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Speculation: 2014 - 2015 New York Rangers :: Roster building / proposal thread Part II

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Acquiring Thornton would be great, but just not at too high of a cost.

The funny thing is that when he was traded to the Sharks, it was for Primeau, Stuart, and Sturm. Not much in value. I wouldn't give up Hags, but I can't see the numbers working otherwise.

Even if we gave them Glass (unlikely), Brass, and J. Moore, we'd still be over the cap, and I can't see the Sharks retaining salary on that deal.

Hypothetically we give up Hags and Brass. Then what?

Zuccs - Thornton - Nash
Kreider - Stepan - MSL
Stempniak - Miller - Fast
Glass - Moore - Lombardi
Mueller

The top 6 could theoretically work. I feel like that 3rd line would have strong potential to implode and would require a lot from Miller and Fast in terms of counting on them to quickly learn the NHL game and play defensively. Fourth line would be alright. Even so, we'd STILL have only 600k in space. At that point, I'd try to sign Peter Mueller or Ryan Carter to low-cost deals (~925k) and send one of Miller/Fast to the A. 500k in space then.
 
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I wouldn't give up Brass for Thornton, but I would pay a trade at the deadline for a UFA price. Look back at those deals. The Gabby trade. The Vanek trade. Like Lindberg, Skjei and a 3rd.

Sure it's wishful thinking to expect SJ to move him that cheap. But it depends on how bad they want to get rid of him. Joe T controls that himself, if e only is willing to waive for us Wilson has to decide if he wants to accept what Slats offering or keep Joe.

After we got Boyle, another issue is that it becomes darn hard to fit Joe under the cap. I am not sure how that could be done...
 
KOVALEV022473 said:
That son of a ***** said he he would only waive to play for US! If that's your definition of hate, then you and I have differing views on the word.
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Wait when was this? Thought all this talk of a trade with SJ was just speculation. Been out of the loop
 
Ola said:
I wouldn't give up Brass for Thornton, but I would pay a trade at the deadline for a UFA price. Look back at those deals. The Gabby trade. The Vanek trade. Like Lindberg, Skjei and a 3rd.

Sure it's wishful thinking to expect SJ to move him that cheap. But it depends on how bad they want to get rid of him. Joe T controls that himself, if e only is willing to waive for us Wilson has to decide if he wants to accept what Slats offering or keep Joe.

After we got Boyle, another issue is that it becomes darn hard to fit Joe under the cap. I am not sure how that could be done...
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Last year was a buyer's market. Recently, most years have had sellers markets. Gaustad for a first, etc.

If we're waiting for the deadline to add a big piece for cheap, that's not realistic. But I'm not interested in Thornton anyway
 
Hellion said:
Wait when was this? Thought all this talk of a trade with SJ was just speculation. Been out of theloop
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Dreger, tweeted it out shortly after Wilson called Thorton and Marleau out. I'll try to locate the tweet and link to it. However, you could find it pretty easily yourself on the main board trade thread.
 
Trading for Thornton would be stupid.

Trading Hagelin would be stupid.

Trading Skjei would be stupid.

Trading Brassard for Thornton would be stupid.

Hagelin and Brassard are entering their prime years, Thornton is exiting his. The Sharks are looking to get him out of the locker room and pass the torch to Couture and Pavelski for a reason.

Brassard at 5+ may be stupid, but trading for Thornton isn't a/the solution.

Right now the Rangers, despite what the "experts" will have you believe, have recouped the depth lost to free agency. Have gotten faster, have gotten more versatile. They are a team that has and will score by comity. 4 lines that can play in any game situation including late in close games.

Gut the depth for "Jumbo" and the team becomes top-heavy like they were in 12-13, and that spells early exit from the playoffs when those top guys wear out or are shut down and no one else can pick up the slack.
 
KOVALEV022473 said:
Can someone please link the Darren Dregger tweet about Thorton only waiving for NYR, please.
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I don't know anything about Dreger, but famous gum-chewer and NHL coach / exec / sportsnet analyst Doug MacLean claimed that Joe was only willin to waive his NTC to come to NYR. It was around June 17-19th. Check Doug MacLean's twitter and you'll find it.
 
ElectrocutedCat said:
Trading for Thornton would be stupid.

Trading Hagelin would be stupid.

Trading Skjei would be stupid.

Trading Brassard for Thornton would be stupid.

Hagelin and Brassard are entering their prime years, Thornton is exiting his. The Sharks are looking to get him out of the locker room and pass the torch to Couture and Pavelski for a reason.

Brassard at 5+ may be stupid, but trading for Thornton isn't a/the solution.

Right now the Rangers, despite what the "experts" will have you believe, have recouped the depth lost to free agency. Have gotten faster, have gotten more versatile. They are a team that has and will score by comity. 4 lines that can play in any game situation including late in close games.

Gut the depth for "Jumbo" and the team becomes top-heavy like they were in 12-13, and that spells early exit from the playoffs when those top guys wear out or are shut down and no one else can pick up the slack.
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Almost every line of this post is wrong. :laugh:

I don't know where to begin.

You refuse to trade Brady Skjei? He may never play a single NHL game. McIlrath was held out of the Nash deal. How's that working for us? Are we thanking God that we didn't lose that precious gem prospect? Proven > potential, every time. Let's not get hyperbolic and pretend that you think I'm suggesting that Tanner Glass has more value than Jonathon Drouin because he's proven. The point is that a middling prospect like Skjei who is still in college does not hold up any deal for Joe Thornton (probably the second best passer in the world, behind only Crosby)

Thornton is an elite offensive player, even at 34. If you think trading ~5M 45-point Brassard for 6.75M 75-point Thornton in the current "win-now" window of opportunity the Rangers are in is "stupid," then I'm not sure we have the grounds to engage in an intelligent discussion.
 
SeventySeven said:
Almost every line of this post is wrong. :laugh:

I don't know where to begin.

You refuse to trade Brady Skjei? He may never play a single NHL game. McIlrath was held out of the Nash deal. How's that working for us? Are we thanking God that we didn't lose that precious gem prospect? Proven > potential, every time. Let's not get hyperbolic and pretend that you think I'm suggesting that Tanner Glass has more value than Jonathon Drouin because he's proven. The point is that a middling prospect like Skjei who is still in college does not hold up any deal for Joe Thornton (probably the second best passer in the world, behind only Crosby)

Thornton is an elite offensive player, even at 34. If you think trading ~5M 45-point Brassard for 6.75M 75-point Thornton in the current "win-now" window of opportunity the Rangers are in is "stupid," then I'm not sure we have the grounds to engage in an intelligent discussion.
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Including Skjei for Thornton has a chance of becoming McDonagh for Gomez bad.

I'm not saying that chance is particularly high, but if I'm the GM, I'm not going anywhere near that. You'd be one Thornton injury away from being mentioned in the same breath as Bob Gainey.
 
SeventySeven said:
Almost every line of this post is wrong. :laugh:

I don't know where to begin.

You refuse to trade Brady Skjei? He may never play a single NHL game. McIlrath was held out of the Nash deal. How's that working for us? Are we thanking God that we didn't lose that precious gem prospect? Proven > potential, every time. Let's not get hyperbolic and pretend that you think I'm suggesting that Tanner Glass has more value than Jonathon Drouin because he's proven. The point is that a middling prospect like Skjei who is still in college does not hold up any deal for Joe Thornton (probably the second best passer in the world, behind only Crosby)

Thornton is an elite offensive player, even at 34. If you think trading ~5M 45-point Brassard for 6.75M 75-point Thornton in the current "win-now" window of opportunity the Rangers are in is "stupid," then I'm not sure we have the grounds to engage in an intelligent discussion.
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I don't need to be hyperbolic to argue that your argument is some serious BS. Proven is definitely not greater than potential "every time." In some situations, with some players, yes. Not in this situation, definitely not with this player.

Thornton is another Richards waiting to happen. Remember Richie was a "proven" 90 point player when he got here. And what's worse is Thornton isn't half the leader Richards is/was. The guy is a loser. So yes, I'd rather take the chance on Skjei eventually becoming a young top 4 Dman on a friendly contract, rather than taking the chance of Jumbo sucking for a couple of years like every other big name, "over the hump" center we have brought in.

If you want to give up our BEST defensive prospect (how you can honestly call a 20 year old with 2 years of college under his belt "middling"?) for Thornton thinking he's the piece that's going to put us over the edge....dude. :shakehead
 
SeventySeven said:
Almost every line of this post is wrong. :laugh:

I don't know where to begin.

You refuse to trade Brady Skjei? He may never play a single NHL game. McIlrath was held out of the Nash deal. How's that working for us? Are we thanking God that we didn't lose that precious gem prospect? Proven > potential, every time. Let's not get hyperbolic and pretend that you think I'm suggesting that Tanner Glass has more value than Jonathon Drouin because he's proven. The point is that a middling prospect like Skjei who is still in college does not hold up any deal for Joe Thornton (probably the second best passer in the world, behind only Crosby)

Thornton is an elite offensive player, even at 34. If you think trading ~5M 45-point Brassard for 6.75M 75-point Thornton in the current "win-now" window of opportunity the Rangers are in is "stupid," then I'm not sure we have the grounds to engage in an intelligent discussion.
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Except he isn't 34 anymore. He's 35. One year of 75 points from Thornton, if he still has that in him, is not more valuable than 4 or 5 years of 45 points from Brassard. Yeah, there are players that are effective into their late 30s. That doesn't mean there isn't increased risk in bringing in a player who has his contract for 3 years.

Truth is, if San Jose offered us Thornton for a 3rd round pick and retained half his salary, I still wouldn't do it. I don't think he fits this team or the organizational philosophy. And this is coming from someone who likes the player a lot. "Win-now" in the organization doesn't mean throwing out the baby with the bath water. There still has to be a plan for the roster. Thornton doesn't fit that plan.
 
Tawnos said:
Except he isn't 34 anymore. He's 35. One year of 75 points from Thornton, if he still has that in him, is not more valuable than 4 or 5 years of 45 points from Brassard. Yeah, there are players that are effective into their late 30s. That doesn't mean there isn't increased risk in bringing in a player who has his contract for 3 years.

Truth is, if San Jose offered us Thornton for a 3rd round pick and retained half his salary, I still wouldn't do it. I don't think he fits this team or the organizational philosophy. And this is coming from someone who likes the player a lot. "Win-now" in the organization doesn't mean throwing out the baby with the bath water. There still has to be a plan for the roster. Thornton doesn't fit that plan.
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I'd do that. I know it's an extreme example, but even 50 points for him is more than you'd get in that slot from anybody on the roster and at less than $3.5MM per, it's a steal as there aren't many players out there for that cost and production. And personally, I mentioned before, he'd fit in. I think he's an upgrade to Brassard, actually a big upgrade, and Brassard can continue to produce better than any other third liner in the league and fly under the radar. It's also a buffer for Stepan, who may not need one, but did have one in Richards. Finally, it's a centerman with whom I think MSL would do very well with. A guy who takes defenders with him and dishes the puck. Not saying go out and get him because reality is the Rangers cannot afford him, but I do think he would be accretive [why isn't that a word? I use it all the time in my line of work!] to the team.
 
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