And while it's more cosmetic than anything, I suspect those 3rd & 4th lines may be other way round.
WC: 2015 — Team Finland
- Thread starter Artorius Horus T
- Start date
- Status
Yeah, well getting into semantics here, but I think seniority will mean the Immonen line goes first on the team sheet. Playing time might favour the Kemppainen line though. Doesn't really matter
.
Loffer
Registered User
- Sep 22, 2011
- 3,938
- 427
And they did it again!? - Risto out?! LOL WAT?! -- C'mon now, this is only pathetic. -Okay, it's a ****ing disgrace, too. --And don't say "precompetition". - I tell you this "precompetition" means nada, nothing, rien, nichts, ingenting, nitseko - for such prolific and "profilic" players like Ristolainen. --He should have been a lock to begin with. - What a bad "joke". "
" 
" 
SoupyFIN
#OneTerritory
- Nov 7, 2011
- 41,382
- 3,380
Not sure how to feel about Rinne, his post All-Star game stats are pretty bad.
"Just give it a few games, it'll start working on the big ice", yeah right. I don't care if you have to play Barkov with two freakin' grinders, JJ is the last guy you put on his line.
"Just give it a few games, it'll start working on the big ice", yeah right. I don't care if you have to play Barkov with two freakin' grinders, JJ is the last guy you put on his line.
While I think he should have made it too, this is just plain and gross overreaction. I wouldn't exactly call a rookie d-man in a bottom feeder team "profilic". Let's give him a season or two more before we go there.
It's also kinda hard to blame Jalonen of dissing the young, since equally "profilic" Lindell did make the cut. Yet I suspect nobody would have batted a lash if they ended up replacing him Lajunen. Matter of fact, it'd be nice to see how up in arms you kids were if the result was the same but Risto was the kid ripping up the league with TPS while Lindell had spent the season trying to bail Kari out in the Stars.
Loffer
Registered User
- Sep 22, 2011
- 3,938
- 427
While I think he should have made it too, this is just plain and gross overreaction. I wouldn't exactly call a rookie d-man in a bottom feeder team "profilic". Let's give him a season or two more before we go there.
It's also kinda hard to blame Jalonen of dissing the young, since equally "profilic" Lindell did make the cut. Yet I suspect nobody would have batted a lash if they ended up replacing him Lajunen. Matter of fact, it'd be nice to see how up in arms you kids were if the result was the same but Risto was the kid ripping up the league with TPS while Lindell had spent the season trying to bail Kari out in the Stars.
I dunno, man. I dunno. This is an emotional blow. No matter how you slice it. No Risto - No Gold - No Party. That's how I see it. I "know" it.
No Risto - No Gold - No Party. That's how I see it. I "know" it.
Rinne - Gold. However Canada and Russia are scary. Russia can probably do stuff like Tarasenko-Malkin. Then Sweden prob gets Erik Karlsson etc. Then Czech as the home team with Jagr-Voracek. Going to be a high level tourney for a World Championship tourney.
Sometimes I don't get these Finnish coaches. Skoda Cup should be also a development tourney for some of our high level prospects. Cutting RR and looking some other dmen who made it... 
MMANumminen
Registered User
It would be stupid to not play Donskoi and Kepu together since they've been in same line for years. Lot of Kärpät players, I like. Filppula or Pulu would be awesome add.
I like our team: seems very balanced and competitive. For some more years we will have really shallow depth compared with the top 2-3 teams in any tournament, but the situation will get much better. RR was a marginal call, sure, I would not have axed him, but not a major issue. We will once again be underestimated and will once again play hard and tight and be a serious contender. Different year, same news...
Sometimes I don't get these Finnish coaches. Skoda Cup should be also a development tourney for some of our high level prospects. Cutting RR and looking some other dmen who made it...
This is how it should be. Obviously we can still take the tournament seriously but there should be a development aspect as well, and the emphasis should be for that tournament held every 4 years...
I understand that RR may have had a couple bad games. I'm pretty sure he would've turned it around and he sure as hell ATLEAST has the potential (and even likelihood) of being a lot better in this tournament than Ohtamaa for example. Or dman in this team for that matter. Not to mention that he's going to be a top-3 defenseman for Finland for the next 10 years or so.
When we play Canada we're going to hate the fact that Lepistö can't do jack****.
It's part of the national "trauma" for not winning these events as often as we probably should have. I don't think there's any other nation who takes it as somberly as we do. To that extent, our coaches tend to overthink it at times. It's serious business to them.
Sometimes I think that's perhaps in fact a detriment to winning. Rather than gritting your teeth and adopting the "do your darnest to win" attitude, they should just pick the team that's most fun to watch and go from there. Loosening up might actually help us win a final or two whenever we make it as far, if those are correct who say that our biggest block against winning is mental.
But I really think we're making a mountain out of a molehill over this single cut. Yes, it was pretty much the biggest stupid move I was afraid would happen, but eh. Risto or no Risto, there are still quite a bit of 90-borns in that roster. Saros, Lindell, Jokipakka, Barkov, Hartikainen, Donskoi... I think that's a record amount. Of course, given how the oldest players born on said decade are turning 25 this year, you might say it's just natural or more like about time.
Last edited:
Develop for what? It's unlikely that NHL players will play in Olympics anymore and Ristolainen has quite guaranteed spot for World Cup next year, because it's an NHL tournament held in NA in small rinks. 'Potential' is quite bad excuse too. Hypothetical future potential doesn't make him any better today. One golden goal against some kids doesn't change that.
Ristolainen isn't a profilic player yet. Hopefully he becomes one. I'm sure Ristolainen knows he didn't fare well in those preliminary games and understands why he was dropped. It's the fans who've gone berserk about this, not Ristolainen himself.
Buffalo management tried its best to make the team lose, so maybe it's not a coincidence that Ristolainen got a lot of ice time. Win-win for Sabres: Ristolainen could play a lot and it didn't ruin the possibilities to be worst team in NHL. I'm not saying Ristolainen was bad, but there was no reason for Sabres to limit his ice time even if he wasn't shining.
Risingwind
Registered User
- Feb 26, 2015
- 595
- 107
If we forget the achievements and skill levels of individual players and just focus on the context, it becomes analogous to how Sidney Crosby didn't single-handedly win the Stanley Cup. Hockey is a team sport. If you can critisize the +/- record you can more or less use the same arguments against Crosby. I really don't wish to derail this discussion towards someone like Crosby but that was the first player I thought of that matches. The point is that focusing on a single stat gives a very shallow view to how a player would succeed in a different team.
This and especially this. I can live without RR in the team, it just makes me go
at the coaching staff.If this team really gels quickly and becomes a real team (like Finnish teams often have) AND over-achieves, there is a good chance for a medal. If not, there is not a ****ing chance in hell, based on looking at rosters of Canada, Czech, Sweden and Russia.
Edit: And Rinne has to be way better than he has been this year since his injury.
Edit: And Rinne has to be way better than he has been this year since his injury.
There's nothing concrete to show that NHL players wouldn't play in Olympics. As long as NHLPA wants to go I'm pretty sure they're going.
Hypothetical future potential in Ristolainen's case is that there is a good likelihood that he outplays many of the defensemen on that list if he gets his game going. Weigh that against what Ohtamaa potentially brings to the table for this tournament. Yeah he's solid but there's not much upside. A guy like RR has the potential to be a key factor in this tournament, unlike many of our dmen chosen. That's pretty much what I was talking about potential.
He's not far from it, we need guys like him to break in the NT. Obviously it's not the players role to go nuts in the media.
If you read the Sabres' forum, fans were raving about how much he developed over the season and how he was a legitimate top pairing defenseman for the team. I don't believe for a second that he got icetime so that the team could be worse. Also coaches don't coach their team with the draft in mind, only the management does that. Coaches coach to win.
YARR123: NHL was very reluctant to go to Sochi, and according to NHL managers they're much less eager to go to South Korea. They have resurrected World Cup, they've planned Ryder Cup like international tournament for 2018 and another World Cup then in 2020. I'd be positively surprised if NHL players play also in South Korea.
2018 is three years away, so why should Ristolainen be 'developed' in WHC now? He'll be good enough in 2018 anyway, or the reality has not met the expectations. Määttä, for example, was 19 years in Sochi and hadn't played a single game in national team, but still was good enough without any break-ins.
Ristolainen got many games to show what he can do, but he was one the worst defenders. If he really is such good and way better than others, he would be part of the team now. What a defender can do in NHL does not necessarily directly translate to big ice and playing style. Talking about 'potential' and 'upsides' is pure fortune-telling, and KJ can't build a team based on that.
Ristolainen will hopefully be part of our national team core in future, but currently he's totally replaceable. I may not agree with KJ, but I understand him.
2018 is three years away, so why should Ristolainen be 'developed' in WHC now? He'll be good enough in 2018 anyway, or the reality has not met the expectations. Määttä, for example, was 19 years in Sochi and hadn't played a single game in national team, but still was good enough without any break-ins.
Ristolainen got many games to show what he can do, but he was one the worst defenders. If he really is such good and way better than others, he would be part of the team now. What a defender can do in NHL does not necessarily directly translate to big ice and playing style. Talking about 'potential' and 'upsides' is pure fortune-telling, and KJ can't build a team based on that.
Ristolainen will hopefully be part of our national team core in future, but currently he's totally replaceable. I may not agree with KJ, but I understand him.
So, is the roster of the Finnish team not yet definitevely composed? Will there any players from the NHL and if yes who? How many players from Kärpät Oulu and/or Tappara Tampere does KJ intend to mobilize?
It is with 99% certainty the one posted a couple of pages back. Only potential addition they'll take is Valtteri Filppula if Tampa loses to Detroit and he wants to come. Otherwise the squad is set.
As you can see for yourself, Jalonen took two forwards from Kärpät and no players from Tappara.
Well, nothing has been decided and it just seems like saying no now to NHLers in the next olympics is a tactic to gain an advantageous position when the matter is actually discussed between NHL and NHLPA. I don't think they have the leverage to say no eventually. Maybe I'm wrong but that's my view.
I'm not saying he needs a "break-in" in order to succeed. I'm saying that the experience RR can gain here can be very beneficial in the future, compared to the fact that many of our dmen in these games will have no chance of making any best-on-best teams.
I'm not sure I agree, potential and upside are questions of risk and reward.
I agree that he should have been able to show more and based on performances from these 4 games he shouldn't be on the team. But I would be willing to give him the benefit of the doubt, as everyone knows how good he can be, everyone knows what he can bring to the table if everything clicks. I think that including him in the roster is a low risk high reward move, and that should in my opinion override his poor-ish performance in the games prior.
I fully agree that he's replacable. I just think KJ is overthinking here. First of all, taking RR instead of one of the lesser dman chosen isn't exactly a big deal and even in the worst case won't have many negative effects. I just think he brings to the table a lot of things that most of the others simply don't. And this goes back to the risk and reward part.
mattihp
Registered User
Somewhat. Though since there are 15 forwards in the squad (with maximum allowed to dress is 14), my guess is that they're still uncertain if Komarov or Immonen are able to play at all.
Wings4Life
Registered User
What do your defensive pairings look like? And what additions are still possible to your D?
Surprised to see Risto cut TBH, but Finland is always a threat.
Surprised to see Risto cut TBH, but Finland is always a threat.
YARR123: To the coach WHC is about winning and not about providing beneficial experience for players. Fans may think differently. I feel you're overrating what Ristolainen can bring on table in WHC on big ice right now. He's not proven solid in these circumstances and as I said earlier, it's all fortune-telling to talk about upsides or potential, because he's been one of the worst defenders so far. You and I have right to believe that Ristolainen would be fine in WHC, but it's just hopeful speculation and KJ can not be blamed for leaving him out.
Worst case is that team loses an important game because of a player who isn't solid enough. It's a good reason to not select such player. You say that RR is low risk - high reward. Preliminary games just proved that he was not 'low risk'. Some have criticized selection of Mäntylä. I don't think Mäntylä replaced RR. I think Lindell took place of RR, and KJ saw less risk and more reward in him. And it's not just necessarily the games, KJ knows also how they've looked in training sessions. We don't know that, and we see only the tip of the iceberg anyway.
Worst case is that team loses an important game because of a player who isn't solid enough. It's a good reason to not select such player. You say that RR is low risk - high reward. Preliminary games just proved that he was not 'low risk'. Some have criticized selection of Mäntylä. I don't think Mäntylä replaced RR. I think Lindell took place of RR, and KJ saw less risk and more reward in him. And it's not just necessarily the games, KJ knows also how they've looked in training sessions. We don't know that, and we see only the tip of the iceberg anyway.
- Status
Latest posts
-
-
"Nobody is afraid of Bedard"....Bruce Boudreau- Latest: WhiskeyYerTheDevils
