2014 CBJ Offseason Thread III (All proposals, "blog" rumors, speculation in here)

[Double-Shift Lasse]

And in rode Fatima...

"with rings on her fingers
and bells on her toes
and a bone in her nose
ho,ho!"

All of a sudden I have a craving for a raisin...

and a grape...

and an apricot, and a pomegranate, a bowl of chitlins, two bananas, three Hershey bars and an RC cola

 

[EspenK]

All of a sudden I have a craving for a raisin...

and a grape...

and an apricot, and a pomegranate, a bowl of chitlins, two bananas, three Hershey bars and an RC cola

no ho-ho's? or even one?

 

[major major]

Any projection of a roster 2 or 3 years down the road is folly. All I'm saying is I'd prefer to see it play out rather than work on presumptions - aka Rychel also has plenty of time to demonstrate his game won't translate to the NHL. You see, I'm not saying it will happen, but I'm saying that if you're going to allow that in 2-3 years a player might follow a particular developmental path, you have to allow the possibility he will follow another.

In two years, we might have seen that Johansen's 13-14 season was a fluke, and he regresses/plateaus at high-end #2 center. In two years, Scott Hartnell could decide he's retiring from hockey after suffering multiple concussions. In 2-3 years, Cavert may be coming off two consecutive 20-goal seasons. Sure, some of those are more projectable than others, but...

I agree we can't count on projections. But I also argue that Rychel stands a pretty good chance of being a hard nosed winger kind of like Hartnell. Not a particularly good all around game, but very good at shoveling the puck in the net. That's not someone you move Foligno out to make room for. I think Hartnell is the guy you want to move out for the younger version of himself. That's part of why I'm nervous about Hartnell's jumbo contract in the two extra years when Umberger's will be done. We don't have a cap problem now, but we will probably be nice and snug then, and have to let some good players go. My hope is that if Rychel is pushing we can keep Foligno and move Hartnell's contract in a couple years.

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

I agree we can't count on projections. But I also argue that Rychel stands a pretty good chance of being a hard nosed winger kind of like Hartnell. Not a particularly good all around game, but very good at shoveling the puck in the net. That's not someone you move Foligno out to make room for. I think Hartnell is the guy you want to move out for the younger version of himself. That's part of why I'm nervous about Hartnell's jumbo contract in the two extra years when Umberger's will be done. We don't have a cap problem now, but we will probably be nice and snug then, and have to let some good players go. My hope is that if Rychel is pushing we can keep Foligno and move Hartnell's contract in a couple years.

Jeesh, man. The two players that were being discussed were Rychel and Foligno, so I switched the narrative around using those two. Seriously, if I'm going to say that pretty much anything is possible and not to count on anything, are you going to make me use every potentiality in a post about it? People won't read that.

 

[major major]

Jeesh, man. The two players that were being discussed were Rychel and Foligno, so I switched the narrative around using those two. Seriously, if I'm going to say that pretty much anything is possible and not to count on anything, are you going to make me use every potentiality in a post about it? People won't read that.

I was agreeing with you, and then just giving my view on one of the more likely scenarios.

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

I was agreeing with you, and then just giving my view on one of the more likely scenarios.

I'm just messing.

 

[Sore Loser]

Why don't we trade away our entire top 9 to make room for Zaar, Bjorkstad, Wennberg, Rychel, Milano, and S-Hjal? Why bother rostering solid, in their prime NHL players when you have teenage prospects in the system?

Since you responded to my post with little attention paid to what I actually said, I will respond to your post in kind. I mentioned not posting on here because of the back and forth ... looking back, it's obvious that most of the unnecessary arguing is coming from you blowing things out of proportion. Congrats, you are alienating people for making speculation.

 

[CBJWerenski8]

You can really really tell this is the offseason now.

 

[DJA]

You can really really tell this is the offseason now.

And we aren't even to August yet.

 

[Socks]

You can really really tell this is the offseason now.

We could always break out some classics. Rick vs. Nik. Who does GMDM think he is? How will the Goat line perform this year? Did we Brule Brule? Nik-Fil-A: Head case or misunderstood Ruskie? How dare Clode think we only need 2 goals! Have we ever found the noose? Don't pile on? **** you Arny we'll pile on as much as we damn well please! Etcetera etcetera etcetera. (That was my Yul Brynner impression)

 

[IHeartZherdev*]

Since you responded to my post with little attention paid to what I actually said, I will respond to your post in kind. I mentioned not posting on here because of the back and forth ... looking back, it's obvious that most of the unnecessary arguing is coming from you blowing things out of proportion. Congrats, you are alienating people for making speculation.

Go ahead and speculate all you want, cochese.

I'd just rather you and the other Trade Anisimov Truthers not play the "we have to move key guys to make room for guys drafted a year or two ago" card.

Because we don't have to move Anisimov. Or Foligno.

We could easily extend both without hampering or blocking prospect development or going over the salary cap. Those players, the positions they play, aren't "blocking" anyone and if/when they become proven NHL ready contributors there are a ton of different ways the team can fit them in

 

[WannabeFinn]

Now that I think about it, could we see Hjal/Gibbons and Tropp/Boll roll as units/packages? As in, when we need speed we roll the Hjal/Gibbons package and when we need physicality/grit we use the Tropp/Boll package? Could be a good way to distribute the playing time amongst them. Or do you think Richards finds the 2 wingers he likes and plays them 60+ games and rarely plays the other 2 guys?

 

[EspenK]

I like Foligno just as much as the next guy but 2 or 3 years down the road..? Foligno is 7 years older than Rychel. Rychel would be playing on a low cap hit ELC, Foligno would be closer to ~4m cap hit, assuming he's still around. Do we really think Foligno makes Rychel expendable?

It's easy to say we like Foligno more due to his all around game, but give Rychel a break. He was only drafted last year. He's got plenty of time to develop his game and prove to be a better player than Foligno.

Perhaps we still see Foligno as the superior player for the next 3 years. I think when considering the long term you don't think of Foligno as the better choice, though.

I agree with this.

I could see Foligno being extended for 3 years at around 4mm. Problem is if I'm Foligno I want more dollars and probably more term. I don't think the Jackets can or should (majors man crush notwithstanding ) tie up a roster spot for him for any longer than three years.

My guesses as to who is missing in 3 years: Letestu, Boll, Tropp and Anisimov.(and a personal wish is that Hartnell is gone, too) Foligno is 50/50 at best imo. He is probably gone after the upcoming season for reasons stated above. Tyutin from the D is almost certainly gone and Wiz will need to either be extended at age 33 or he will be gone too.

This assumes that some combination of Wennberg, Rychel, Milano, Dano, Bjorkstrand and other prospects, future draftees and free agent signings make the team. Can't see how at least some of them don't make it and we're not going to be paying 4th liners big bucks.

 

[major major]

I agree with this.

I could see Foligno being extended for 3 years at around 4mm. Problem is if I'm Foligno I want more dollars and probably more term. I don't think the Jackets can or should (majors man crush notwithstanding ) tie up a roster spot for him for any longer than three years.

I question whether its worth it to pay him $5m long term if we're stuck with Hartnell and Horton's contracts filling out that space. But I don't think it should be a question whether we want Foligno "tieing up a roster spot" for the long term. We absolutely do. I'd be very happy if we got a 5 year $4m deal done with him.

 

[Fro]

i wouldn't be angry with a deal to tie up Foligno here for a while. I feel we have enough roster flexibility should we need to move someone. with the cap slated to keep rising, we should be fine with not worrying about being in a bind for a few years.

 

[EspenK]

I question whether its worth it to pay him $5m long term if we're stuck with Hartnell and Horton's contracts filling out that space. But I don't think it should be a question whether we want Foligno "tieing up a roster spot" for the long term. We absolutely do. I'd be very happy if we got a 5 year $4m deal done with him.

I don't think it works unless the cap rises dramatically. Plus we will have too many guys tied up for too long. Joey,Horton, Hartnell,Bob,Dubi for sure. Jenner and Murray are almost definites. Cam, Calvert are likely. Plus everyone can't keep denying Wennberg, Rychel, et al are going to make the team at some point and aren't (hopefully) going to be 4th liners when they do.

I'd like to keep him for three years but as I said above, to me its a 50/50 proposition.

To me I still don't completely understand the Hartnell deal. Maybe he helps for a couple of years but those last two or three are very likely to be an albatross. Hopefully we can ditch him in a deadline deal down the road somewhere.

 

[NotWendell]

We have a very interesting roster. In 2-3 years, we might be loaded - or just mediocre.

 

[Crede777]

The toughest decision may be whether or not we even have room for Nick Foligno in 2015, to be honest. Will he be willing to re-sign to play third line minutes? Will he be made absolutely expendable by a guy like Kerby Rychel? Same thing for Artem Anisimov ... will we even need him after this year?

What great problems to have!

The way this team has gone the last 2 seasons, I don't know if we even have defined lines. Sure I guess you have the top line which is whatever line Johansen is on and you have a 4th line of energy guys but the idea of there being a 1st > 2nd > 3rd > 4th seems a bit off with regards to minutes. Instead of a "top-6" I think we have a "top-9."

 

[db2011]

I agree with this.

I could see Foligno being extended for 3 years at around 4mm. Problem is if I'm Foligno I want more dollars and probably more term. I don't think the Jackets can or should (majors man crush notwithstanding ) tie up a roster spot for him for any longer than three years.

My guesses as to who is missing in 3 years: Letestu, Boll, Tropp and Anisimov.(and a personal wish is that Hartnell is gone, too) Foligno is 50/50 at best imo. He is probably gone after the upcoming season for reasons stated above. Tyutin from the D is almost certainly gone and Wiz will need to either be extended at age 33 or he will be gone too.

This assumes that some combination of Wennberg, Rychel, Milano, Dano, Bjorkstrand and other prospects, future draftees and free agent signings make the team. Can't see how at least some of them don't make it and we're not going to be paying 4th liners big bucks.

The point is a fair one that says this roster as you project it won't be demonstrably better than it would be if AA and Foligno were the guys playing in place of a couple of the young guys coming up through the system. I won't venture to guess what the roster looks like in 3 years, and the future of role players is always tenuous. I understand the cyclical process in which draftees develop and push out vets. I also understand high hopes for Wennberg and Milano, as well as the rest. But guys like Dano, Rychel and Bjorkstrand will need to outplay Anisimov and Foligno, in my mind, to push them out; or else in 3 years we will be going with unproven youngsters to try to be competitive, make the playoffs, and become world champions. Meanwhile, Anisimov and Foligno will both be in their prime vets (29 years old each).

It's almost like your using the model of a small market team. Columbus may be a "small market", but they have not spent like one in a few years (though Jarmo seems to be changing that). I appreciate your belief that all those prospects will develop into top 6 NHL players and play their way onto this roster, and I hope they do. But they have to do that first, and in the meantime we have some pretty decent late year models in the garage right now.

The way this team has gone the last 2 seasons, I don't know if we even have defined lines. Sure I guess you have the top line which is whatever line Johansen is on and you have a 4th line of energy guys but the idea of there being a 1st > 2nd > 3rd > 4th seems a bit off with regards to minutes. Instead of a "top-6" I think we have a "top-9."

I remember when Arniel was all about rolling 4 lines. The Dubinsky and Anisimov lines do seem interchangeable, with roughly equivalent levels of effectiveness but different styles. Still, I hesitate to deviate from a tried-and-true conception of lines. Which is why I still prefer a bruiser like Boll on the 4th line rather than expecting offense to be generated there.

 

[EspenK]

Okay here's my take at the lets keep everybody for the next umpteen years (2018-19) because our prospects will never be better than what we have now:

Horton 5.3
Joey 8.0
Dubi 5.85
Hartnell 4.75
Jenner 5.0
Calvert 2.0
Atkinson 4.0
Foligno 4.5
Anisimov 4.5
Wennberg 3.0
Rychel 2.5
Dano 2.5
Bjorkstrand 2.5
Milano 1.0 Forwards 54.9mm

Murray 6.0
Prout 2.0
Erixon 2.5
Johnson 6.0
Wiz 6.0
Savard 3.0
Reilly 1.0 Defense subtotal 28.5mm

Bob 7.0
Backup 1.0 Goalies 8mm

Total 91.9 mm -cap needs to increase at a compounded 7.5%
to make this fit. Cap would be 92.1mm leaving
a whopping 200k to work with.

Now you can argue about the salaries I used but in general I think they are about right and what it will take to keep guys here-some too high, some too low. The point still stands - current guys are not going to be here down the road mainly for cap reasons and imo because some of the prospects will push guys out.


Or I guess you could substitute 4 more $1 million guys for Wennberg, Rychel, Dano & Bjorkstrand and have a great AHL team.

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

Okay here's my take at the lets keep everybody for the next umpteen years (2018-19) because our prospects will never be better than what we have now:

Correct me if I'm wrong, but if our prospects are never going to be better than what we have now, why are we paying Bjorkstrand, who under the conditions you've created will likely be playing in Europe, $2.5 mil?

Or I guess you could substitute 4 more $1 million guys for Wennberg, Rychel, Dano & Bjorkstrand and have a great AHL team.

That's our team this year. A great AHL team?

I get the point you're making but there are so many straw men in your post it's difficult to decide if they're worth refuting.

 

[Fro]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but if our prospects are never going to be better than what we have now, why are we paying Bjorkstrand, who under the conditions you've created will likely be playing in Europe, $2.5 mil?



That's our team this year. A great AHL team?

I get the point you're making but there are so many straw men in your post it's difficult to decide if they're worth refuting.

i'll just take it for what its worth and chuckle at what he was doing quietly to myself

 

[EspenK]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but if our prospects are never going to be better than what we have now, why are we paying Bjorkstrand, who under the conditions you've created will likely be playing in Europe, $2.5 mil?



That's our team this year. A great AHL team?

I get the point you're making but there are so many straw men in your post it's difficult to decide if they're worth refuting.

Let me help you eliminate at least one straw man. My point is that several of our prospects will make the team and make about what I have listed even if we keep all the sacred cows. Obviously it isn't going to happen this way but I was just trying to show the absurdity of thinking/hoping that we keep everyone. It isn't going to happen

And as for the AHL comment, I was facetiously suggesting we add the million dollar guys in Columbus and keep the prospects in Springfield to build a great AHL team there while we wait for the beloved to move on.

Have some coffee, your usually sharp mind will kick back in.

 

[EspenK]

i'll just take it for what its worth and chuckle at what he was doing quietly to myself

Just for the record I wasn't doing anything to Fro quietly or otherwise.

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

Let me help you eliminate at least one straw man. My point is that several of our prospects will make the team and make about what I have listed even if we keep all the sacred cows. Obviously it isn't going to happen this way but I was just trying to show the absurdity of thinking/hoping that we keep everyone. It isn't going to happen

And as for the AHL comment, I was facetiously suggesting we add the million dollar guys in Columbus and keep the prospects in Springfield to build a great AHL team there while we wait for the beloved to move on.

Have some coffee, your usually sharp mind will kick back in.

You basically just admitted your entire post was straw men. I'm not sure it's my mind we should be concerned about.

Sacred cows? Beloved? Really? Condescension doesn't become you.