2014 CBJ Offseason Thread

[Xoggz22]

So you don't think Stastny/Eberle instead of Anisimov/Tyutin makes us a better team? It might weaken the D a bit but it sure as heck upgrades the offense. I agree that we shouldn't trade the guys you mentioned but I don't see that much organic growth to be able to compete with the top teams. Look at all of the top teams. They weren't built solely from the draft. It's a three way path-draft, trades and UFA's.

I think the implication is that this team will be better just from a year of growth not that it wouldn't move forward faster with Stastny/Eberle. I'd like to get a top 6 wing for long term like Eberle but I, personally, I would worry about the length of term and money to bring Stastny in. How much better is Stastny then Dubi for this team? Signing Stastny may not keep Dubi in the fold after next year if our young centers develop (Wennberg, Jenner, Dano).

Wing is thin with little on the horizon (yes, Rychel and Bjorkstand are in the pipeline but Eberle is proven). I would prefer that be where the focus is.

 

[EspenK]

Concept:
Tyutin and Anisimov for Eberle
Umberger for a defenseman

I like this idea, except... There was some good discussion last week after I brought up trading Tyutin, regarding who would take his hard minutes. If you (the FO) don't know the answer, I'd prefer not. Also, you lose a middle-six center, meaning you're one less center available who might end up playing with your new goal-scoring winger. Do you have an option there besides Wennberg?

I wonder if the idea trading Tyutin and/or Anisimov is a year early. I might be tempted to suggest the idea floating around on the mains of Umberger for Stalberg would be the better plan.

I think you are right about being a year early on trading those two. Hopefully Wennberg will be ready to step into Arty's shoes and the young D will have developed to allow Tyutin to be dealt for the right return.

My original post in response to major's and Edm's thoughts that assumed that we would sign Stastny which as previously stated would cause a major log jam at C over the next many years. Which isn't necessarily a problem, especially if Dubi moves to wing.

And why would we want Stallberg? Looking at his stats he hasn't done much. Of course Nashville isn't an offense paradise. He had one "good" year with the Blackhawks. Other than that, not much. Paying him 9.5 mill over the next three years is less appealing to me than paying Umbie the same amount spread out over 6 years.

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

I think you are right about being a year early on trading those two. Hopefully Wennberg will be ready to step into Arty's shoes and the young D will have developed to allow Tyutin to be dealt for the right return.

My original post in response to major's and Edm's thoughts that assumed that we would sign Stastny which as previously stated would cause a major log jam at C over the next many years. Which isn't necessarily a problem, especially if Dubi moves to wing.

And why would we want Stallberg? Looking at his stats he hasn't done much. Of course Nashville isn't an offense paradise. He had one "good" year with the Blackhawks. Other than that, not much. Paying him 9.5 mill over the next three years is less appealing to me than paying Umbie the same amount spread out over 6 years.

Upon further reflection you might just as well re-sign Skille (not that they weren't going to, but) and save some dough vs. Stalberg. I honestly did not know how much he was making.

 

[FreeBoomer61]

Any interest in any of SJS's forwards? I'm sure they are looking to retool. Pavelski maybe?

 

[major major]

Any interest in any of SJS's forwards? I'm sure they are looking to retool. Pavelski maybe?

Of course, but I can't believe they'd be so stupid as to trade Pavelski, or any other top forward. There is little chance you could make the Sharks better through trade, and a big chance you could make them worse.

Maybe they'd move Brent Burns, but they'd want something like Murray, JJ, or Wennberg + Tyutin in return.

 

[thebus2288*]

Wiz+3rd for Burns

Keep Burns up as a forward. Throw him out on the point for the PP if you want.

CBJ would be better.

 

[TaketheCannoli]

I would love to see us get a replacement for Nikitin, someone meaner and nastier that clears the front of the net and hits and isn't afraid to drop the gloves. That was our biggest weakness against Pitt, most of their goals came from screens, deflections and rebounds. A solid vet that can be a 4-5 guy and maybe kill penalties would be ideal.

However, I'm afraid our return will be draft picks or long shot prospects.

Any interest in any of SJS's forwards? I'm sure they are looking to retool. Pavelski maybe?

They appear to have decided to forget a re-tool. Apparently they plan to try to trade maybe Dan Boyle and Marty Havlat. Rumor in Toronto has them considering trading Burns and Niemi as well.

It sounds like Pavelski, Couture, Marleau and Thornton aren't going to be available.

 

[Cyclones Rock]

I actually think we could use a passer/playmaker. And I actually think that David Desharnais would be a good fit, if he could play wing. His contract is probably a better deal than any we could get in free agency, and the Habs were recently looking to unload him.

Completely biased observer here DD is my favorite NHLer....he played in Cincinnati for the Cyclones in the ECHL in 07-08 and just dominated the league and I've been following him ever since.

DD would slot in the CBJ roster as a #3 center and get considerable PP time. He might be able to play wing, but has played his entire career as a center and had considerable success doing so.

http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php?pid=73254

He's had a poor playoff in terms of production, but he's shown a level of defensive play which broadens his usefulness. He's a pass first guy who is willing to go to the dirty areas and battle although he does get outmuscled a lot...no suprise given that he's 5'5" 165 lbs.

Desharnais is signed for $3.5m/year for 3 more years.

The way I'd see the decision framed for the CBJ brass would be who to choose between DD and Anisimov. DD would provide better offense while giving away a ton of size. Anisimov can also be used on the penalty kill while Desharnais has never been used on the PK in the NHL.

http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php?pid=95342

Anisimov is signed for $3.3 million for the next two years so it would be a wash financially.

DD is a year and a half older than AA, but has played 100 less NHL games. I don't see either player having a lot more upside than each has shown.

I would think that Desharnais as the 3rd line center (over Anisimov) improves the CBJ overall. I don't think that a straight up trade between the two is likely, so I have no idea how Desharnais as CBJ #3C could come about. I think he'd be available for a 2nd round pick and a medium prospect.

 

[TaketheCannoli]

Upon further reflection you might just as well re-sign Skille (not that they weren't going to, but) and save some dough vs. Stalberg. I honestly did not know how much he was making.

On the plus side:

Stalberg is blazing fast and pretty big. He has good skill and soft hands. When he played for the Hawks he was a Jackets killer.


On the minus side:

He is soft for a guy who is 6'2 and 210-215. He doesn't have great hockey IQ.

I think of him as a softer version of Jason Chimera.

 

[major major]

Completely biased observer here DD is my favorite NHLer....he played in Cincinnati for the Cyclones in the ECHL in 07-08 and just dominated the league and I've been following him ever since.

DD would slot in the CBJ roster as a #3 center and get considerable PP time. He might be able to play wing, but has played his entire career as a center and had considerable success doing so.

http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php?pid=73254

He's had a poor playoff in terms of production, but he's shown a level of defensive play which broadens his usefulness. He's a pass first guy who is willing to go to the dirty areas and battle although he does get outmuscled a lot...no suprise given that he's 5'5" 165 lbs.

Desharnais is signed for $3.5m/year for 3 more years.

The way I'd see the decision framed for the CBJ brass would be who to choose between DD and Anisimov. DD would provide better offense while giving away a ton of size. Anisimov can also be used on the penalty kill while Desharnais has never been used on the PK in the NHL.

http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php?pid=95342

Anisimov is signed for $3.3 million for the next two years so it would be a wash financially.

DD is a year and a half older than AA, but has played 100 less NHL games. I don't see either player having a lot more upside than each has shown.

I would think that Desharnais as the 3rd line center (over Anisimov) improves the CBJ overall. I don't think that a straight up trade between the two is likely, so I have no idea how Desharnais as CBJ #3C could come about. I think he'd be available for a 2nd round pick and a medium prospect.

I think in the #3C position I prefer a bigger stronger player, so I wouldn't see Desharnais as an upgrade over Anisimov. What Desharnais adds is a lot of creativity in playmaking and he would make scorers like Johansen all the more dangerous, but you can't do that from the #3C position. So if he can't play wing...

On the other hand, I think the asking price might be even lower than you suggested. On the boards at least, Habs fans are happy to trade him for Umberger, with only a tiny bit of salary retained on Umby. Really we're going to have to look for upgrades through trade - UFA's like Stastny and Callahan are all going to be ridiculously overpriced.

 

[Cyclones Rock]

I think in the #3C position I prefer a bigger stronger player, so I wouldn't see Desharnais as an upgrade over Anisimov. What Desharnais adds is a lot of creativity in playmaking and he would make scorers like Johansen all the more dangerous, but you can't do that from the #3C position. So if he can't play wing...

On the other hand, I think the asking price might be even lower than you suggested. On the boards at least, Habs fans are happy to trade him for Umberger, with only a tiny bit of salary retained on Umby. Really we're going to have to look for upgrades through trade - UFA's like Stastny and Callahan are all going to be ridiculously overpriced.

Desharnais finished 2nd on the team among forwards in points; third overall. There is a loud and vocal group which detests DD so they would trade him for anyone. ***might have something to do with DD being French but I'm just speculating** Umberger isn't even a remote possibility-even among DDs most vociferous critics-assuming that they're sober. A second round pick isn't much for a proven 60 point scorer. If the Habs decide that they want to unload DD for a 2nd rounder alone, there will be a line at the door, imo.

I understand your size misgivings. However, Johansen is a big kid and Dubi is a very physical guy. A small guy like DD could be slotted into the CBJ roster. Given his size, AA doesn't play very physically. I'd evaluate DD as an upgrade over AA as an overall package, but I can see the other side of the coin on this.

 

[EspenK]

I don't think we need another center or a different one. We need a RW. Anybody have any ideas on that? As previosuly stated. I like Iginla for that role for 2 years but I realize that's a million to one shot. Eberle would work but at what price? Vrbata as a FA could work for a couple of years. Other than that I'm kind of at a loss. Any ideas?

 

[Tony Quinn]

I don't see the need to really do anything. We should be better next year just from the young players getting better. I'd like to see us make a move or two, but I don't think we have too. I only want us to make a move if it is a clear upgrade for the team and we don't have to trade any of our top young players (Johansen, Murray, Jenner, Wennberg, etc....).

I could see the front office agreeing with your line of thinking. Didn't last year Jarmo say one of the good things about getting Horton via free agency was that he didn't have to part with any assets?

I could see them adding Callahan in Umby's place, planning a full healthy year out of Horton, and letting a younger guy, like Wenneberg earn his ice time, ala Jenner last year, being the plan.

I agree that the natural maturation of the young guys, especially with a tough playoff series under their belts, makes for a better team next year.

 

[TaketheCannoli]

I don't think we need another center or a different one. We need a RW. Anybody have any ideas on that? As previosuly stated. I like Iginla for that role for 2 years but I realize that's a million to one shot. Eberle would work but at what price? Vrbata as a FA could work for a couple of years. Other than that I'm kind of at a loss. Any ideas?

In general, I doubt the Jackets sign a scoring winger in free agency. There isn't much out there except old guys who want one last shot at a Cup.

If Jarmo wants to get one quickly, he will probably have to make a pretty expensive trade. Perhaps something like Tyutin + 1st + for Brent Burns.

Another scenario is taking a risk on a guy who needs a change. Look at how well Toronto's gamble on JVR and Ottawa's gamble on Turris and Chicago's trade for Sharp turned out. Conversely, look at how badly the Rundblad deals worked out for Phoenix and even Ottawa, who could have Tarasenko today if they hadn't made that trade. If Jarmo's expertise in scouting is as great as advertised, he may be able to pull off one of the former types.


Some potential targets: Brett Connelly, Joey Hishon, plus there are probably 10-20 other guys who they might believe is one of those guys. I think that's what Jarmo was trying to do when he signed Skille.

 

[Sore Loser]

Yep. He's going to take an almost $2 million pay cut after having a great season and playoffs and while being arguably the top UFA forward available.

I love when people take a valid argument - backed up by facts - and respond with a sarcastic comment that ignores everything that was said.

Ask the New York Rangers if they would go back and sign Scott Gomez to the same contract, given the opportunity to go back and do it again.

Gomez in his UFA year: 13 goals, 47 assists, 60 points
Stastny: 25/35/60

Gomez was one year older than Stastny, so I'll give you that.

If someone's dumb enough to pay Stastny some Anze Kopitar type money, then they're going to find themselves out of a job rather soon because they're crippling their ability to build a contender.

 

[EspenK]

In general, I doubt the Jackets sign a scoring winger in free agency. There isn't much out there except old guys who want one last shot at a Cup.

If Jarmo wants to get one quickly, he will probably have to make a pretty expensive trade. Perhaps something like Tyutin + 1st + for Brent Burns.

Another scenario is taking a risk on a guy who needs a change. Look at how well Toronto's gamble on JVR and Ottawa's gamble on Turris and Chicago's trade for Sharp turned out. Conversely, look at how badly the Rundblad deals worked out for Phoenix and even Ottawa, who could have Tarasenko today if they hadn't made that trade. If Jarmo's expertise in scouting is as great as advertised, he may be able to pull off one of the former types.


Some potential targets: Brett Connelly, Joey Hishon, plus there are probably 10-20 other guys who they might believe is one of those guys. I think that's what Jarmo was trying to do when he signed Skille.

We only need a guy for a couple of years. to me Vrbata would fit and be somewhat affordable. The trouble with trading is unless we can give a young D like Erixon.Golobuef,Prout or Savard plus a pick we would have to weaken the team. I agree with DSL that the logic of trading Tyutin is probably a year away once the young guys have matured a bit and we have a better idea if one of them can handle Tyutin's minutes.

And in my mind there is significant difference between JVR and Kyle Turris as opposed to the guys you named. JVR cost Schenn (which at the time seemed like a reasonable trade). I don't remember what Turris cost but obviously it was worth it. If we could get a comparable level guy that doesn't fit where he is now for young D, secondary prospects and/or picks that could be a good solution.

 

[major major]

I love when people take a valid argument - backed up by facts - and respond with a sarcastic comment that ignores everything that was said.

Ask the New York Rangers if they would go back and sign Scott Gomez to the same contract, given the opportunity to go back and do it again.

Gomez in his UFA year: 13 goals, 47 assists, 60 points
Stastny: 25/35/60

Gomez was one year older than Stastny, so I'll give you that.

If someone's dumb enough to pay Stastny some Anze Kopitar type money, then they're going to find themselves out of a job rather soon because they're crippling their ability to build a contender.

I think everyone's aware of the absurdity of throwing $6m+ at guys like Stastny, but the question is, with the cap ever rising, should you spend it on UFA's or just leave the money lying around? We'll have a situation in a few years here where we'll have enough home grown talent to pay that we won't have space to think about UFA's, but there are some teams where there just isn't enough coming out of the pipeline. Then you either fill out your roster with overpriced UFA's or you don't spend the money.

 

[major major]

We only need a guy for a couple of years. to me Vrbata would fit and be somewhat affordable. The trouble with trading is unless we can give a young D like Erixon.Golobuef,Prout or Savard plus a pick we would have to weaken the team. I agree with DSL that the logic of trading Tyutin is probably a year away once the young guys have matured a bit and we have a better idea if one of them can handle Tyutin's minutes.

I say go now. Tyutin might not even be able to handle "Tyutin minutes" anymore. And Savard averaged 23:19 in the playoffs and was stellar.

 

[Nanabijou]

I say go now. Tyutin might not even be able to handle "Tyutin minutes" anymore. And Savard averaged 23:19 in the playoffs and was stellar.

He still has a full NTC this year and not sure why he'd waive it as he seems pretty settled and happy here at least for now. It's not like he was getting scratched down the stretch.

Anyone know what the modifications on his NTC that go into place starting next year?

 

[Jackets16]

I think everyone's aware of the absurdity of throwing $6m+ at guys like Stastny, but the question is, with the cap ever rising, should you spend it on UFA's or just leave the money lying around? We'll have a situation in a few years here where we'll have enough home grown talent to pay that we won't have space to think about UFA's, but there are some teams where there just isn't enough coming out of the pipeline. Then you either fill out your roster with overpriced UFA's or you don't spend the money.

You can't just look at the amount you have to spend now though. You have to plan for what you will have in the next 6+ years and how you would like to spend it.

 

[CBJWerenski8]

People are throwing Tyutin over the bridge too early. Who cares if he doesn't play 'Tyutin minutes' anymore. He's still a stable defenseman, who had a pretty bad injury during the Olympics. He's getting older, but he's still not old. He can slide down the lineup a bit and replaced by Savard or someone else, thats fine, but I would keep Tyutin just for his value in the locker room. Alot of players look to him.

 

[blahblah]

Not everyone is aware, I find nothing absurd about 6 million for Stastny. He had a great regular season and a very productive post season. He earned his current 6.6 million contract.

 

[cslebn]

it does seem like the structure for UFA is now trending towards:

10 pts = 1M
20 pts = 2M
30 pts = 3M
40 pts = 4M
50 pts = 5M
60 pts = 6M

and so on

 

[IHeartZherdev*]

I love when people take a valid argument - backed up by facts - and respond with a sarcastic comment that ignores everything that was said.

Ask the New York Rangers if they would go back and sign Scott Gomez to the same contract, given the opportunity to go back and do it again.

Gomez in his UFA year: 13 goals, 47 assists, 60 points
Stastny: 25/35/60

Gomez was one year older than Stastny, so I'll give you that.

If someone's dumb enough to pay Stastny some Anze Kopitar type money, then they're going to find themselves out of a job rather soon because they're crippling their ability to build a contender.

Your argument isn't valid at all. Hence the sarcasm.

When someone hits the open market and goes to unrestricted free agency, and have multiple teams bidding against each other for their services, they get huge deals, in terms of dollars and term.

You don't have any facts that show highly sought after UFA players accept below market deals in terms of dollars and term. Because that doesn't happen very often, and will not happen in the case of Statsny.

 

[Xoggz22]

A few names I'll throw out with varying success thus far...

Boedker (PHO) - don't know that he could be had but fits the mold and is a clear top 6 upgrade. Also doesn't have the stats Eberle does and may not cost as much?

Korpikoski (PHO) - Hasn't shown the hands but has the speed and smarts (especially defensively) to fit in. Could just be another middle 6 guy although more size and speed than 1/2 our roster.

Jaskin (STL) - Lacks experience (just made partial NHL jump last year) but has the size and skill set to be a top 6 wing quickly. Comes from a system that is likely similar to CBJ. Smart, skilled and size. Can play the game fast but not a burner.

Paajarvi (STL) - great skater and shooter but has struggled to find the back of the net (easy to see with his lack of points). Could a bigger role in Columbus push him to his top 6 potential.

Palmeiri (ANA) - High offensive upside but may be stuck behind several in Anaheim. excellent skater and hockey IQ. Needs experience but getting it on a good team in Anaheim.

Silfverberg (ANA) - most know I really like this kid. Decent size, excellent offensive instincts, already plays sound 2-way game and gaining experience.

These are all players from the Western Conference. If time permits I throw out some ideas from the East later on. Only Boedker and Silfverberg may be high level acquisitions but I'm keeping players like Anisimov, Atkinson, Tyutin, Rychel, Dano and even Bjorkstrand in mind. none of the players above are older than 24 so sacrificing some younger players may not impact too greatly.

Just some thoughts and ideas... anyone have feedback? Yay? Nay?