2014 CBJ Offseason Thread III (All proposals, "blog" rumors, speculation in here)

[stevo61]

Agreed that Horton's last year is probably an outlier due to injuries (mainly the groin injury).

But i think the Foligno-Johansen partnership was beneficial for both parties, by the eye test and the stats. I also don't think there'll be much of a gap going forward between Foligno's point production and Horton and Hartnell's. From last year's 5-on-5 per 60 minutes scoring:

Foligno 2.05 pts
Hartnell 1.84 pts
Horton 1.81 pts
Jenner 1.34 pts

Thats the thing, we have so many options so theres a lot we could try. We could have what I said in the other post or we could go off of something like this and try Hartnell-Johansen-Foligno and Jenner-Anisimov-Horton. I was also thinking of a more playmaker type with Anisimov because he's so much more of a scorer and although he has the vision to be a better playmaker he doesn't always use it. Hartnell and Jenner on the same team is a nice thing to have since Hartnell is basically what Jenner will hopefully be minus the million unneeded penalties so they can be switched around based on who they look better with.
It's nice to have lineup debates about legitimate top 9 guys vs years ago debating which 3rd liner should be playing on the 1st and 2nd Johansen is probably our only chance at a star but we are deep and there is no reason to believe we cant be the same offensively as last year or better. I haven't always been a big Richards fan but he does seem to know how to find chemistry and role with it

 

[Sore Loser]

Really, I think this would be the year to try a two-for-one type of deal with our forwards. If someone is shopping a top-6 piece, I think Jarmo will have a hard time not at least considering them. I don't know which two guys you trade - maybe it's Atkinson, Letestu, or even Calvert - but, if we could package two of those guys we might be killing two birds with one stone. Acquiring a more skilled/experienced player, while freeing up future roster space for one of the younger guys.

The toughest decision may be whether or not we even have room for Nick Foligno in 2015, to be honest. Will he be willing to re-sign to play third line minutes? Will he be made absolutely expendable by a guy like Kerby Rychel? Same thing for Artem Anisimov ... will we even need him after this year?

What great problems to have!

 

[cbjfaninmo]

Really, I think this would be the year to try a two-for-one type of deal with our forwards. If someone is shopping a top-6 piece, I think Jarmo will have a hard time not at least considering them. I don't know which two guys you trade - maybe it's Atkinson, Letestu, or even Calvert - but, if we could package two of those guys we might be killing two birds with one stone. Acquiring a more skilled/experienced player, while freeing up future roster space for one of the younger guys.

The toughest decision may be whether or not we even have room for Nick Foligno in 2015, to be honest. Will he be willing to re-sign to play third line minutes? Will he be made absolutely expendable by a guy like Kerby Rychel? Same thing for Artem Anisimov ... will we even need him after this year?

What great problems to have!

I think Jarmo sits tight until he sees how things shake out coming out of camp. Will anyone of the young guys push for a spot? As you mention in an earlier post, going into the season with McBackup is a head-scratcher. If Bob goes down, it could be a huge issue for this team. I not a fan of McBackup as our backup.

 

[Xoggz22]

I think, for once, the CBJ is in a position where they can wait. While the team appears to be good enough to make the playoffs I think another offensive threat would make them more dangerous and push them closer to a cup contender. Hell, if the Rangers can get there I think the CBJ can too without any moves.

If you can afford to wait then a deal can come to you. It's typically the best possible scenario to get the highest value for assets. I realize not everyone agrees, but having players like Anisimov could be tremendous value for future team growth. Great to have them on the team but also possible chips to move if someone comes with an upgrade option. As SL said, a 2 for 1 type deal could net a major asset and strengthen the team even if on the surface it looks like the CBJ may be sacrificing something giving up 2 assets.

Not to open an old wound but a deal like the original Gaborik deal could be an option (not Gabby but the structure of that type of deal). That had the makings of adding a major player at the expense of very little (in terms of hurting the team). I like where we are sitting and look forward to camp to see what the pieces ultimately look like.

 

[WannabeFinn]

Who out there would be willing to give up a top line winger for a package consisting of (what seems to be suggested on here) middle 6 forwards and/or picks, though? Teams like Edmonton need better defenseman, not guys like Atkinson or something.

Sharp could be available, but his age concerns me a bit. I honestly can't think of any legitimate top line wingers aside from Eberle/Sharp (maybe Bobby Ryan?) that could realistically be available without costing us an arm and a leg. The questions still surrounds what exactly it would take from us to get either of those guys, though. We could throw out proposals of Anisimov+ for days on end but in all honesty he isn't such a significant upgrade at center for them that it'd be worth trading away a position of strength. You could argue that Sharp would need to be moved due to the cap but if Chicago really wants to keep him then they'll find a way to make room.

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

Who out there would be willing to give up a top line winger for a package consisting of (what seems to be suggested on here) middle 6 forwards and/or picks, though? Teams like Edmonton need better defenseman, not guys like Atkinson or something.

Sharp could be available, but his age concerns me a bit. I honestly can't think of any legitimate top line wingers aside from Eberle/Sharp (maybe Bobby Ryan?) that could realistically be available without costing us an arm and a leg. The questions still surrounds what exactly it would take from us to get either of those guys, though. We could throw out proposals of Anisimov+ for days on end but in all honesty he isn't such a significant upgrade at center for them that it'd be worth trading away a position of strength. You could argue that Sharp would need to be moved due to the cap but if Chicago really wants to keep him then they'll find a way to make room.

Yep.

A proven scoring wing would be a nice add, but I'm not sure I'd want to trade away what it would take to acquire one I'd like to acquire.

Which is not the same as saying Jarmo should stand pat - nor do I believe he's not at least investigating possibilities with any number of GMs. Or listening if someone should call him. But I'd expect Jarmo is comfortable with the idea of starting camp and the season with the current roster.

 

[IHeartZherdev*]

The toughest decision may be whether or not we even have room for Nick Foligno in 2015, to be honest. Will he be willing to re-sign to play third line minutes? Will he be made absolutely expendable by a guy like Kerby Rychel? Same thing for Artem Anisimov ... will we even need him after this year?

What great problems to have!

Why don't we trade away our entire top 9 to make room for Zaar, Bjorkstad, Wennberg, Rychel, Milano, and S-Hjal? Why bother rostering solid, in their prime NHL players when you have teenage prospects in the system?

 

[EspenK]

Why don't we trade away our entire top 9 to make room for Zaar, Bjorkstad, Wennberg, Rychel, Milano, and S-Hjal? Why bother rostering solid, in their prime NHL players when you have teenage prospects in the system?

Why can't you get the concept of staying within the salary cap and a 23 man roster as being the real reasons Foligno and Anisismov are very likely trade candidates sometime during the next one to two years?

 

[major major]

Why don't we trade away our entire top 9 to make room for Zaar, Bjorkstad, Wennberg, Rychel, Milano, and S-Hjal? Why bother rostering solid, in their prime NHL players when you have teenage prospects in the system?

Argumentum ad absurdum. SL obviously never suggested going that far. But I do wonder... when its suggested we move someone as important as Foligno to make space for someone like Rychel, do we have our priorities in order? I don't think Rychel will be as good an overall player, so I'd rather move him. But in the general case we shouldn't presume just because a prospect is coming up that we have to trade a veteran to make space for them.

 

[CBJSlash]

I'd like to know the organizations currence on Foligno is. Without Umberger long term, I think it is more feasible. He fits the mantra of the team, is a good guy in the room and can play anywhere in the middle 6.

I have no issue with wanting to see where he is until the middle of the year before going for an extension.

He's probably eyeing north of 4.5 and we are eyeing south of 3.5 so let his play dictate the negotiation.

My ideal for someone like him would be 3.8 for 5 years. Although someone like Rychel MAY end up pushing someone like Foligno, that's far from a sure bet in the next 3 years. I'd rather push Atkinson out than a guy like Foligno, but maybe that's just me.

Jenner - Johansen - Horton
Hartnell - Anisimov - Wennberg
Foligno - Dubinsky - Rychel

In 2/3 years that group would be the biggest, strongest Top 9 in the league. Quite a load.

 

[major major]

Why can't you get the concept of staying within the salary cap and a 23 man roster as being the real reasons Foligno and Anisismov are very likely trade candidates sometime during the next one to two years?
:

I think this is the more important concern, especially since we just added Hartnell's 5 year deal.

 

[IHeartZherdev*]

I think this is the more important concern, especially since we just added Hartnell's 5 year deal.

...and subtracted RJ Umberger's deal

 

[WannabeFinn]

Anyways, I think it's best we wait until at least this year's trade deadline before making a move for a top line winger. By then we'll see what our roster actually looks like (Wennberg in Columbus or Springy), we'll see what kind of progression our younger wingers have made (Jenner, Atkinson, Calvert), and we'll also have a much better idea of who is available and what it might cost us to acquire them.

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

But I do wonder... when its suggested we move someone as important as Foligno to make space for someone like Rychel, do we have our priorities in order? I don't think Rychel will be as good an overall player, so I'd rather move him. But in the general case we shouldn't presume just because a prospect is coming up that we have to trade a veteran to make space for them.

I agree. To oversimplify, perhaps Foligno makes Rychel expendable, and not the other way 'round - cap considerations and value in trade being taken into account.

 

[WannabeFinn]

I agree. To oversimplify, perhaps Foligno makes Rychel expendable, and not the other way 'round - cap considerations and value in trade being taken into account.

I like Foligno just as much as the next guy but 2 or 3 years down the road..? Foligno is 7 years older than Rychel. Rychel would be playing on a low cap hit ELC, Foligno would be closer to ~4m cap hit, assuming he's still around. Do we really think Foligno makes Rychel expendable?

It's easy to say we like Foligno more due to his all around game, but give Rychel a break. He was only drafted last year. He's got plenty of time to develop his game and prove to be a better player than Foligno.

Perhaps we still see Foligno as the superior player for the next 3 years. I think when considering the long term you don't think of Foligno as the better choice, though.

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

I like Foligno just as much as the next guy but 2 or 3 years down the road..? Foligno is 7 years older than Rychel. Rychel would be playing on a low cap hit ELC, Foligno would be closer to ~4m cap hit, assuming he's still around. Do we really think Foligno makes Rychel expendable?

It's easy to say we like Foligno more due to his all around game, but give Rychel a break. He was only drafted last year. He's got plenty of time to develop his game and prove to be a better player than Foligno.

Any projection of a roster 2 or 3 years down the road is folly. All I'm saying is I'd prefer to see it play out rather than work on presumptions - aka Rychel also has plenty of time to demonstrate his game won't translate to the NHL. You see, I'm not saying it will happen, but I'm saying that if you're going to allow that in 2-3 years a player might follow a particular developmental path, you have to allow the possibility he will follow another.

In two years, we might have seen that Johansen's 13-14 season was a fluke, and he regresses/plateaus at high-end #2 center. In two years, Scott Hartnell could decide he's retiring from hockey after suffering multiple concussions. In 2-3 years, Cavert may be coming off two consecutive 20-goal seasons. Sure, some of those are more projectable than others, but...

 

[WannabeFinn]

Any projection of a roster 2 or 3 years down the road is folly. All I'm saying is I'd prefer to see it play out rather than work on presumptions - aka Rychel also has plenty of time to demonstrate his game won't translate to the NHL. You see, I'm not saying it will happen, but I'm saying that if you're going to allow that in 2-3 years a player might follow a particular developmental path, you have to allow the possibility he will follow another.

In two years, we might have seen that Johansen's 13-14 season was a fluke, and he regresses/plateaus at high-end #2 center. In two years, Scott Hartnell could decide he's retiring from hockey after suffering multiple concussions. In 2-3 years, Cavert may be coming off two consecutive 20-goal seasons. Sure, some of those are more projectable than others, but...

Oh I'm not saying at all that he's guaranteed to be better/guaranteed NHL success. Of course the possibility of busting is always there for a prospect.

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

Oh I'm not saying at all that he's guaranteed to be better/guaranteed NHL success. Of course the possibility of busting is always there for a prospect.

To better address the "who makes whom expendable"...

Let's say Rychel does develop into an NHL scorer as projected, but finds himself on a team with a bunch of scorers and not enough playmakers - Johansen, Anisimov, Horton, etc. The fact that you've got a player like Foligno on your roster may make trading away Rychel for a playmaker, should the opportunity present itself, more palatable. Oh sure, you could trade Foligno, but as you say, he'll be older and earning more money, so Rychel might be more attractive to trading partners.

To paraphrase Ray Stevens (and yes, I'm aware like 2 people will know who that is without looking it up), "everything is fungible."

 

[pete goegan]

To better address the "who makes whom expendable"...

Let's say Rychel does develop into an NHL scorer as projected, but finds himself on a team with a bunch of scorers and not enough playmakers - Johansen, Anisimov, Horton, etc. The fact that you've got a player like Foligno on your roster may make trading away Rychel for a playmaker, should the opportunity present itself, more palatable. Oh sure, you could trade Foligno, but as you say, he'll be older and earning more money, so Rychel might be more attractive to trading partners.

To paraphrase Ray Stevens (and yes, I'm aware like 2 people will know who that is without looking it up), "everything is fungible."

I'm one, who's the other?

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

I'm one, who's the other?

I knew you'd be one - just guessing that there would be one more. Maybe Moe?

 

[Fro]

Is it the comedic singer Ray Stevens? lol

 

[WannabeFinn]

looks like the CBJ have scheduled a live stream on their youtube channel for 10:40 am tomorrow (Tuesday), looks to be Hartnell media availability

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

Is it the comedic singer Ray Stevens? lol

"Without looking it up"...

 

[EspenK]

I'm one, who's the other?

my camel named Clyde

 

[pete goegan]

my camel named Clyde

And in rode Fatima...

"with rings on her fingers
and bells on her toes
and a bone in her nose
ho,ho!"