Speculation: 2014 Trade Deadline Discussion - Part IX - The Buffalo Syndrome

[Mr Jiggyfly]

Friedman commented saying the Nucks are high on Sutter. Wanted him in the past and still like him. That gets the conversation going at the very least. And if they want a D-man as the second piece, then we're in as good a position as any team in the league to meet their demands.

DP is our top prospect. Despres is ready for legit NHL minutes. And we have a few guys in the minors that would serve as quality third pieces in a deal.

I think Sutter could be a good second line pivot. He has speed, hands, vision and a nice shot. He just keeps getting put in a defensive role. He won't be dominant, but I could see him hitting 50+ points in that role.

Out of Despres, Harrington and DP, I would rather lose Harrington. But I thought Maatta was the most expendable in the Iggy scenarios last season so whatever.

I just feel really strongly that Despres needs to be part of this core.

 

[mpp9]

I guess that works, but we don't know about Letang and his future yet.

We can't deal for Kesler without Letang on LTIR. Vokoun is coming back so it's just not doable. I doubt we're making offers for Kesler without realizing that.

 

[KIRK]

I think Sutter could be a good second line pivot. He has speed, hands, vision and a nice shot. He just keeps getting put in a defensive role. He won't be dominant, but I could see him hitting 50+ points in that role.

Out of Despres, Harrington and DP, I would rather lose Harrington. But I thought Maatta was the most expendable in the Iggy scenarios last season so whatever.

I just feel really strongly that Despres needs to be part of this core.

I can agree with Harrington being most expendable. BUT, to Vancouver right now, would Harrington or Despres have greater value?

I think Despres is worth more than Harrington. NHL ready, with his size and transition game is tough to overlook. DP is our top prospect so he's definitely highest on the totem pole though.

I think he's worth more now too. I think he'd be fine with Torts too. I just am trying to reconcile things with the idea that Vancouver was scouting WBS.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

As long as Adams isn't on the table . . .

BTW, the more I think about it . . . I'll bet Shero offered Sutter, Despres, and a 1st. Think about it. The 1st, especially in this draft, means **** to him. Despres means less.

I'll bet Vancouver asked Sutter, Pouliot, and a 1st.

Just a gut feeling. Also trying to figure out who in the puck they'd be scouting in WBS for a deal. Maybe there's talk of expanding the deal? I wouldn't mind Kassian being added . . .

That's why I opined about Harrington.

Sutter = Sutter
1st > Dumoulin
Harrington today v DP at 18 . . . only thing I don't know is how far apart that value is.

Harry doesn't have 8th overall value. Maybe late 1st in a weak draft like this one.

I can't see Harry being a swing guy. DP, ya.

 

[mpp9]

I think Sutter could be a good second line pivot. He has speed, hands, vision and a nice shot. He just keeps getting put in a defensive role. He won't be dominant, but I could see him hitting 50+ points in that role.

Out of Despres, Harrington and DP, I would rather lose Harrington. But I thought Maatta was the most expendable in the Iggy scenarios last season so whatever.

I just feel really strongly that Despres needs to be part of this core.

I agree. Sutter's a smart player. He looked fine with Beau and Neal last season when Geno was out. Not ever going to wow you necessarily, but he can definitely hit top 6 center type numbers on a team lacking one.

If they're going to dick Despres around from here on out, I'd rather they just maximize his value now in a deal for a longterm solution up front.

 

[Speaking Moistly]

I think Sutter could be a good second line pivot. He has speed, hands, vision and a nice shot. He just keeps getting put in a defensive role. He won't be dominant, but I could see him hitting 50+ points in that role.

Out of Despres, Harrington and DP, I would rather lose Harrington. But I thought Maatta was the most expendable in the Iggy scenarios last season so whatever.

I just feel really strongly that Despres needs to be part of this core.

I don't know who I'd rather lose, but Letang has probably made DP even more valuable to the Pens.

As far as Despres, I love him but if they're never going to be fair about him then trade him. It's better to have the other two who will get a fair chance than one of them and a guy the organization mistreats. It's a gross mismanagement of assets and someone being allowed to run amok, but that's what it is.


I don't want to lose Megna.

 

[billybudd]

If this is a huge bidding war like it's being reported, I can't see that package getting it done.

Any time I see the words "huge bidding war" associated with a player, I assume it's the seller who leaked that.

Ex: Dreger: I'm told there's out of control demand for Leaf's third line left wing Nik Kulemin. The Leaf's GM, who happens to be my cousin, is totally not the guy who told me this to try and drive up prices.

Ditto with "half the teams in the league are trying to acquire player X." Because, obviously Kevin Cheveldayoff would know how many phone calls Mike Gillis got in the last 48 hours and would text Elliot Friedman to tell him this.

The reality is Kesler will do what most guys with a NTC do. He'll give a list of 2-6 teams he will waive for, Gillis will look at which of those have pitched him, make one final pass to try and extract an extra asset from each of those teams and, whether it works or not, go with the best offer from that group.

 

[mpp9]

I can agree with Harrington being most expendable. BUT, to Vancouver right now, would Harrington or Despres have greater value?



I think he's worth more now too. I think he'd be fine with Torts too. I just am trying to reconcile things with the idea that Vancouver was scouting WBS.

Sutter+DP+1st is the Nucks price. Maybe Shero is willing to add a D-man in WBS to Sutter+Despres+1st to avoid losing DP.

That'd be dumb IMO, but if Vancouver is willing to add a player on their side, maybe not.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

I can agree with Harrington being most expendable. BUT, to Vancouver right now, would Harrington or Despres have greater value?

I think Despres is a potential stud #2 blueliner.

I see Harrington as a max #4 if things work out. Despres just has more tools and you can't teach his size and skating. The Pens need that for the next ten years... I'm worried Shero is going to get stupid because of DB here...

 

[KIRK]

Harry doesn't have 8th overall value. Maybe late 1st in a weak draft like this one.

I can't see Harry being a swing guy. DP, ya.

Swing guy? No way. Not what I was saying.

Friedman said Vancouver is high on Sutter. So, you can see why they might value that piece similarly to some of the other NHL pieces other teams may be offering.

The 1st is the 1st. It's going to be part of this deal.

As I said, I think Shero offered Despres and Vancouver asked for Pouliot.

What I'm asking is if it is possible that Shero then suggested or Vancouver then asked about Harrington?

Would a Sutter, Dumoulin, #8 overall package be comparable to a Sutter, Harrington, late 1st package?

I also wondered if Harrington might be helped by having been Maatta's partner, the whole London Knights defenseman who slipped further than he should've angle.

Again, just spitballing. Not saying I even 100% buy it. Just trying to figure out why Vancouver might have been scouting WBS.

 

[KIRK]

I think Despres is a potential stud #2 blueliner.

I see Harrington as a max #4 if things work out. Despres just has more tools and you can't teach his size and skating. The Pens need that for the next ten years... I'm worried Shero is going to get stupid because of DB here...

I disagree neither with your evaluation of Despres nor your evaluation of Shero and Bylsma, FWIW.

One day, Despres is going to be a hell of a defenseman somewhere other than Pittsburgh.

Then again, I think Malkin would be a sick two way center (Ron Francis on steroids, to borrow from Pierre) somewhere other than Pittsburgh, so there's that too.

 

[pensfan71]

We can't deal for Kesler without Letang on LTIR. Vokoun is coming back so it's just not doable. I doubt we're making offers for Kesler without realizing that.

Orpik is being traded

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

Any time I see the words "huge bidding war" associated with a player, I assume it's the seller who leaked that.

Ex: Dreger: I'm told there's out of control demand for Leaf's third line left wing Nik Kulemin. The Leaf's GM, who happens to be my cousin, is totally not the guy who told me this to try and drive up prices.

Ditto with "half the teams in the league are trying to acquire player X." Because, obviously Kevin Cheveldayoff would know how many phone calls Mike Gillis got in the last 48 hours and would text Elliot Friedman to tell him this.

The reality is Kesler will do what most guys with a NTC do. He'll give a list of 2-6 teams he will waive for, Gillis will make one final pass to try and extract an extra asset from each of those teams and, whether it works or not, go with the best offer from that group.

Dreger is a shill for Nonis, that is obvious.

In Kesler's case, I'm sure a number of teams want him badly.

I just don't know how much control Kesler has in his NTC.

 

[canadianguy77]

I think Despres is a potential stud #2 blueliner.

I see Harrington as a max #4 if things work out. Despres just has more tools and you can't teach his size and skating. The Pens need that for the next ten years... I'm worried Shero is going to get stupid because of DB here...

DB and RS think they already have that in #44.

 

[KIRK]

Orpik is being traded

There isn't a world so bright in which Brooks Orpik will be traded, which is a shame because Ray Shero could've learned something valuable from his Murray folly last year.

 

[KIRK]

Sutter+DP+1st is the Nucks price. Maybe Shero is willing to add a D-man in WBS to Sutter+Despres+1st to avoid losing DP.

That'd be dumb IMO, but if Vancouver is willing to add a player on their side, maybe not.

I could see that. I definitely could see Sutter, DP, 1st being the deal Vancouver wants. I just doubt that Shero offered it, Fat Boy conjecture notwithstanding.

 

[Speaking Moistly]

Orpik is being traded

There would be tears of happiness.

Dreger is a shill for Nonis, that is obvious.

In Kesler's case, I'm sure a number of teams want him badly.

I just don't know how much control Kesler has in his NTC.

Yeah, but I'm not sure how high that number would be.

 

[billybudd]

Dreger is a shill for Nonis, that is obvious.

In Kesler's case, I'm sure a number of teams want him badly.

I just don't know how much control Kesler has in his NTC.

It's a full NTC. No 6 team "do not trade to" list at the beginning of the year or anything like that. I suppose they could waive him, but that's about all the control the Canucks have on the situation.

Edit: There might be a ton of teams that want him. But bad enough to give up a first, a roster center and a good prospect? That he'd agree to waive for? I'd be surprised if there were more than 5. Probably more like 3.

Edit 2: I mean, take the Flyers. I'm sure the Flyers would love to add Kesler, just because they're them. Guy like him would probably waive to go there (because everybody does).

But they have no need for him, being 4 top 3 centers deep, so are highly unlikely to meet the price.

 

[Ugene Magic]

You are looking at the package wrong... The Pens package is better than the Canes if DP is involved:

Sutter=Sutter
DP 2 years developed > 8th overall
1st > Dumoulin

Could be right on that.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

It's a full NTC. No 6 team "do not trade to" list at the beginning of the year or anything like that. I suppose they could waive him, but that's about all the control the Canucks have on the situation.

Edit: There might be a ton of teams that want him. But bad enough to give up a first, a roster center and a good prospect? That he'd agree to waive for? I'd be surprised if there were more than 5. Probably more like 3.

Despite the NTC, Nucks still have a lot of leverage.

They don't like any deals, they wait till the Summer... Or just keep him.

That's why I think it will still be expensive as hell to get this guy. Shero has a responsibility to give it a shot, but also needs to pull back if things get stupid.

 

[Michael8771*]

I think Despres is worth more than Harrington. NHL ready, with his size and transition game is tough to overlook. DP is our top prospect so he's definitely highest on the totem pole though.

Despres is currently more NHL ready, however long term it's hard to suggest he's the better player. Harrington is our most prized defensive defensemen prospect, that I feel very confident in saying. We do have more guys in the mold of a Despres then a Harrington. That said I like Despres a lot!

 

[mpp9]

Despite the NTC, Nucks still have a lot of leverage.

They don't like any deals, they wait till the Summer... Or just keep him.

That's why I think it will still be expensive as hell to get this guy. Shero has a responsibility to give it a shot, but also needs to pull back if things get stupid.

It appears the board's pretty split on acquiring the guy. Would you play him with Sid, roll the 3C model, something inbetween?

I view it as acquiring someone who can be a gamebreaker in a playoff series. Fills a number of roles. And addresses alot of weaknesses.

 

[Speaking Moistly]

Despite the NTC, Nucks still have a lot of leverage.

They don't like any deals, they wait till the Summer... Or just keep him.

That's why I think it will still be expensive as hell to get this guy. Shero has a responsibility to give it a shot, but also needs to pull back if things get stupid.

They still have leverage, they just may not have sheer numbers as far as teams going after him. NTC, teams being able to afford him, teams who just aren't interested, teams with the necessary assets, etc. It narrows the pool down.

This might just be a guy who the offer will never be good enough for. Shero really needs to not screw this up, though.

 

[billybudd]

Despite the NTC, Nucks still have a lot of leverage.

They don't like any deals, they wait till the Summer... Or just keep him.

Can they? I'm not so sure. That would be $11 million of dead weight (for the purposes of a rebuild, which the Canucks are doing) burning a hole in Acquilini's bank account. Kesler will never again be worth what he is right this second.

Put yourself in his shoes, this guy plays with his arm hanging off. If he wants out and doesn't get out? His thoughts immediately go to preserving himself for UFA. If he gets a hangnail after not being traded, he's sitting out, just in case. That's what his agent will tell him to do.

This will only add to the injury prone tag on future trade value. But it won't hurt his UFA value (all the agent has to do is say "hey, just give him a physical if you don't trust me").

They kept Luongo, but they had to keep Luongo, or else they'd have been torched by cap recapture when he retired for someone else. That doesn't apply here.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

It appears the board's pretty split on acquiring the guy. Would you play him with Sid, roll the 3C model, something inbetween?

I view it as acquiring someone who can be a gamebreaker in a playoff series. Fills a number of roles. And addresses alot of weaknesses.

I honestly just want Hemsky and Winchester, then see what happens. If they gas out like usual, at least your org isn't setback.

I admit, as much as I dig Hemsky, I'd prefer Kesler to be in there agt the likes of Boston, or the beasts of the West... But he doesn't guarantee anything.

I don't like the idea of another pipe draining trade that puts all of the pressure on DB to win in the playoffs. Dude can't seem to handle it... Maybe he needs an underdog role.. Like the reg season and a depleted roster...