I'm not saying trade Thornton, but you can't really compare him to Brassard (and at this point, I'm not going to predict when he really slows down). There really isn't a comparison between the two. To me the biggest issue with Thornton is affordability, and the Rangers' lack of assets to pull off this type of move.
Speculation: 2014 - 2015 New York Rangers :: Roster building / proposal thread Part II
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I'm not saying trade Thornton, but you can't really compare him to Brassard (and at this point, I'm not going to predict when he really slows down). There really isn't a comparison between the two. To me the biggest issue with Thornton is affordability, and the Rangers' lack of assets to pull off this type of move.
I don't need to be hyperbolic to argue that your argument is some serious BS. Proven is definitely not greater than potential "every time." In some situations, with some players, yes. Not in this situation, definitely not with this player.
Thornton is another Richards waiting to happen. Remember Richie was a "proven" 90 point player when he got here. And what's worse is Thornton isn't half the leader Richards is/was. The guy is a loser. So yes, I'd rather take the chance on Skjei eventually becoming a young top 4 Dman on a friendly contract, rather than taking the chance of Jumbo sucking for a couple of years like every other big name, "over the hump" center we have brought in.
If you want to give up our BEST defensive prospect (how you can honestly call a 20 year old with 2 years of college under his belt "middling"?) for Thornton thinking he's the piece that's going to put us over the edge....dude.
I don't want to pile on too heavy 77 (numeric shortcut ok?), but basically agree w/above criticism of your post:
Thornton too close to 40 to even think about, plus exp, contract.
HELL NO.
Skjei projects to be our Staal replacement.
He is a superior skater.
Not Kreider quality, but maybe a Letang lite?
Def do not want to give him up unless a special talent comes back.
TheTakedown
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At this point, Brassard seems the only one tradeable from the NHL roster. Hagelin can't go, Glass isn't being moved, Miller is not being sent away, and we're not touching the remainder of the top 6...
That being said, the only way I do Brass + for Thornton is if the plus is a MIDDLING prospect... but that's it.. no more.
That being said, the only way I do Brass + for Thornton is if the plus is a MIDDLING prospect... but that's it.. no more.
Don't want JT, but if we are flipping pieces, best might be Nash to Detroit
Nash + Rangers 2016 1st
for
Jurco, Helm, Adam Larkin + Det. 2015 1st [+ cap relief]
then, instead of JT, see if Sharp can be had reasonably from Hawks.
Sharp much better fit for this club; way better skater; finisher.
Trading for Thornton would be a giant mistake. I am vehemently opposed. If he was on a one-year deal, I'd be all for it. But three more at that $6.75m hit? We get one season of him AND Nash together. And isn't that the point of bringing in Jumbo? No way we could make those cap hits work and re-sign who we need to re-sign.
Need to target a 2C/3C tweener that's under 26 and over 6'1" and plays that way. The biggest thing missing from the Rangers right now is a (read: proven) center who can play minutes and has good size.
Is that asking too much?
Doing some research on the big board.
Caps' Marcus Johanson fits this to a T.
Price?
remains to be determined, hopefully JMoore +.
We agree to disagree, but you are totally ignoring my prerequisite: "for a windfall profit".
If you continue to maintain blind loyalty like that, it will not help.
I'm not for pushing Stepan out the door.
Even if it is not C, if the profit is huge enough, we need to consider.
Only way to win cup besides getting lucky is to dominate, and we need more windfall, more horses, for that!
Lol, I'm not entering your crazy trade world, but saying that Sharp is better then JT LOLOLOLOLOL
LundqvistsEvilTwin
Registered User
BobMarleyNYR
Rangers future on D
It would have to be for an elite 1C, not a marginal upgrade. Steps 24 and he's a great defensive 1C. He still has a lot if potential.
Yup, Brassard has more "grace" than Thornton, thus we should keep Brassard over exploring Thornton.
Seriously, what sport do you watch?
Comparing Brad Richards who had ONE season over 80 points, to Joe Thornton who has consistently been putting up at least that many for over a decade is absurd. Comparing arguably the second best pure passer in the world to Derrick Brassard and his 45-point career year is even more absurd.
I think some of you watch a different sport than I do.
Like Fletch said, the ONLY issue with trading for Thornton is the cost (in assets) to acquire him, and making sure we're able to fit him under the cap.
I shouldn't need to tell you that 6.75 for a player of his calibre is underpayment and will increasingly be so as the cap continues to increase and guys like Brooks Orpik make 5.5 mil. 1.25 mil difference between Orpik and Thornton. Anything seem off there? Jonathan Toews makes almost double Thornton's cap-hit and puts up less points.
Thornton's game has never been speed and I don't see him slowing down much over the next three seasons. He's an elite playmaker; as elite as they come.
Yet some of you want to keep a 45-point center who will make north of 5mil on any long-term deal, and Brady Skjei who's at least a year away from the AHL, not likely the NHL. Oh, but he "projects to be Staal's replacement." Who says we're replacing Staal any time soon? "Letang lite?" Are you kidding me?
An elite playmaker (probably the best pure passer in the world behind only Crosby) @ 6.75mil
versus
A 45-point 2nd line center @ ~5mil
There is no comparison. They don't belong in the same paragraph.
Seriously, what sport do you watch?
Comparing Brad Richards who had ONE season over 80 points, to Joe Thornton who has consistently been putting up at least that many for over a decade is absurd. Comparing arguably the second best pure passer in the world to Derrick Brassard and his 45-point career year is even more absurd.
I think some of you watch a different sport than I do.
Like Fletch said, the ONLY issue with trading for Thornton is the cost (in assets) to acquire him, and making sure we're able to fit him under the cap.
I shouldn't need to tell you that 6.75 for a player of his calibre is underpayment and will increasingly be so as the cap continues to increase and guys like Brooks Orpik make 5.5 mil. 1.25 mil difference between Orpik and Thornton. Anything seem off there? Jonathan Toews makes almost double Thornton's cap-hit and puts up less points.
Thornton's game has never been speed and I don't see him slowing down much over the next three seasons. He's an elite playmaker; as elite as they come.
Yet some of you want to keep a 45-point center who will make north of 5mil on any long-term deal, and Brady Skjei who's at least a year away from the AHL, not likely the NHL. Oh, but he "projects to be Staal's replacement." Who says we're replacing Staal any time soon? "Letang lite?" Are you kidding me?
An elite playmaker (probably the best pure passer in the world behind only Crosby) @ 6.75mil
versus
A 45-point 2nd line center @ ~5mil
There is no comparison. They don't belong in the same paragraph.
Does not have to be a 1C.
Has to be premium talent upgrade, whatever position(s) trade value is returned.
Moving Brassard is an option.
Acquiring Thornton is not.
As to bold, we may need to move Staal, like it or not.
And yes, Skjei's skating is top calibre. Comparison is APT.
You are nuts.
Thornton is on a bad contract?
Thornton makes 1.25 mil more than BROOKS ORPIK.
6.75 for an elite 1C is underpayment. And it will continue to be increasingly more of an underpayment as the cap increases and more Toews/Kane 10.5 mil cap-hits are handed out.
Stepan might make 6.75 next season.
Joe Thornton is on one of the best contracts in the league for his production (excluding ELCs of course).
Then again, you think Sharp (who doesn't even play center anymore) is a better fit than Thornton.
LundqvistsEvilTwin
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BBKers
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JESSEWENEEDTOCOOK
Twenty f*ckin years
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NikC
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You've made some of the best pro Thornton arguments on this board to date.
Also consider the Nash factor. If Sather is truly looking to get this team back to the SCF, then hes going to want to maximize their potential.
$6.75M is a good cap number for an elite #1C. The question is: How much longer will he be an elite #1C? $6.67M looked like a bargain for Brad Richards until it was discovered that he was a 55 point center who was rapidly declining.
I tend to loathe the acquisitions of aging stars, but with one already on the roster and the team coming off of a SCF appearance, it certainly seems a little bit more palatable. However, outside of that vacuum, I have to wonder what trading Brassard would do to this team. It's a very tight group, and we saw what a big shakeup move can do to a team when we traded for Nash.
I tend to loathe the acquisitions of aging stars, but with one already on the roster and the team coming off of a SCF appearance, it certainly seems a little bit more palatable. However, outside of that vacuum, I have to wonder what trading Brassard would do to this team. It's a very tight group, and we saw what a big shakeup move can do to a team when we traded for Nash.
I don't want Thornton, but there is no way in this stratosphere that JT is not better then Sharp at this current moment. He's never been a fast skater that's not his game, he is one of the smartest players of this past generation.
I hate predicting when a star's production will fall off a cliff and I don't think shying away from every 35 year old is the greatest strategy out there, as many have played well into their mid-late 30s. That isn't a "go get Thornton at all costs" statement, it's just that I'm not as jaded on some vets as many. I believe SBOB put it well a while back...the Rangers are in a better position today for that aging vet than they were, say, in 2002. There is a more solid base with a good mix of youth and experienced youth, as well as a system that's been in place with Lundqvist in net that has worked. This isn't a broken team adding mercenaries to fill all their spots. They have a very good core that enables them to do things; just no cap wiggle room.
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