Speculation: 2014 - 2015 New York Rangers :: Roster building / proposal thread

[NYR Viper]

Very true. But if they signed Glass to be a goon, I would have hoped that they had learned from their mistakes when it comes to giving goons multi-year contracts.

True, although what stops Glass from being this teams Shawn Thornton?

 

[Fitzy]

To read this board, he fill no hole whatsoever.

If the majority of posters here had their way, every player on the team would be 5 foot 6 inches tall and wouldn't engage in any sort of physical play. The mere mention of needing more size r physicality is met with an immediate and unanimous uproar of objections and "toffness" pejoratives.

I've fought against pure goons on this team for years, but it seems the board has slanted so far to the other side they think we're playing in the SEL on a large rink surface.

 

[BobMarleyNYR]

I hope to be proven wrong but just being able to name players isn't depth. We could all name Marcus Jonasen, Evgeni Grachev, Brodie Dupont, Kenny Roche, Ryan Hilier, Max Campbell, etc a few years ago.

Ryan Bourque was drafted in 09.

If the Ranger felt there were kids ready to step in and make in impact, I'm not sure they give Tanner Glass a three year deal.

Forgot about Hillier lol... but I do remember guys like Falardeau, Bahensky, Byers, Novak, Graham, Zvachkin, Olver, Ryan. With so many 2nd round AND first round whifs (one of those guys saw a few minutes in the NHL), I don't know how so many people point to Stepan, Staal, Dubinsky, Anisimov and Kreider and say we draft so well.

 

[Beer League Sniper]

The cap should have been higher



http://nypost.com/2014/06/28/incredulous-isles-gm-needs-some-wins-to-back-up-his-attitude/

I am sure there are players who didn't like losing an extra 3% of their salaries so Heatley or another older vet can get a decent NHL contract. Heatley has made a ton of money in his NHL career.

The players are guaranteed 50%. That's it. If the players receive more than their 50%,that money comes out of their pockets.

All of those compliance buyouts count against the players share.

The Canadian dollar is another factor. Glenn Healey said a penny drop in the CDN results in $9M. The shortfall comes out of their players pockets.

It's interesting that a year and a half after a lockout, the players choose to screw one another the first chance they get.

 

[RangerBoy]

Brian Boyle overplayed his hand. Larry Brooks tweeted Boyle had at least one five year offer on the table. A Winnipeg writer Ken Wiebe tweeted the Jets were very interested in Boyle. James Mirtle tweeted the Leafs were interested in Boyle. Yesterday Boyle spoke to the TB media and he turned down a better contract from the Leafs. TO was probably the team with the 5 year offer. Boyle got married two weeks ago and his wife is from Orlando. She wanted to live in Florida. Boyle signed late in the day on July 1. I hope Brian stays married to her for a long time. She cost him money in free agency. Brian could be paying more in a divorce settlement. I read Boyle's agent wanted a contract which the Rangers didn't want to touch. Big money and big term. Boyle ends up with 3 years/$6M. Boyle wants to have a bigger role than just 4th line and PK duties. He wasn't getting more than that with the Rangers but 3 years/$6M seems light. He turned down a better offer from the Leafs.

 

[JESSEWENEEDTOCOOK]

Brian Boyle overplayed his hand. Larry Brooks tweeted Boyle had at least one five year offer on the table. A Winnipeg writer Ken Wiebe tweeted the Jets were very interested in Boyle. James Mirtle tweeted the Leafs were interested in Boyle. Yesterday Boyle spoke to the TB media and he turned down a better contract from the Leafs. TO was probably the team with the 5 year offer. Boyle got married two weeks ago and his wife is from Orlando. She wanted to live in Florida. Boyle signed late in the day on July 1. I hope Brian stays married to her for a long time. She cost him money in free agency. Brian could be paying more in a divorce settlement. I read Boyle's agent wanted a contract which the Rangers didn't want to touch. Big money and big term. Boyle ends up with 3 years/$6M. Boyle wants to have a bigger role than just 4th line and PK duties. He wasn't getting more than that with the Rangers but 3 years/$6M seems light. He turned down a better offer from the Leafs.

I bet she cost him more money than just that.

 

[Fitzy]

It's Semenov all over again.

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

And while "naming players isn't depth" is correct, as lousy as this might make you feel, but this is the deepest pool the Rangers have had in a long time, in terms of "players that could have an NHL future".

If you can spew that garbage now, when the Rangers' farm is consistently ranked in the bottom third of the league in most reputable scouting services (including the one for which this board is named), I suppose you can say it anytime.

 

[Beer League Sniper]

TBL has great F depth. I don't see any way that Boyle gets a bigger role than he did in NY. Why did he have to mess up a good thing? I would have given him the contract he ended up getting with Tampa, he just wouldn't have gotten 3rd line duty. Boyle was a black hole on the 3rd line. As a 4th liner and PKer, the man was one of the best in the league. Shaking my head that he couldn't see that. Deluded by his agent, most likely.

 

[Beer League Sniper]

If you can spew that garbage now, when the Rangers' farm is consistently ranked in the bottom third of the league in most reputable scouting services (including the one for which this board is named), I suppose you can say it anytime.

And yet, we've been pretty consistently drawing legitimate NHLers from our farm all the while. Is the top end talent there? Of course not, but I still feel that our farm gets underrated. Show me another team that has traded away as many picks as we have that has a better farm.

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

And yet, we've been pretty consistently drawing legitimate NHLers from our farm all the while. Is the top end talent there? Of course not, but I still feel that our farm gets underrated. Show me another team that has traded away as many picks as we have that has a better farm.

And how long until the well runs dry? Especially when 1st rounders are being thrown out in an effort to win now?

 

[Beer League Sniper]

And how long until the well runs dry? Especially when 1st rounders are being thrown out in an effort to win now?

I don't disagree with your premise. I don't like trading away high picks on such a regular basis either. Despite this, our farm has been yielding more value than many ranked above it. I don't put much stock into where our prospect pool is ranked. We're going to get ranked very low because we don't have the flash of big names who were highly drafted. Nonetheless, our pool is very deep, much deeper than in years past.

 

[vipernsx]

True, although what stops Glass from being this teams Shawn Thornton?

Hockey Skills?


Or the idea that after his ELC, Thornton has never been given a 3 year deal or made more than 1.2m per year?

 

[vipernsx]

So glad we didn't tie up a contract on Sergey Tolchinsky last year. If we did we wouldn't have been able sign guys like Mueller and Hunwick.

I'm not liking Slats off season moves so far.

 

[NYR Viper]

Hockey Skills?


Or the idea that after his ELC, Thornton has never been given a 3 year deal or made more than 1.2m per year?

Does he really have that great of skills or do his linemates make him look better than he is? I think it's the latter.

1.1 million is what he made in Boston. The cap has gone up. 1.45 has to be pretty close to the percentage 1.1 was a few years ago.

I think, for me at least, it all depends on who they can grab to play on the other side of that duo for the 4th line.

 

[BlueshirtBlitz]

That's not.

Nobody doesn't want size and talent. We complain about signing ****** hockey players like Glass who are in this league solely because they can hit.

 

[NYR Viper]

That's not.

Nobody doesn't want size and talent. We complain about signing ****** hockey players like Glass who are in this league solely because they can hit.

Chris Neil has made a pretty nice career for himself like that. There are countless players whose main objective is to hit and make other players not feel comfortable on the ice. I believe this Rangers team doesn't have enough of those players. In saying that, I don't like the glass signing, but I am in a wait and see approach currently

 

[Beacon]

Forgot about Hiller lol... but I do remember guys like Falardeau, Bahensky, Byers, Novak, Graham, Zvachkin, Olver, Ryan. With so many 2nd round AND first round whifs (one of those guys saw a few minutes in the NHL), I don't know how so many people point to Stepan, Staal, Dubinsky, Anisimov and Kreider and say we draft so well.

Because second round picks become NHLers 20% of the time for the average team. The Rangers are at almost 50-50. To double the league average is a huge accomplishment.

This is not recognized by the fans due to their ignorance, as they expect a #10 to be a star (no star drafted at #10 since the 1980s), a late first to be top-6 (50-50 NHL odds, maybe even a bit worse) and a second rounder to be at least an above average third liner (1 in 5 odds of ever wearing an NHL jersey).

That's why getting bums like Stepan, Anisimov and Dubinsky in the second round seems like such a disappointment.

 

[NYR Viper]

Because second round picks become NHLers 20% of the time for the average team. The Rangers are at almost 50-50. To double the league average is a huge accomplishment.

This is not recognized by the fans due to their ignorance, as they expect a #10 to be a star (no star drafted at #10 since the 1980s), a late first to be top-6 (50-50 NHL odds, maybe even a bit worse) and a second rounder to be at least an above average third liner (1 in 5 odds of ever wearing an NHL jersey).

That's why getting bums like Stepan, Anisimov and Dubinsky in the second round seems like such a disappointment.

Yep, people don't really understand the percentages because all anyone remembers is Tarasenko. What about Burmistrov?

Tons of teams miss all the time even in the 1st round.

 

[Trxjw]

Because second round picks become NHLers 20% of the time for the average team. The Rangers are at almost 50-50. To double the league average is a huge accomplishment.

This is not recognized by the fans due to their ignorance, as they expect a #10 to be a star (no star drafted at #10 since the 1980s), a late first to be top-6 (50-50 NHL odds, maybe even a bit worse) and a second rounder to be at least an above average third liner (1 in 5 odds of ever wearing an NHL jersey).

That's why getting bums like Stepan, Anisimov and Dubinsky in the second round seems like such a disappointment.

The only ignorance is equating single selections to the overall probability of drafting success. If every team selected in the exact same spot every year while the quality of each draft remained perfectly even, then yes, that might be a valid point. However, when you have different organizations making different selections in different portions of the first round each year, all while the talent available is constantly in flux, then it's nonsensical.

Sure, no "stars" have been taken at #10 since 1980. Yet how many stars were taken after #10? The probability of getting an elite talent is better with a higher draft selection simply because you have a larger group of potential stars to select from.

The draft is not a science, but there are certain teams who are much better at drafting than others. The expectation is that an organization will make the most out of their selections. If the team selects a good player in the 2nd, and drafts a total flop in the first, it doesn't negate the misfortune of missing on the first pick they made. A "good" draft doesn't mean the team couldn't have had a "great" draft.

You can point at the percentages, but in the last 20 years, the Rangers have been pretty poor in the first round. They've drafted two players who have played more than 120 games for them in their careers. They also traded another away in Korpikoski for a guy with no toolbox.

 

[SupersonicMonkey*]

...

I'm not liking Slats off season moves so far.

I'm not in love with his moves, either. But the one that sticks out to me is Stralman.

I don't love the Glass signing. He is a good guy, and dedicated father, but he isn't a very good hockey player. This was a guy Vigneault wanted, though, apparently.

The signings I like because of potential and low cost are Mueller, Kostka, and Kompfer. If Kompfer were 2 years younger i think everyone here would be very happy. He has a good skill set and upside.

Mueller and Kostka can fill roles for league minimum.

Dan Boyle, i am worried about. He used to be one of my favorite players because i am partial to offensive defensemen that can skate. I am worried about his head (concussion) and his legs. Can he continue to play the minutes we need him to? I voiced my opinion about the decision to let Stralman walk in favor of a guy 11 years older, but he is here now, can't change it, we can only chose to route for him. Rangers need him to step up.

I don't mind Miller taking a center spot. He is the future there behind Stepan, so let's see what he's got. He has size, he can skate, he can play physical, and he has good hands. The defensive part of the game he can learn.

To me, the most important decision now will be who they replace Pouliot with. We will have roughly 2 million in cap space after the RFAs sign. Can we fit Setoguchi in? He is the guy available via free agency that I want. He has a high skill level, he can skate, he has decent size, right-handed shot that Vignault wanted up front on the Power Play, he can score. For what ever reason he is a left over after July 1. Can we get him on a bargain value contract? He could be a real good fit with this club and it's system.

It doesn't look like any team in our division pushed themselves over the top. So the division is still wide open. If we can get everyone to gel quickly and play consistently, we can contend for the Metro Title.

 

[Beacon]

Yep, people don't really understand the percentages because all anyone remembers is Tarasenko. What about Burmistrov?

Tons of teams miss all the time even in the 1st round.

If you're a GM and I have to gamble at #10 to get Tarasenko or Burmistrov, not knowing which one of them will turn out to be which, do you risk it or go for a solid asset in McIlrath who will bring a unique skill set, likely on the second pair? Most wouldn't risk their jobs and go for the Burmistrov/Tarasenko option.

But as fans, this choice isn't faced. Nor do we have to remember the dozens of people here clamoring for Burmistrov. We can pretend that we all knew that Tarasenko will be great, and wonder why the GM can't have 20/20 hindsight on draft day.

Again, anyone who doesn't recognize that we have done a great job drafting is simply unaware the odds a draft pick has to face to make the NHL.

 

[SupersonicMonkey*]

If I am a GM and I have to gamble at #10 to get Tarasenko or Burmistrov, not knowing which one of them will turn out to be which, do you risk it or go for a solid asset in McIlrath who will bring a unique skill set, likely on the second pair? Most wouldn't risk their jobs and go for the Burmistrov/Tarasenko option.

But as fans, this choice isn't faced. Nor do we have to remember the dozens of people here clamoring for Burmistrov. We can pretend that we all knew that Tarasenko will be great, and wonder why the GM can't have 20/20 hindsight on draft day.

Again, anyone who doesn't recognize that we have done a great job drafting is simply unaware the odds a draft pick has to face to make the NHL.

If you get one NHL player out of each draft, you are very good at drafting.

Reason why i am never in support of boom-or-bust type picks. Draft the player with the mental, physical, and skill set that translates to the pro game. If he only becomes a 3rd-4th line forward or 3rd pair defender, so be it. Those guys are valuable. If they max out as 2nd line forwards or second pair defenders, take it and run.

The draft is such a crapshoot.

The Rangers have drafted well. And it is one of the reasons not having a 1st until 2016 is a killer, because in this draft and in 2015, two deep drafts, i trust we could have gotten a core piece in the 1st round of each.

 

[Emptyvoid]

The Rangers had a much stronger stable going back 3,5,8 years. I dont think anyone will argue that.

The question is, are you naming those 6 guys just because they are 6 top prospects, or do you really think they'll make a positive impact with the Rangers?

Because, quite frankly, there will always be 6 names for you to reel off.

Miller, Fast and Allen are three guys that I expect to make a positive impact with the Rangers. They've done well in the AHL and all have not looked out of place in their most recent NHL stints. They may not have been difference makers consistently yet, but they've carried their weight.

 

[BobMarleyNYR]

And yet, we've been pretty consistently drawing legitimate NHLers from our farm all the while. Is the top end talent there? Of course not, but I still feel that our farm gets underrated. Show me another team that has traded away as many picks as we have that has a better farm.

You really can't say, "oh, we've drafted decent enough players and that's GOOD ENOUGH. You either put together a good, winning team or you're not good at acquiring prospects, whether through the draft or free agency, that's not good or decent. There is only good or badif you want to build a winning team.