Speculation: 2014 Trade Deadline Discussion - Part IX - The Buffalo Syndrome

[Honour Over Glory]

I am absolutely ecstatic that Buffalo traded Ott to the Blues and Stewart to the Sabres, now I will NEVER HAVE TO HEAR PEOPLE mention those two idiots in trade proposals ever again.

Thank goodness.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

All this discussion about guys like Hemsky, Kesler, Stewart, Kulemin, etc., and you just know that in the end Shero will either stand pat or trade for some random 3rd/4th line scrub and call it a day.

We're all discussing who to give up for a guy like Kesler, while Shero will end up trading a 4th round pick for Ryan Smyth or Vern Fiddler and call it a day.

 

[Michael8771*]

I am absolutely ecstatic that Buffalo traded Ott to the Blues and Stewart to the Sabres, now I will NEVER HAVE TO HEAR PEOPLE mention those two idiots in trade proposals ever again.

Thank goodness.

Stewart may be traded yet again though.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

Can they? I'm not so sure. That would be $11 million of dead weight (for the purposes of a rebuild, which the Canucks are doing) burning a hole in Acquilini's bank account. Kesler will never again be worth what he is right this second.

Put yourself in his shoes, this guy plays with his arm hanging off. If he wants out and doesn't get out? His thoughts immediately go to preserving himself for UFA. If he gets a hangnail after not being traded, he's sitting out, just in case. That's what his agent will tell him to do.

This will only add to the injury prone tag on future trade value. But it won't hurt his UFA value (all the agent has to do is say "hey, just give him a physical if you don't trust me").

They kept Luongo, but they had to keep Luongo, or else they'd have been torched by cap recapture when he retired for someone else. That doesn't apply here.

He still has two years after this one though. His value may be higher now than the summer, but maybe not.

Just seeing some of the names being tossed out to get this guy gives me the shakes. And like I said... It's the thought of losing more future assets for another run, and having DB controlling the end game through next season at least.

I.. dunno... red flags are going off for me.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

I honestly just want Hemsky and Winchester, then see what happens. If they gas out like usual, at least your org isn't setback.

I admit, as much as I dig Hemsky, I'd prefer Kesler to be in there agt the likes of Boston, or the beasts of the West... But he doesn't guarantee anything.

I don't like the idea of another pipe draining trade that puts all of the pressure on DB to win in the playoffs. Dude can't seem to handle it... Maybe he needs an underdog role.. Like the reg season and a depleted roster...

Wasn't Winchester just traded recently? He's in the AHL, not sure if Wild have plans for him to play for their team or not.

Hemsky I am all for. I think he'd be a great fit in Pittsburgh despite the opinions of people that assume he's not capable of much.

 

[Michael8771*]

All this discussion about guys like Hemsky, Kesler, Stewart, Kulemin, etc., and you just know that in the end Shero will either stand pat or trade for some random 3rd/4th line scrub and call it a day.

We're all discussing who to give up for a guy like Kesler, while Shero will end up trading a 4th round pick for Ryan Smyth or Vern Fiddler and call it a day.

Roberts, Hossa, Kunitz, Guerin, Neal and Iginla are some pretty big names our fearless leader has brought to da Burg. History suggests he's not opposed to pulling the trigger and bringing a big name to the big city in SWPA!

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Stewart may be traded yet again though.

I hate all of you.

 

[Michael8771*]

I hate all of you.

I can't blame you, I'm just passing on the speculation.

Don't worry, only five days to go.

 

[pensfan71]

I am absolutely ecstatic that Buffalo traded Ott to the Blues and Stewart to the Sabres, now I will NEVER HAVE TO HEAR PEOPLE mention those two idiots in trade proposals ever again.

Thank goodness.

Stewart is soooo getting traded again

 

[Speaking Moistly]

I think I'd rather have Stewart than Kesler, less options for poor DB.

Watch Shero go for a 'veteran' defenseman and be done. They don't have Crosby and Malkin on defense, you know?

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

Wasn't Winchester just traded recently? He's in the AHL, not sure if Wild have plans for him to play for their team or not.

Hemsky I am all for. I think he'd be a great fit in Pittsburgh despite the opinions of people that assume he's not capable of much.

Jesse.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Roberts, Hossa, Kunitz, Guerin, Neal and Iginla are some pretty big names our fearless leader has brought to da Burg. History suggests he's not opposed to pulling the trigger and bringing a big name to the big city in SWPA!

He seemed more courageous to take chances before he won his Cup. Since then, only Neal and Iginla are the only two "impact" forwards that have been acquired at or around the deadline.

Complacency, or just not the right deal available? Your guess is as good as mine.

 

[jmelm]

I don't think Shero offered Sutter and Pouliot. I think he offered Sutter and Despres. I think Vancouver wants Sutter and Pouliot. That they are in WBS suggests to me that maybe the add is a WBS guy of Harrington is in play. Tough to tell. I just think if Pouliot really were on the table, then this deal is done already.

Yeah I could see that. Sutter is a must for Vancouver. Shero is willing to deal Despres. Vancouver wants DP.

It is 100% complete conjecture to say that Vancouver wants Despres, but Shero is only willing to deal X player. All we actually know is that DP was put on the table and then taken off. And until we hear from a LeBrun/McKenzie or the like that the Pens are offering players X/Y/Z, or which player(s) VAN is asking for, we have ZERO idea what players are even in the conversation of what either team wants or is willing to give. People are jumping from theories to thinking they're facts without even thinking it through.

Also, no chance that the Pens trade 2 Dmen in 1 deal (or better stated, 2 Dmen for 1 forward). Perhaps they trade one of Despres/Pouliot/Harrington/Dumoulin, but no chance do they trade two of those guys for only 1 forward, unless that forward is a young superstar (Eberle, Yakupov, Kane, etc). And the funny thing is that the types of packages being proposed on here could probably land one of those players.

I love Kesler, and while he has term, he only has 1 year left and we have NO idea if he even wants to play RW, even if it's with Crosby. Those are 2 huge quetsionmarks, and 2 questions that are WAY too big for us to move those types of assets without talking to Kesler's camp first to find out (A) if he'd want to stay here long term, and (B) if he would want to play RW. Kesler is not a guy who wants to play 3rd line centre, and he would be wasted in that role with the (lack of talent) he'd be surrounded with over the next year or two.

We talk about not having depth at forward, and that is a legitimate issue. If we're trading 3 big pieces for anything less than a long-term superstar, we'll soon see a team that doesn't have particularly good depth either at forward OR defense. And I believe this is very obvious to Shero, and believe that without the certainty of a healthy Letang for the next 8 years, and with neither Nisky nor Martin extended, it's just WAY too much of a risk trading 3 big pieces. 2 pieces? Sure, that's a hell of a lot easier to swallow. But to lose one of our only good young forwards (Bennett/Megna/Archibald) and/or to lose 1 or 2 of our top 4 Dmen prospects, and/or also a first round pick is just insane.

I think Despres is a potential stud #2 blueliner.

I see Harrington as a max #4 if things work out. Despres just has more tools and you can't teach his size and skating. The Pens need that for the next ten years... I'm worried Shero is going to get stupid because of DB here...

You're right: Despres has tremendous upside, but he's also less of a sure-thing than Harrington. And Harrington will be a top 4 Dman, playing alongside a #1 guy like a Maatta or Letang. So even if you only consider him a #4 (I think his upside is more like a #2/3 guy), he's still that guy who will be an integral part of a top pair. He'll be a guy who plays 20+ minutes/game.

So depending on what some teams have or don't have in their stable, they may value Harrington more than Despres because he's a can't miss player. Our injuries on D may be a blessing in disguise (provided Letang at least returns next season) because it may just be the thing that prevents us from giving up these guys before they have the chance to prove to us a little more of what we have in each player, and just which guy we would prefer to give up.

And also, on this whole trading for a forward thing: as much as I would love to see the Pens win it this year, I don't think this is the year to mortgage the future. This summer could actually see a pretty strong crop of UFA forwards -- perhaps the best in a long time: Vanek, Cammalleri, Gaborik, Hemsky, Kulemin, Moulson, Setoguchi, etc. And, in addition, a bunch of guys with term who we know could be on the move (E.Kane, Eberle or Yakupov, Stewart, Baertschi, etc.). I just think there is so much potential for us to make a shrewd signing or two, or actually make a really good 1 for 1 hockey trade (i.e. one of our Dmen OR our 1st for one of those guys with term), as opposed to make one of these "3 pieces for 1" deadline over-payment trade.

 

[Michael8771*]

Wasn't Winchester just traded recently? He's in the AHL, not sure if Wild have plans for him to play for their team or not.

Hemsky I am all for. I think he'd be a great fit in Pittsburgh despite the opinions of people that assume he's not capable of much.

Hell no!

 

[pensfan71]

Hell no!

Why, right handed shot for Sid to set up in the slot, he goes to the hard areas too

 

[billybudd]

He still has two years after this one though. His value may be higher now than the summer, but maybe not.

Just seeing some of the names being tossed out to get this guy gives me the shakes. And like I said... It's the thought of losing more future assets for another run, and having DB controlling the end game through next season at least.

I.. dunno... red flags are going off for me.

If you're saying the team's already "too Vegas" for Dan to handle and a Ryan Kesler would be the last Dealer Black Jack on his way to emptying his bank account, then that's more than possible. Might even be probable.

Not every coach is Scotty Bowman. They can't all corral a herd of big egos and bigger names. Dave Lewis failed miserably. Maybe Dan's not one of the coaches who can.

But I'm sort of looking past the question of WWDD at whether this a) is doable and b) whether Shero would do it. The more I consider it, the more I think the answers are a) probably and b) definitely yes.

I guess the good-ish news, if this does get done, would be that, in the event that Dan flames out and does get fired in this offseason or the next, there's an available, tailor-made, American, "exciting, marketable hockey" replacement Shero's recently become acquainted with who has a track record of success with "Vegas" teams in Peter Laviollette.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Hell no!

He might be had for real cheap and hopefully, the Oilers can even eat a bit of his salary. Hemsky could be a very motivated player if he joined a contending team, I've seen glimpses of Ales when he's on fire and man, it reminds me of how good he was before he hurt his shoulders.

 

[WayneSid9987]

It's interesting that Shero called the Nucks regarding Kesler before the Olympics. I'll never blame Shero for atleast trying. Last year he landed almost every big name available at the deadline. I just hate the DB/Shero union though.

 

[KIRK]

I honestly just want Hemsky and Winchester, then see what happens. If they gas out like usual, at least your org isn't setback.

I admit, as much as I dig Hemsky, I'd prefer Kesler to be in there agt the likes of Boston, or the beasts of the West... But he doesn't guarantee anything.

I don't like the idea of another pipe draining trade that puts all of the pressure on DB to win in the playoffs. Dude can't seem to handle it... Maybe he needs an underdog role.. Like the reg season and a depleted roster...

Fine, then let's do it right.

No problem with buying some rentals, but SELL too.

There is NO reason, aside from the GM and coach being idiots, NOT to have Orpik on the market, like San Jose did with Murray last year.

I don't want to move Niskanen, but he's priced himself out. Put him on the market and see if someone will pay a premium. If so, then great. If not, then keep him.

Same for JJ. And, I'd see if there are any buyers for Engo and Glass too.

 

[KIRK]

It is 100% complete conjecture to say that Vancouver wants Despres, but Shero is only willing to deal X player. All we actually know is that DP was put on the table and then taken off. And until we hear from a LeBrun/McKenzie or the like that the Pens are offering players X/Y/Z, or which player(s) VAN is asking for, we have ZERO idea what players are even in the conversation of what either team wants or is willing to give. People are jumping from theories to thinking they're facts without even thinking it through.

Also, no chance that the Pens trade 2 Dmen in 1 deal (or better stated, 2 Dmen for 1 forward). Perhaps they trade one of Despres/Pouliot/Harrington/Dumoulin, but no chance do they trade two of those guys for only 1 forward, unless that forward is a young superstar (Eberle, Yakupov, Kane, etc). And the funny thing is that the types of packages being proposed on here could probably land one of those players.

I love Kesler, and while he has term, he only has 1 year left and we have NO idea if he even wants to play RW, even if it's with Crosby. Those are 2 huge quetsionmarks, and 2 questions that are WAY too big for us to move those types of assets without talking to Kesler's camp first to find out (A) if he'd want to stay here long term, and (B) if he would want to play RW. Kesler is not a guy who wants to play 3rd line centre, and he would be wasted in that role with the (lack of talent) he'd be surrounded with over the next year or two.

We talk about not having depth at forward, and that is a legitimate issue. If we're trading 3 big pieces for anything less than a long-term superstar, we'll soon see a team that doesn't have particularly good depth either at forward OR defense. And I believe this is very obvious to Shero, and believe that without the certainty of a healthy Letang for the next 8 years, and with neither Nisky nor Martin extended, it's just WAY too much of a risk trading 3 big pieces. 2 pieces? Sure, that's a hell of a lot easier to swallow. But to lose one of our only good young forwards (Bennett/Megna/Archibald) and/or to lose 1 or 2 of our top 4 Dmen prospects, and/or also a first round pick is just insane.



You're right: Despres has tremendous upside, but he's also less of a sure-thing than Harrington. And Harrington will be a top 4 Dman, playing alongside a #1 guy like a Maatta or Letang. So even if you only consider him a #4 (I think his upside is more like a #2/3 guy), he's still that guy who will be an integral part of a top pair. He'll be a guy who plays 20+ minutes/game.

So depending on what some teams have or don't have in their stable, they may value Harrington more than Despres because he's a can't miss player. Our injuries on D may be a blessing in disguise (provided Letang at least returns next season) because it may just be the thing that prevents us from giving up these guys before they have the chance to prove to us a little more of what we have in each player, and just which guy we would prefer to give up.

And also, on this whole trading for a forward thing: as much as I would love to see the Pens win it this year, I don't think this is the year to mortgage the future. This summer could actually see a pretty strong crop of UFA forwards -- perhaps the best in a long time: Vanek, Cammalleri, Gaborik, Hemsky, Kulemin, Moulson, Setoguchi, etc. And, in addition, a bunch of guys with term who we know could be on the move (E.Kane, Eberle or Yakupov, Stewart, Baertschi, etc.). I just think there is so much potential for us to make a shrewd signing or two, or actually make a really good 1 for 1 hockey trade (i.e. one of our Dmen OR our 1st for one of those guys with term), as opposed to make one of these "3 pieces for 1" deadline over-payment trade.

Actually, we do NOT know that DP was put on the table. I've seen a Nucks guy suggest it was Despres, not DP.

What I opined, given what the organization thinks of Despres, is that they offered Despres and Vancouver asked DP.

I said that. Mpp9 said that. And, then you say it's 100% conjecture to say Vancouver wants Despres when we said the exact opposite . . . that they don't want Despres, that they want DP instead.

Call any of it conjecture, but please don't quote and then blatantly misrepresent what I wrote. My conjecture is that Shero OFFERED Sutter, Despres, 1st and Vancouver ASKED Sutter, DP, 1st. I then suggested that PERHAPS Vancouver was scouting WBS tonight because Sutter, Harrington, 1st was suggested as a middle ground.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Would it really be bad if Pouliot was on the table? Canucks development staff suck so hard, Pouliot would flame out. Despres would actually be a good move for them because he's a guy that has turned pro, played in the NHL and is in actual NHL/AHL development and NHL ready and has proven it.

If Gillis had half a brain, he'd target him knowing how hard his team sucks at developing young players.

Chances are, Horvat jumps to the NHL next year because the Canucks are going to be desperate for any kind of help and hope because i see them definitely missing the playoffs, a guy like Sutter would be solid for them, he can maybe flourish in the Western Conference as well.

I think people are undervaluing the potential package of Sutter, Despres, 1st. Or even if it was Pouliot, which I would hope so because I would truly rather keep Simon over him, I'd make that move and hope the Canucks throw in something else as well since Shero likes to usually maximize the trade as much as he can and get a bit extra in return, even if it's a guy the Canucks have given up on (like Nisky in the Stars trade).

I agree with everyone about Kesler being an amazing fit for this team and for Crosby's RW. He's the type of player that is perfect for this team and Bylsma-proof.

 

[KIRK]

Would it really be bad if Pouliot was on the table? Canucks development staff suck so hard, Pouliot would flame out. Despres would actually be a good move for them because he's a guy that has turned pro, played in the NHL and is in actual NHL/AHL development and NHL ready and has proven it.

If Gillis had half a brain, he'd target him knowing how hard his team sucks at developing young players.

Chances are, Horvat jumps to the NHL next year because the Canucks are going to be desperate for any kind of help and hope because i see them definitely missing the playoffs, a guy like Sutter would be solid for them, he can maybe flourish in the Western Conference as well.

I think people are undervaluing the potential package of Sutter, Despres, 1st. Or even if it was Pouliot, which I would hope so because I would truly rather keep Simon over him, I'd make that move and hope the Canucks throw in something else as well since Shero likes to usually maximize the trade as much as he can and get a bit extra in return, even if it's a guy the Canucks have given up on (like Nisky in the Stars trade).

I agree with everyone about Kesler being an amazing fit for this team and for Crosby's RW. He's the type of player that is perfect for this team and Bylsma-proof.

Leaving aside the rest of what you write, my opinion is that only Sid, Geno, Neal, and Maatta should NOT be on the table. Anyone and everyone else should be available for a hockey trade.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

I think sometimes my anger towards his coaching decisions is misplaced, some of it should be on him for sure, but a lot of it should also be on the GM that just sits back and lets his coach do the stupid stuff he does without really repercussion it seems.

In any case, 3 more days until Deadline Day.

I wish it to be over. I wonder how many prospects Shero sacrifices for 30+ yr olds.

Who said his time in Pittsburgh is winding down?

Miss the word might be? Shero had to fight to get him that extension, I think he's going to be 100% judged on the playoffs, it doesn't matter if the Pens make the playoffs as an 8th place team, which they won't, but if they flame out in the playoffs yet again, he's gone I think. Ownership might be getting impatient and Shero should be as well, wasting away the prime years of his core by keeping a coach that just crumbles in the face of adversity in the playoffs but some how, rises to the occasion during the season when he has a insane amount of key injuries.

 

[ObsessedCreative*]

Whatever our playoff avatars will be this year, mine will have THIS some how incorporated into it!

 

[KIRK]

Whatever our playoff avatars will be this year, mine will have THIS some how incorporated into it!

Applicable to all things Penguins, including expectations for Shero's management of the trade deadline.