2015-2016 Roster Talk: Bottom Six has 0 goals in Infinity Games Edition

[Omni Owl]

Setting yourself up for disappointment if you think Dowd is going to produce more than any other 4th liner.

Dowd/Shore/Clifford/Nolan/Andy....These guys are all fringe NHL 4th liners. Guys like Dwight King(production wise) are hard to come by for your bottom six.

Someone like Kempe or Mersch are guys you should expect to produce good in bottom six roles.

Dowd did not look like a fringe 4th liner at all last night. I'll reserve judgement until he (hopefully) plays a few more games. Sutter seemed to have confidence in him by giving more ice time, as well as having him out there at the end of the game. I agree about those other guys, would rather see Mersch and Kempe instead of Shore/AA/Nolan/Clifford.

 

[BigKing]

Dowd was physical while flashing some skill...both the physicality and skill were more than Shore has shown.

But it is only one game.

 

[kingsfan28]

LMAO. "Career year" and only 6 points behind Kopitar in the same number of games. Not that I'm disagreeing with you that Kopitar won't win, but it's hilarious.

In the eyes of the voters, 6 points behind in the east is like 12 points ahead vs someone playing in the west. Most of the writers are in their jammies by 10:30.

 

[onlyalad]

In the eyes of the voters, 6 points behind in the east is like 12 points ahead vs someone playing in the west. Most of the writers are in their jammies by 10:30.

They are basing the Bergeron is better because he takes more defensive zone faceoffs.
The problem with that logic is his whole team takes more defensive zone faceoffs.
Kopitar has the lowest percent on the Kings of offensive zone faceoffs at 50%
The only way Kopitar can catch Bergeron is for the Kings to give up the puck more.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

They are basing the Bergeron is better because he takes more defensive zone faceoffs.
The problem with that logic is his whole team takes more defensive zone faceoffs.
Kopitar has the lowest percent on the Kings of offensive zone faceoffs at 50%
The only way Kopitar can catch Bergeron is for the Kings to give up the puck more.

They're actually basing a lot of it on--surprise--CorsiRel.

The Bruins are not good at possession this year but Bergeron is crushing it as usual.

I actually think, despite some of the silliness, that Bergeron IS the better candidate for Selke this year, points be damned, but the reasoning behind it from most people is silly.

 

[YP44]

Dowd was physical while flashing some skill...both the physicality and skill were more than Shore has shown.

But it is only one game.

remember Dwight King's first game back this year? He was the savior.

 

[Fishhead]

remember Dwight King's first game back this year? He was the savior.

If Dowd can produce even close what King has this year, I'll do backflips!

But seriously, I hope he gets a chance to try and follow up his first game with another strong one. Sounds like he will with VL getting a rest day.

 

[PJ Kings Hockey]

 

[BigKing]

Loved how Dowd was drawing the ire of Buff all night. Had a real nice battle with him along the half-boards in the 3rd as well that showed nice strength and tenacity.

Hoping that he can start drawing some penalties with the way he goes hard to the net after every whistle.

He seems better than Shore. Shore is too tentative at this level while Dowd is just going for it.

 

[Herby]

Can't wait to move on from some of these bottom six guys.

Lewis had some nice moments with the Kings but someone is going to way overpay for him this summer. We will miss some of the little things he does, but what he doesn't do makes it impossible to pay him what someone else will.

Clifford, not totally his fault but he just never developed into the player the Kings expected, high 2nd round pick, comparisons to Lucic and seven years later he is a run of the mill fourth liner. Never should have been in the NHL at 19, that extra year in junior could have further developed an offensive game. $1.6m cap hit is about double what he should make.

Shore, I realize he is still pretty young, but much like with Forbort what is the upside here?

 

[SettlementRichie10]

God, I forgot Clifford was making that much. That's insane. It's time to move on from the old guard of Lewis, Clifford, Nolan, et al. King is the only one out of the bunch worth keeping down there. Keep easing Dowd, Mersch, Kempe, etc into the lineup.

 

[Omni Owl]

Clifford's career is definitely hampered by past concussions. I'm sure management was hoping Shore's offensive ability would translate from AHL to NHL, but it sure doesn't look that way, at least right now. BK is right, Dowd is just going for it because he knows this could be his only chance to make an impression. So far it looks like he fits in, I'm hoping he can use his size and generate some offense. It would be nice if Mersch or Kempe got a shot instead of Shore and AA. Our bottom 6 could be more lethal and we wouldn't even know it. Thank **** for VL btw, its a shame his frame has taken such a beating, because the elite hands and vision are still there. He makes our PP way more dangerous with his playmaking ability.

 

[deeshamrock]

They are basing the Bergeron is better because he takes more defensive zone faceoffs.
The problem with that logic is his whole team takes more defensive zone faceoffs.
Kopitar has the lowest percent on the Kings of offensive zone faceoffs at 50%
The only way Kopitar can catch Bergeron is for the Kings to give up the puck more.

Def Zone Faceoff % is an area that is one of several that are used, others are (as used in an article from last year :

http://www.torontosun.com/2015/03/13/numbers-guy-all-stats-point-to-bergeron-for-selke

four relevant even-strength stats — penalty differential (PenD), scoring chances for percentage (SCF%), goals against per 60 minutes (GA/60) and defensive zone faceoff percentage (DefFO%).

Plus/minus isn't high on the list of consideration, tied to 5 men unit ,not one

Not plus-minus or penalty-kill numbers — those are too team-reliant. What’s useful in this case are faceoff winning percentages, penalty minutes and blocked shots.

 

[Herby]

Clifford has never exceeded the 7 goals he scored as a rookie in 2011, he had 3 goals in the playoffs that year in 6 games, since then he has 1 goal in 41 playoff games. The concussions have limited his ability to be physical and he is below average defensively. $1.6 mill for a 10-15 point forward who isn't even that physical anymore is just awful, especially for a team up against the cap.

 

[Basilisk]

Can't wait to move on from some of these bottom six guys.

Lewis had some nice moments with the Kings but someone is going to way overpay for him this summer. We will miss some of the little things he does, but what he doesn't do makes it impossible to pay him what someone else will.

Clifford, not totally his fault but he just never developed into the player the Kings expected, high 2nd round pick, comparisons to Lucic and seven years later he is a run of the mill fourth liner. Never should have been in the NHL at 19, that extra year in junior could have further developed an offensive game. $1.6m cap hit is about double what he should make.

Shore, I realize he is still pretty young, but much like with Forbort what is the upside here?

Who would you trade Clifford for?

 

[PJ Kings Hockey]

Def Zone Faceoff % is an area that is one of several that are used, others are (as used in an article from last year :

http://www.torontosun.com/2015/03/13/numbers-guy-all-stats-point-to-bergeron-for-selke




Plus/minus isn't high on the list of consideration, tied to 5 men unit ,not one

Interesting read, Dee. Kopi made a case for himself last year.

As for Kopitar, his plus-9 PenD ranks best among the three. Interestingly, he’s second in every other category, which perhaps is a nod to the Slovenian centre’s well-rounded game.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Can't wait to move on from some of these bottom six guys.

Lewis had some nice moments with the Kings but someone is going to way overpay for him this summer. We will miss some of the little things he does, but what he doesn't do makes it impossible to pay him what someone else will.

Clifford, not totally his fault but he just never developed into the player the Kings expected, high 2nd round pick, comparisons to Lucic and seven years later he is a run of the mill fourth liner. Never should have been in the NHL at 19, that extra year in junior could have further developed an offensive game. $1.6m cap hit is about double what he should make.

Shore, I realize he is still pretty young, but much like with Forbort what is the upside here?

With Lewis in particular, I've been okay with him being a black hole because he was always one of the best forecheckers on the team, brought speed, brought elite defense. THat's changed--the team forechecking in general is MUCH stronger as he's NOT the only one bringing the speed to get in quickly and his defense this year is rotten. I agree, someone is going to throw 3 million at him, wouldn't be surprised if it's Buffalo to get him close to Eichel. I love Lewis, would love him hear, but he's priced himself out most likely and the team shouldn't have both him AND Shore, it's redundant.

 

[Omni Owl]

Lewis is definitely gone if he gets around 3 million, Dowd/Shore/Kempe/Mersch should be able to fill the bottom holes.

 

[Herby]

Who would you trade Clifford for?

The best draft pick you can get, probably a 4th or 5th.

 

[Docgonzo]

I think DL needs to make better pushes for the FAs from Europe, maybe try and convince Prokorin to come over. Once Vinny leaves that 3c looks really ugly unless somebody comes in and surprises us.

 

[Basilisk]

I think DL needs to make better pushes for the FAs from Europe, maybe try and convince Prokorin to come over. Once Vinny leaves that 3c looks really ugly unless somebody comes in and surprises us.

I'd like it if Vinny didn't retire. Of course, Brown would have to go, but that's a given anyway....

 

[Trolfoli]

The expansion draft might save Brown for one more year. If Lombardi isn't able to dump him without paying too much, it might be better to wait and see if an expansion team takes him.

There may be a market for Brown after guys like Okposo/Lucic/L. Eriksson sign ridiculous UFA contracts and some teams miss out.

 

[PJ Kings Hockey]

Brown's one of my favorite players. I understand the economics, but I'd really miss him if he was gone. Same with Greene. Those players are such a huge part of the identity and glue of the team.

 

[kingsfan28]

With Lewis in particular, I've been okay with him being a black hole because he was always one of the best forecheckers on the team, brought speed, brought elite defense. THat's changed--the team forechecking in general is MUCH stronger as he's NOT the only one bringing the speed to get in quickly and his defense this year is rotten. I agree, someone is going to throw 3 million at him, wouldn't be surprised if it's Buffalo to get him close to Eichel. I love Lewis, would love him hear, but he's priced himself out most likely and the team shouldn't have both him AND Shore, it's redundant.

Totally agree. I just can't take another 4 years of him missing grade A chances and having zero ability to finish around the net, especially with the minutes he get .

 

[PJ Kings Hockey]

Not sure where to put this because I don't start threads, but this is a good piece with gifs on how the Kings players execute their system together so well. I highly recommend it.