think? Close or not?

In terms of roles they would best succeed in, I think you have some good comparisons. Although it's extremely optimistic that any number of them would be able to fill in for current NHLers.

Just a brief summation of a chunk of them, if not all, from my perspective:

Kempe would definitely be able to benefit more from his speed through the neutral zone, so he may thrive at center like Carter. However, he's very tenacious and speedy along the boards too, and I thought he played a lot like Trevor Lewis.

Prokhorkin wouldn't play in Carter's role, if he decided to commit to the NHL. I'm not as optimistic about him as years past. At best, he would make a good 3rd line center, something along the Shore mold.

Watson isn't too different from Weal, in terms of being a smaller guy whose speed, skill and tenacity has allowed him to be successful. Could he make it as a 2nd line winger, like Gaborik? He COULD, but like Weal, he may find more success in a different organization.

I agree Mersch could eventually develop into a top line powerforward, although he's not as menacing as Lucic. He really has to improve on his skating, however, and consequently, he will need another offseason to (pardon the pun) make strides.

Brodzinski has a better chance than Watson of having that second line sniper role. His technique is much better refined. Kubalik, I think, still sealed his fate by returning to Europe instead of staying and developing his game in North America.

Zykov, skillwise, has been a little lukewarm. He's more competitive than skillful. I think he would find himself in a more suitable role on the third line, like Brown or King. Mistele is such a wild card. I don't know how to project him.

Cernak I think is closer to the role of what Voynov provided, in terms of having a combination of skill and gritty play. He's still very immature, in my opinion. LaDue, I've heard comparisons of him to Willie Mitchell, which as a stay-at-home defenseman with some ability to chip in offensively, I think is pretty fair.

I actually agree Leslie is a perfect comparison to Martinez as far as role and style of play. Ebert would also have a similar role as a bottom pairing offensive defenseman, although he's a more skilled puck carrier like Doughty.

Sharipziyanov might succeed as a bottom pairing stay at home defenseman at best. I don't see much of Voynov in him.

Lowry could top off as a third line wing like Brown, but I just don't see it happening. He's a high energy player. Kitsyn is still in the ECHL at the age of 24, and even after the Kings have lost Weal, Mersch to the NHL and Kempe temporarily to the WJC, he wasn't called up to the AHL. I think we can assume the organization has no long term plans for him.

Dergachev would fit in perfectly in the third line grinding winger's role. I agree.

Amadio and Dowd are both fantastic two way centers; I feel both would be okay as bottom 6 centers.

Schenn is a good style and role comparison to Gravel; bottom pairing stay at home defenseman who can play physical. Forbort is not nearly assertive enough in his game, and I've compared him for years to Jeff Schultz before the Kings signed Jeff Schultz. Lintuniemi is a wildcard. He can play the McNabb role, given his skils and style of play, but I've always come away feeling lukewarm when I watch Lintuniemi play. I don't know why.

Schmalz has not impressed me at all, and I definitely don't see him being able to eventually fill the role Lewis does. He turns 20 this year, he's the 7th leading scorer on a very bad team, and he has the second worst +/- in the entire league (-35). Now, I normally don't think +/- means a whole lot, but when you have his size, you're older than a lot of your competition, and you still can't reconcile any of your metrics to something respectable, only reinforces the eye test.

Auger and Marchment could both pan out as fourth line grinders. I think like other prospects, the Sabourin ship has sailed. Wagner would actually benefit more playing in a higher tempo role, like that of a third line winger or even a second line winger if he puts it together (his numbers have been up and down this year).

A couple more players not mentioned. Middleton could pan out as a bottom pairing, stay at home tough guy. Kurtis MacDermid as well (he's closer to Greene in terms of role and style of play than anyone else in the organization). Reddekopp could become a bottom four defender, but I have to see more of him to have a better handle.

 

[PJ Kings Hockey]

Thanks, KP. Pretty thin group of prospects, though. Nearly all projected to be bottom pair D or bottom-6 forwards. Still better than our goalie prospect situation. I would say package some lower picks and move up at the draft, but this year we only have a 2nd, 4th, and 5th, I've read.

 

[King'sPawn]

Thanks, KP. Pretty thin group of prospects, though. Nearly all projected to be bottom pair D or bottom-6 forwards. Still better than our goalie prospect situation. I would say package some lower picks and move up at the draft, but this year we only have a 2nd, 4th, and 5th, I've read.

There's no team who is composed entirely of draft picks. That's what trades and UFA signings are for.

I am very confident the Kings will draft a goalie, or maybe two.

Some players/prospects will probably be moved for draft picks.