Speculation: 2014 Offseason - Roster Building / Trade Speculation Thread IV

[Thirty One]

Yes only. You're the expert and I respect your posts. What is generally the highest percentage each year?

55%-58% is normally the highest. And those teams are very successful. So I don't see why you're looking at this as an "only".

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

-31-, who is the better player, Dan Girardi or Anton Stralman, and is it strictly because of Corsi stats?

(patiently waits for indirect answer and more macro-possession stats preaching)

 

[SA16]

That'd be a hell of a team.

But they'd still only possess the puck between 50 and 60 percent of the time and need to defend without it.

EDIT: And some of the players' Corsi ratings would go down because of that fact, and they would be viewed as liabilities.

This is backwards. Almost every players CORSI would go up not down as they for the most part would be playing against weaker competition.

 

[jerseyjinx94]

55%-58% is normally the highest. And those teams are very successful. So I don't see why you're looking at this as an "only".

Okay no that's my point. Thank you. So 42-45 percent of the time you're playing without the puck. So there is value in having players who play well without the puck, blocking shots, and hitting.

You can assemble a team of players with the best Corsi ratings and what would happen is some of their ratings would drop significantly because some of them would be on the ice when their team doesn't have the puck, and they'd be viewed as a liability by their team's fans.

 

[jerseyjinx94]

This is backwards. Almost every players CORSI would go up not down as they for the most part would be playing against weaker competition.

No it wouldn't. How is that possible? If the best team possesses the puck 58% of the time - and you assemble all the best CORSI players - they will not possess the puck 75-80 percent of the time. It will be 55-58% just like it is now because that's not how hockey works. Hence - some of their CORSI ratings would go down.

 

[Thirty One]

-31-, who is the better player, Dan Girardi or Anton Stralman, and is it strictly because of Corsi stats?

(patiently waits for indirect answer and more macro-possession stats preaching)

I'd lean Girardi, but I don't know. Stralman tends to have a positive impact on the possession game of those he plays with, and Girardi the opposite. How much of that is because of the tougher minutes Girardi plays, I can't be sure.

Why is this the issue? I want both in the lineup next season.

If you want to grill me for not giving a definite answer, go ahead. I would suggest you consider taking that stance more often, however. You'd make an ass of yourself far less often.

 

[Thirty One]

Okay no that's my point. Thank you. So 42-45 percent of the time you're playing without the puck. So there is value in having players who play well without the puck, blocking shots, and hitting.

You can assemble a team of players with the best Corsi ratings and what would happen is some of their ratings would drop significantly because some of them would be on the ice when their team doesn't have the puck, and they'd be viewed as a liability by their team's fans.

Sure, but I'd much rather have a group of 55% players ok without the puck than 45% players who excel without it.

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

I'd lean Girardi, but I don't know. Stralman tends to have a positive impact on the possession game of those he plays with, and Girardi the opposite. How much of that is because of the tougher minutes Girardi plays, I can't be sure.

Why is this the issue? I want both in the lineup next season.

If you want to grill me for not giving a definite answer, go ahead. I would suggest you consider taking that stance more often, however. You'd make an ass of yourself far less often.

If my bashing of Zuccarello's defensive play before he had a very good season is your best ammo, Ill take it.

Anyway, this whole thing started because some posters seem to think Stralman is a better (and in some cases, MUCH better) player than Girardi. The only evidence being provided are possession stats. And, while important, I think if thats the only thing you're coming to the table with, its a ******** argument. I'd lean Girardi, too.

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

Sure, but I'd much rather have a group of 55% players ok without the puck than 45% players who excel without it.

The Rangers should teach Lundqvist how to stick handle.

 

[Thirty One]

If my bashing of Zuccarello's defensive play before he had a very good season is your best ammo, Ill take it.

Anyway, this whole thing started because some posters seem to think Stralman is a better (and in some cases, MUCH better) player than Girardi. The only evidence being provided are possession stats. And, while important, I think if thats the only thing you're coming to the table with, its a ******** argument. I'd lean Girardi, too.

I was more referring to your chronic pissing on the Rangers' chances this year, but the Zuccarello thing is good too.

 

[BarbaraAlphanse]

If my bashing of Zuccarello's defensive play before he had a very good season is your best ammo, Ill take it.

Anyway, this whole thing started because some posters seem to think Stralman is a better (and in some cases, MUCH better) player than Girardi. The only evidence being provided are possession stats. And, while important, I think if thats the only thing you're coming to the table with, its a ******** argument. I'd lean Girardi, too.

I'm confused as to what else is better that someone could reference to, to support their argument, than statistical evidence.

Litmus test?

 

[Zil]

The people criticizing advanced metrics because they don't match up with their personal eye tests are missing the point. If all advanced stats told you was what your eyes told you, then we wouldn't need them. As -31- has pointed out, there are two ways to make the SCF: You can either be one of the best possession teams in the league or you can have both Crosby and Malkin on your roster. Only one of those options is available to the Rangers.

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

I'm confused as to what else is better that someone could reference to, to support their argument, than statistical evidence.

Litmus test?

A broader array of statistical evidence.

And, on the more anecdotal side, why 2 very good NHL coaches trust Girardi more as a player.

 

[NYR Viper]

If Pouliot leaves, there are a few options I think they should look at, some have been thrown around:

Morin
Winnik
Jokinen (Jussi)
Fast

If Stralman leaves, there's a couple of options:
Boyle
Weaver
Niskanen
Gilbert
Fayne
Franson
Allen

For Richards replacement there are a few choices as well:
Grabovski
Stastny
ROR
Legwand
Miller
Lindberg

Boyle will most likely be leaving and they will need a replacement:
Winnik
Gibbons
Carcillo
Malhotra
Helm
Fast
Haggerty
Miller


Who am I missing?

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

The people criticizing advanced metrics because they don't match up with their personal eye tests are missing the point. If all advanced stats told you was what your eyes told you, then we wouldn't need them. As -31- has pointed out, there are two ways to make the SCF: You can either be one of the best possession teams in the league or you can have both Crosby and Malkin on your roster. Only one of those options is available to the Rangers.

I dont disagree with what you're saying here.

I do think the Girardi vs. Stralman debate is an incredibly stupid example for you to be using.

 

[BlueshirtBlitz]

The only "stathead" player I hate is John Mitchell.

Fact of the matter is, most players who have the puck are good players.

With Stralman, who plays good D AND possesses the puck, you have a great player.

 

[BarbaraAlphanse]

A broader array of statistical evidence.

And, on the more anecdotal side, why 2 very good NHL coaches trust Girardi more as a player.

Didn't you claim that the Stralman-Staal pairing was tasked with the hardest defensive responsibilities during the playoffs?

Can't have it both ways.

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

If Pouliot leaves, there are a few options I think they should look at, some have been thrown around:

Morin
Winnik
Jokinen (Jussi)
Fast

If Stralman leaves, there's a couple of options:
Boyle
Weaver
Niskanen
Gilbert
Fayne
Franson
Allen

For Richards replacement there are a few choices as well:
Grabovski
Stastny
ROR
Legwand
Miller
Lindberg

Boyle will most likely be leaving and they will need a replacement:
Winnik
Gibbons
Carcillo
Malhotra
Helm
Fast
Haggerty
Miller


Who am I missing?

Everyone else in the league besides goalies, technically.

 

[NYR Viper]

Everyone else in the league besides goalies, technically.

Oh you....

I meant anyone else you may wish to add to the list that you would like to see

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

Didn't you claim that the Stralman-Staal pairing was tasked with the hardest defensive responsibilities during the playoffs?

Can't have it both ways.

Nope, I didnt say that.

But if I did, and if that were true, you'd have a point.

 

[BarbaraAlphanse]

If Pouliot leaves, there are a few options I think they should look at, some have been thrown around:

Morin
Winnik
Jokinen (Jussi)
Fast

If Stralman leaves, there's a couple of options:
Boyle
Weaver
Niskanen
Gilbert
Fayne
Franson
Allen

For Richards replacement there are a few choices as well:
Grabovski
Stastny
ROR
Legwand
Miller
Lindberg

Boyle will most likely be leaving and they will need a replacement:
Winnik
Gibbons
Carcillo
Malhotra
Helm
Fast
Haggerty
Miller


Who am I missing?

Sobering post.

You're missing Kristo and Haggerty for Poo. Haggerty has a good frame. He could be used on the 4th line, too. Kristo has better offensive ability than Poo, somehow manages worse defensive capabilities.

Somewhere, Marek Hrvik is wondering what else he has to do to make this team.

 

[NYR Viper]

Here's an idea. Would anyone trade Dorsett for a 3rd and then move that pick for someone like Chris Neil?

 

[SA16]

No it wouldn't. How is that possible? If the best team possesses the puck 58% of the time - and you assemble all the best CORSI players - they will not possess the puck 75-80 percent of the time. It will be 55-58% just like it is now because that's not how hockey works. Hence - some of their CORSI ratings would go down.

What gives you the idea that the current best team would be better than an essential all star team that exceeds the salary cap if you did this? 58% is not a hard cap for the max team corsi.

 

[NYR Viper]

Sobering post.

You're missing Kristo and Haggerty for Poo. Haggerty has a good frame. He could be used on the 4th line, too. Kristo has better offensive ability than Poo, somehow manages worse defensive capabilities.

Somewhere, Marek Hrvik is wondering what else he has to do to make this team.

He has to score. I like his frame and overall game, but I'm wondering if he is just too bland as opposed to some others.

Any UFA's that I missed?

 

[NYR Viper]

I've seems a few sources linking the Islanders to Richards. It would make sense. He doesn't have to move, he likes the city.