Speculation: 2014 - 2015 New York Rangers :: Roster building / proposal thread Part III

[Raspewtin]

Thank you. What the hell the other guy was talking about i have no idea. But thank you for understanding my point. I dont see room for Mcilrath. And like you understood the trade off of what trading Klein would bring back (plus losing his very cap friendly contract and his consistency) vs what an unproven Mcilrath would bring back for some more offensive help is what i am putting out there for consideration.

How Skjei, Buchnevich, and Duclair made it into this discussion is shear ignorance.

I will never be able to see the logic that even if McIlrath is better, trade him because Klein is locked up cheaper. First of all, like it or not, 2.9 million is very expensive for a bottom pair defenseman, and that's what he is on this team. If McIlrath even sticks to the line-up it'd be because he forced Klein out of a spot, or one of the top 3 RHD would have to be injured for a significant amount of time.

Now lets look at the positives of keeping McIlrath and trading Klein if such an occurance were to happen.

1. Klein's value is higher than McIlrath's easily unless McIlrath solidifes himself as a top 4 D relatively early.

2. McIlrath brings something to the lineup that no other d-man does. Size and ruggedness. We lack that on our d-core. LA set up shop in front of Henrik and we had no answer. Klein's playing style is redundant with Staal and Girardi on the team.

3. McIlrath is more cost controlled, obviously. And he's 22. Klein is about to turn 30. Why are we keeping the 30 year old to be just about as good, or worse?

4. It saves cap RIGHT NOW to help extending our impending 6 billion free agents, again.

 

[Infinitum Vitae*]

Lol McIlrath is so popular

 

[RGY]

Lol McIlrath is so popular

I'm so sick of discussin a prosect who has not been able to make the jump yet to the NHL. And i am not in that camp calling him a bust...but he is 22, has had knee surgery to come back from, and is still trying to solidify his defensive game and improve his skating to stay at the NHL level.

Let's discuss players that will actually be on the roster opening night...hence the thread title

 

[Raspewtin]

I'm so sick of discussin a prosect who has not been able to make the jump yet to the NHL. And i am not in that camp calling him a bust...but he is 22, has had knee surgery to come back from, and is still trying to solidify his defensive game and improve his skating to stay at the NHL level.

Let's discuss players that will actually be on the roster opening night...hence the thread title

4 defensemen from the entire 2010 draft have made the NHL for a full season. 4.

Him being 22 for where he's at is perfectly fine.

 

[RGY]

4 defensemen from the entire 2010 draft have made the NHL for a full season. 4.

Him being 22 for where he's at is perfectly fine.

Don't care is 1 defenseman from that draft made it to the NHL for a full season. Those aren't our players nor do i care about them. I care about the one we drafted and evaluating where he is at.

Again I will remind you that this thread is about the 2014-2015 roster. It is literally at the top of every page. If you wanna sit here and tell me you really believe Mcilrath has a shot at making THIS years roster then thats youre opinion. I dont think he has progressed enough for the rangers to deal Klein, Moore, or Staal at any point during this upcoming season. I dont see him outplaying the current 6 in camp. That is the bottom line.

 

[Ola]

I will never be able to see the logic that even if McIlrath is better, trade him because Klein is locked up cheaper. First of all, like it or not, 2.9 million is very expensive for a bottom pair defenseman, and that's what he is on this team. If McIlrath even sticks to the line-up it'd be because he forced Klein out of a spot, or one of the top 3 RHD would have to be injured for a significant amount of time.

Now lets look at the positives of keeping McIlrath and trading Klein if such an occurance were to happen.

1. Klein's value is higher than McIlrath's easily unless McIlrath solidifes himself as a top 4 D relatively early.

2. McIlrath brings something to the lineup that no other d-man does. Size and ruggedness. We lack that on our d-core. LA set up shop in front of Henrik and we had no answer. Klein's playing style is redundant with Staal and Girardi on the team.

3. McIlrath is more cost controlled, obviously. And he's 22. Klein is about to turn 30. Why are we keeping the 30 year old to be just about as good, or worse?

4. It saves cap RIGHT NOW to help extending our impending 6 billion free agents, again.

Agreed, McI got a big year for him comin up.

If he this year can show that he can play and hold his own on a 3rd pairing he will play. The brass thinks we are in a tough division, and it's hard to not agree. Columbus is coming up too. If we can get 10 really hard nosed gritty years coming up from McI it will be really valuble for us. If he can play we will make room for him and Klein seem like the obvious candidate to go.

To put it like this, as soon as McI can handle 15 minutes a night in the NHL he will play because he just changes the outlook of the team. Either we can play with two heavy-weights, one on the 3rd pairing and one on the 4th line, or we can play "hockey players" altogether on the 4th line because we got McI. We get a home grown enforcer who can play somewhat at least in McI. We get a crease clearing D and someone that can hit. No team is that tough at all in this league any more, even a team like Boston got a ton of players that are non-physical. With McI we would go from being one of the softest team to maybe even one of the more tougher teams.

 

[Raspewtin]

Don't care is 1 defenseman from that draft made it to the NHL for a full season. Those aren't our players nor do i care about them. I care about the one we drafted and evaluating where he is at.

Again I will remind you that this thread is about the 2014-2015 roster. It is literally at the top of every page. If you wanna sit here and tell me you really believe Mcilrath has a shot at making THIS years roster then thats youre opinion. I dont think he has progressed enough for the rangers to deal Klein, Moore, or Staal at any point during this upcoming season. I dont see him outplaying the current 6 in camp. That is the bottom line.

It was more of a point to illustrate that defensemen, uh, take time to develop. Like half this board totally forgot about. They're used to players like DZ, McD, Staal, etc making the NHL at 21. Defensemen take long to develop, big defensemen take even longer.

 

[silverfish]

Hm.

I'm inclined to agree with those who believe that if McIlrath pushes Klein for a spot, Klein is on his way out via trade.

I don't think it'll happen in training camp, though. He still needs some time.

Maybe if (God forbid) someone on the right-side goes down to injury and Mac comes up and is showing off his game, then sometime this season it'll happen for sure. I think this happens sometime around July 2015 though if Dylan has another good year of progression.

 

[GAGLine]

McIlrath isn't pushing Klein out of a spot this year. Staal may be gone next year. Klein played the left side at times when Diaz was in the lineup. Boyle will be gone in 2 years.

Trading Klein would be awfully short sighted. He is our insurance policy.

 

[Fletch]

Hm.

I'm inclined to agree with those who believe that if McIlrath pushes Klein for a spot, Klein is on his way out via trade.

I don't think it'll happen in training camp, though. He still needs some time.

Maybe if (God forbid) someone on the right-side goes down to injury and Mac comes up and is showing off his game, then sometime this season it'll happen for sure. I think this happens sometime around July 2015 though if Dylan has another good year of progression.

That is the spot for which he is fighting, and while Klein is a great insurance policy and he's one of the best 3rd pair defensemen out there, if Staal is resigned this team is going to need to find a couple million $$$ from somewhere and if McIlrath eventually can show he can play that position (not better than Klein, necessarily, but competently on a daily basis), Klein would be the cap casualty. Tough keeping around insurance policies when you need top line players. Having said that, McIlrath still has a lot of work before that happens and I would not be counting on that happening. The other scenario is Staal is gone, Klein/Moore becomes the second pairing and Boyle/LD is the third (which is why, I believe, they wanted to get a pro look at Skjei to see if he would be that guy). Weaker defense, but I'm not sure today who would be Staal's replacement. Something may have to give to fit in Zucc, Stepan, et al.

 

[Mac n Gs]

Haven't those who watch Hartford a lot said that McIlrath, if he stays on his same development curve, should be worthy of a midseason call-up?

Also, what are the chances Kristo can play LW? I know Fast has no issues playing either wing, but I was wondering if Kristo could get some looks playing LW.

 

[Wolfy*]

Lol McIlrath is so popular

Of course...he's big and can fight. With him and Glass in the lineup we'd be pretty tough.

Whether or not they make the team better is another matter

 

[rangers1314]

Do we have a chance of signing Hayes? I posted this in the Trade Board thread.

From what I've read, no. It seems like Nashville and Colorado are seen as the favorites.

 

[NYR Viper]

Of course...he's big and can fight. With him and Glass in the lineup we'd be pretty tough.

Whether or not they make the team better is another matter

This is the part that gets me. So what you're saying is you don't watch him play?

People who just generalize like, "well he's tough, which is why everyone loves him" make no sense. The kid played top-pairing defense in the AHL as a 21 year old. There is no need to rush him when the Rangers have the depth they do already.

Haven't those who watch Hartford a lot said that McIlrath, if he stays on his same development curve, should be worthy of a midseason call-up?

Also, what are the chances Kristo can play LW? I know Fast has no issues playing either wing, but I was wondering if Kristo could get some looks playing LW.

Yes, he will be ready by ~mid-season.

Don't care is 1 defenseman from that draft made it to the NHL for a full season. Those aren't our players nor do i care about them. I care about the one we drafted and evaluating where he is at.

Again I will remind you that this thread is about the 2014-2015 roster. It is literally at the top of every page. If you wanna sit here and tell me you really believe Mcilrath has a shot at making THIS years roster then thats youre opinion. I dont think he has progressed enough for the rangers to deal Klein, Moore, or Staal at any point during this upcoming season. I dont see him outplaying the current 6 in camp. That is the bottom line.

And yet you brought him up on the last page and started bashing him?

 

[alkurtz]

I think to many of us have gotten spoiled with how injury free the Ranger D has been the last few years. When we've lost someone for a stretch of games, it generally was only that one guy. It is more normal for teams, during the course of a season, to lose two (or more) regular D men at a time. This hasn't happened to us and hopefully will not this year. Hey, Falk got in only one game after the end of December and that was only for the last game.

You have to figure that in most years a team needs 8 or 9 D, including those in the AHL ready to fill in.

We need all of our D, our top D (including Staal and Klein), our top D prospects at Hartford (McI and Allen), plus all the other veteran D we signed (Hunwick, et al), in order to be successful.

We've been incredibly lucky...hopefully it will continue, but the odds are, one of these years that it won't.

 

[NYR Viper]

Here's a name that I think could do well on the 4th line with Moore and Lombardi and someone who i think would cost next to nothing. Ruslan Fedotenko. Left wing. Very good PKer. Solid build, hard along the boards, heavy shot.

Maybe sign him for 750-850k as a 12th/13th forward?

 

[RGY]

Here's a name that I think could do well on the 4th line with Moore and Lombardi and someone who i think would cost next to nothing. Ruslan Fedotenko. Left wing. Very good PKer. Solid build, hard along the boards, heavy shot.

Maybe sign him for 750-850k as a 12th/13th forward?

Fedotenko cant skate with the speed of the NHL anymore...or at least not with the game the rangers are going to play

 

[RGY]

This is the part that gets me. So what you're saying is you don't watch him play?

People who just generalize like, "well he's tough, which is why everyone loves him" make no sense. The kid played top-pairing defense in the AHL as a 21 year old. There is no need to rush him when the Rangers have the depth they do already.



Yes, he will be ready by ~mid-season.



And yet you brought him up on the last page and started bashing him?

No i was not bashing him. In fact i said im not in the camp that calls him a bust or panics. I simply dont see a spot for him nor am i completely sold yet. I understand he brings a different element that we dont currently have. But that one to two elements of his game would have to out shine 6 defensemen that make up for a pretty solid blueline. I just dont see it happening. Its my opinion and im sorry if im not as sold on him or in love with him as others here are

 

[Trxjw]

If McIlrath can take the next step forward in his development and solidify himself as a reliable bottom-pairing defender in the NHL, then you can bet Klein will be moved to free up cap space and a roster spot for him. The Rangers are in a cap crunch and will be in the same boat next season. They need these kids to play. I'd be surprised if McIlrath wasn't getting regular NHL minutes by the end of the year. He had a strong finish to the season.

 

[NYR Viper]

If McIlrath can take the next step forward in his development and solidify himself as a reliable bottom-pairing defender in the NHL, then you can bet Klein will be moved to free up cap space and a roster spot for him. The Rangers are in a cap crunch and will be in the same boat next season. They need these kids to play. I'd be surprised if McIlrath wasn't getting regular NHL minutes by the end of the year. He had a strong finish to the season.

They also can recoup a nice asset moving a veteran defensive d-man who can play in the top-4 and block shots signed at a reasonable contract.

 

[silverfish]

They also can recoup a nice asset moving a veteran defensive d-man who can play in the top-4 and block shots signed at a reasonable contract.

Absolutely. At minimum, Klein should return a 3rd line winger or center for this team. I would want more than that, just think that's the minimum. I think he's quite underrated here.

B-level prospect and a draft pick would be a good return for him, too.

Getting very ahead of ourselves here. Just hoping that the time comes where McIlrath pushes that spot. We could really use him if he progresses to the point where he's ready and soon. Getting another valuable piece on a cheap, cost-controlled contract.

 

[Zil]

They also can recoup a nice asset moving a veteran defensive d-man who can play in the top-4 and block shots signed at a reasonable contract.

I'll take one or two more 2015 second round picks. We'd have enough picks to either move up to the first round or catch a lot of talent in what is supposed to be a deep draft.

 

[Ola]

If McIlrath can take the next step forward in his development and solidify himself as a reliable bottom-pairing defender in the NHL, then you can bet Klein will be moved to free up cap space and a roster spot for him. The Rangers are in a cap crunch and will be in the same boat next season. They need these kids to play. I'd be surprised if McIlrath wasn't getting regular NHL minutes by the end of the year. He had a strong finish to the season.

Agreed. There is a lot of gloom and doom around here, but I think McI has potential to really cheer some people up if he comes along alright.

He aint that far off, and he has abilities that really will be liked in NY. Early on it will be in a limited capacity, but with good coaching he could also become a pretty solid hockey player in 3-4 years.

 

[NYR Viper]

I'll take one or two more 2015 second round picks. We'd have enough picks to either move up to the first round or catch a lot of talent in what is supposed to be a deep draft.

I agree, take a couple of picks or a pick and a good young player.

 

[Trxjw]

NHL caliber right-handed defenders are hard to find. Klein is on a very good contract for a guy who can be a #4 defender most nights. His value was down in Nashville once Seth Jones emerged and he became expendable. Have to think his value has only gone up since then. Had a great playoff run.