Olympics: 2014 — Canada Roster Discussion (Part XVII) (Released, Post 1)

[Phrasing]

Except in the WJCs and Calder Cup, sure I guess he has a worse history in "big games".

I understand you don't believe Luongo can play big games, but you counter that with Price's junior tournament and AHL playoff?

At the NHL level and Olympics, Luongo has th experience and results, Price does not. Luongo will start, and if he falters, Price will get his chance.

 

[DyerMaker66*]

Somehow it was a 7 game series when his team only scored 7 goals. His team only scored a a goal per a game! They lost their best defensemen in Dan Hamhuis early in the first game. He had two shutouts. But it's his fault they lost?

I guess when an elite goaltender plays up to his calibre behind an elite defence the other team scores less goals, but when he plays terribly and cracks under the pressure of the big series the other team puts up 21 goals in 4 games. Weird how that works, eh?

In my opinion, it's intellectually dishonest to pretend Luongo was playing bad during the finals.

In my opinion, it's intellectually dishonest to pretend he didn't.

He wasn't lights out in the Olympics, but that performance was far from 'shaky.' I don't get it:

Of course you don't: You can't realize he almost stopped us from winning gold.

is this just because no one want s to give the Americans credit? The Canadian defense still allowed 36 shots on goal for their vaunted superiority. That's 0.94 save percentage for Luongo.

Stating the number of shots on goal without the context of said shots means absolutely nothing, especially when one of the easiest shots to stop led directly to the game-tying-goal.

 

[DyerMaker66*]

I understand you don't believe Luongo can play big games, but you counter that with Price's junior tournament and AHL playoff?

Yeah, who would think that establishing how a goalie has shown up in the big games that he's played in, while Luongo has failed to, would demonstrate how Price doesn't have a worse history in big games?

If those aren't "big games", in your opinion, then what are? Games 3 and 6 of the Stanley Cup Final, because Luongo sure looked great in those.

At the NHL level and Olympics, Luongo has th experience and results, Price does not. Luongo will start, and if he falters, Price will get his chance.

What results does Luongo have: Losing the most important series of his career? Looking terrible behind the Team Canada? Man, I love those "results".

 

[Wisp]

Yeah, who would think that establishing how a goalie has shown up in the big games that he's played in, while Luongo has failed to, would demonstrate how Price doesn't have a worse history in big games?

If those aren't "big games", in your opinion, then what are? Games 3 and 6 of the Stanley Cup Final, because Luongo sure looked great in those.



What results does Luongo have: Losing the most important series of his career? Looking terrible behind the Team Canada? Man, I love those "results".

How about getting things to the most important game of his career? What's the most important game Price has ever had?

And what's the context for that shot? Team Canada defending while outnumbered? Two unchecked American attackers in front of the net?

How about hockey being a sixty minute, team sport? How about that save from Neidermayer's turn over in the OT? Can't you realize Captain Scott almost stopped us from winning gold (and in the same breath, Luongo saved our chances)?

 

[Wisp]

I'll add I'm not a big fan of using team success to evaluate how good a goalie actually is. Price shouldn't be knocked for not having team success at the NHL level anymore than Luongo should for his team losing in the finals. Team quality is a big factor in both. I really do think Luongo's NHL team had no business being in a game 7 and the fact they were was because of his work in games 1, 2, and 7. He certainly wasn't great in the other four games, but the loss of Hamhuis, lack of Canucks goal scoring, disparity in team health are all factors that can't be ignored. For me it boils down to this: the odds were stacked up against him and Luongo was good enough to make it close.

Now, choosing a team Canada goalie: I think Luongo was objectively better in 2010 than Brodeur and Fleury and is playing better than Price is at the moment. That's the only reason why he should start for Team Canada.

 

[JackSlater]

And what's the context for that shot? Team Canada defending while outnumbered? Two unchecked American attackers in front of the net?

How about hockey being a sixty minute, team sport? How about that save from Neidermayer's turn over in the OT? Can't you realize Captain Scott almost stopped us from winning gold (and in the same breath, Luongo saved our chances)?

Luongo should have frozen the puck on a weak shot from Pavelski roughly 12 seconds before the goal, but he couldn't catch it. The Americans had many shots but few chances. The Kesler goal was quite weak. If Luongo had played well in that game, it would have been a shutout.

 

[DyerMaker66*]

How about getting things to the most important game of his career? What's the most important game Price has ever had? lol, you're going to say the Calder Cup - that is what I mean by intellectually dishonest - they are not remotely equivalent.

Yeah, professional hockey championship are all completely different from each other.

And what's the context for that shot? Team Canada defending while outnumbered? Two unchecked American attackers in front of the net?

The context is that it was a weak shot that should've been caught by him. Please re-watch the clip here:



Start at the face-off at 1:59: 18 seconds after the face-off Pavelski takes a shot on Luongo. There is no one with-in the hash-marks or with-in about a 5-foot radius of Luongo. Luongo flubs the catch and the Americans re-gain possession and that leads to the game-tying-goal. That's on no-one but Luongo.

How about hockey being a sixty minute, team sport?

But I thought Luongo was the only reason the Canucks got to the SCF?

How about that save from Neidermayer's turn over in the OT? Can't you realize Captain Scott almost stopped us from winning gold (and in the same breath, Luongo saving it)?

Again, that wouldn't have happened if Luongo was able to do his job correctly, because the game is already over.

 

[Wisp]

"Yeah, professional hockey championship are all completely different from each other."

Yes, they are completely different. We agree on something! Truly we can build a bridge can be built between our two houses.

"Again, that wouldn't have happened if Luongo was able to do his job correctly, because the game is already over."

The game ends when it's over. It'd be equivalent to me trying to say 'Luongo wouldn't have to make an extra save if one of the 30 skaters just did their job and scored another goal.' It's nonsense. If Niedermayer turned it over and we lost, that should reflect as badly on Niedermayer as it would have Luongo. Thankfully, Luongo is redeemed by saving it, and so is Neidermayer, because hey, it's a team sport.

"But I thought Luongo was the only reason the Canucks got to the SCF?"
I never said that, as per my post above, though I think his good play was an important play of a good team. More, I credit Luongo for pushing the Bruins to a game 7, given the disparity between the two teams. I thought the Blackhawks series was a poorest showing by Luongo, personally, while the Sharks were his best.

 

[DyerMaker66*]

"Again, that wouldn't have happened if Luongo was able to do his job correctly, because the game is already over."

The game ends when it's over. It'd be equivalent to me trying to say 'Luongo wouldn't have to make an extra save if one of the 30 skaters just did their job and scored another goal.'

Notice how you said "another", as in one more than was previously needed because of Luongo's collapse? It's because they aren't equal at all.

It's nonsense. If Niedermayer turned it over and we lost, that should reflect as badly on Niedermayer as it would have Luongo.

That didn't happen and it doesn't happen if Luongo does his job properly. Luongo wasn't able to do his job properly and hence this situation arose. Again, it's still Luongo's fault: He's the trigger cause; what happens next is irrelevant.

Thankfully, Luongo is redeemed by saving it, and so is Neidermayer, because hey, it's a team sport.

He didn't redeem a thing, because he caused it all to happen. Crosby and Iginla redeemed him.

"But I thought Luongo was the only reason the Canucks got to the SCF?"
I never said that, as per my post above. I said Luongo pushed it to a game 7.

So Luongo pushed it to game 7, as in he was the main reason they got to game seven, but you didn't say that? Okay...

 

[Uhmkay]

Notice how you said "another", as in one more than was previously needed because of Luongo's collapse? It's because they aren't equal at all.


That didn't happen and it doesn't happen if Luongo does his job properly. Luongo wasn't able to do his job properly and hence this situation arose. Again, it's still Luongo's fault: He's the trigger cause; what happens next is irrelevant.

He didn't redeem a thing, because he caused it all to happen. Crosby and Iginla redeemed him.

So Luongo pushed it to game 7, as in he was the main reason they got to game seven, but you didn't say that? Okay...

Luongo came in for game 7 against Chicago and WON the game.

You keep talking about how Luongo didn't make the save he needed to make to WIN the game against the US, but he did. After Neidermayer coughs up the puck in overtime to the US he made a save on a point blank unobstructed 10' shot from the net, which then turns directly into the rush the lead to Crosby's goal. If Luongo wasn't CLUTCH and saved Neidermayers ass... Crosby never scores the goal. He made the save he had too.

The Canucks had no business being in Game 7 of the Finals. They were only there BECAUSE Luongo was so good. All his team needed to do was play well for ONE game. Luongo pretty much won all three games himself and stood on his head, two being shutouts. Is it not too much to ask the rest of his team to just play ONE ****ing good game??? The Sedins had 2 points between them in 7 games.... and this is Luongo's fault?

Maybe you should try watching hockey bro... and not just posting blind statements because you're obviously not watching the game and are just either posting here to troll or you're ONLY watching games looking for negatives in Luongo's play and disregarding the positives.

I tell ya what... take all the negatives you can find about Luongo.... all of them. Losing in Game 7, having two ****** games in the finals... take it all. And the fact that Price has only managed to win just ONE playoff round... none in the last 5 years, and that's far worse than anything you can say about Luongo.

Price has done NOTHING since he's been in the NHL.

And he's playing like **** at the moment to top it off.

At this point, I'd almost prefer to have Mike Smith in net.

 

[Phrasing]

Yeah, who would think that establishing how a goalie has shown up in the big games that he's played in, while Luongo has failed to, would demonstrate how Price doesn't have a worse history in big games?

If those aren't "big games", in your opinion, then what are? Games 3 and 6 of the Stanley Cup Final, because Luongo sure looked great in those.



What results does Luongo have: Losing the most important series of his career? Looking terrible behind the Team Canada? Man, I love those "results".

Playing in the playoffs is much bigger than the AHL playoffs or WJC. Other wise Pogge or Chris Bourque are better big game players than Luongo.

You can't talk about Luongo losing without ignoring Price's performance in the playoffs. You picked two games in the SCF where he gave up plenty of goals, but there were also two shutouts that series. I remember those playoffs and Luongo was the reason the Canucks made it that far. Say what you want about the Olympics about the game tying goal, Luongo got the job done and played well for Canada. You cannot ignore success. Fact is Luongo has won more games in the playoffs, more series, backstopped Canada to gold, and has better career numbers. He's had his faults and that's why Price may eventually start if he falters, but just because you believe Price is better does not mean that Luongo is a terrible goaltender. He does have more experience And wins and you can't beat that with junior championships or the AHL.

 

[Uhmkay]

Playing in the playoffs is much bigger than the AHL playoffs or WJC. Other wise Pogge or Chris Bourque are better big game players than Luongo.

You can't talk about Luongo losing without ignoring Price's performance in the playoffs. You picked two games in the SCF where he gave up plenty of goals, but there were also two shutouts that series. I remember those playoffs and Luongo was the reason the Canucks made it that far. Say what you want about the Olympics about the game tying goal, Luongo got the job done and played well for Canada. You cannot ignore success. Fact is Luongo has won more games in the playoffs, more series, backstopped Canada to gold, and has better career numbers. He's had his faults and that's why Price may eventually start if he falters, but just because you believe Price is better does not mean that Luongo is a terrible goaltender. He does have more experience And wins and you can't beat that with junior championships or the AHL.

How could someone bring up a Calder Cup win and think that it's on par with Olympic Gold Medals, World Championship medals, and taking a team to Game 7 of the Stanley Cup finals when his team has only scored 8 goals in the entire series.

The biggest letdown in the Stanley Cup finals was not Luongo.... it was the Sedins. And they pretty much got out with hardly anyone saying a thing about their 2 point effort. It was brutal. There isn't a goalie in the world who has ever, or could ever, win a 7 game finals with his team only scoring 8 goals. It's never happened.... it will never happen.

 

[Addison Rae]

The sheer ignorance of this poster. Yeah Luongo the goalie who's 17-2 in senior tournament for Canada, the guys who's win 2 World Championships, 1 Olympic Gold Medal and a World Cup, the guy who's lead his team to game 7 of the finals is not "a big game goalie" while Price who's won a grand total of 1 playoff series is, keep reaching there bud.

 

[Uhmkay]

Price having yet another terrible game tonight against Washington.

That second goal was just terrible and right through his legs and probably the backbreaker.

Has a sub .900 save% once again tonight.

Yeah, no thanks...

 

[Addison Rae]

Because he hasn't? He didn't play well in 2010 behind a good team and he couldn't make a save when his team needed it most in 2011.

Yes, he played so bad that he had a .930 SP a GAA under 2 and won the Gold Medal, what an absolute joke. Oh, and in 2011 you mean the guy who lead his team to game 7 of the finals didn't play well? He won as many playoff rounds that year than Price and Smith have in their careers.

 

[KPower]

Luongo is the starter.

 

[CK17]

At this point, I'd rather have Smith as the backup with Lu starting.

 

[DyerMaker66*]

Yes, he played so bad that he had a .930 SP a GAA under 2 and won the Gold Medal, what an absolute joke. Oh, and in 2011 you mean the guy who lead his team to game 7 of the finals didn't play well? He won as many playoff rounds that year than Price and Smith have in their careers.

That gaa and sp were a result of the stacked team in front of him playing up to their capability. Please stop acting like he was some sort of saviour for Team Canada.

I really don't know how many more times I have to tell you this: Giving up 4+ goals wasn't leading his team anywhere.

You mean playing behind a better team than either of those two he ended up with better results? Go figure. It's almost like better teams do a better job of limiting the chances against their goalies, but nah clearly Montreal and Phoenix were better than Team Canada and Vancouver.

 

[DyerMaker66*]

How could someone bring up a Calder Cup win and think that it's on par with Olympic Gold Medals, World Championship medals, and taking a team to Game 7 of the Stanley Cup finals when his team has only scored 8 goals in the entire series.

The biggest letdown in the Stanley Cup finals was not Luongo.... it was the Sedins. And they pretty much got out with hardly anyone saying a thing about their 2 point effort. It was brutal. There isn't a goalie in the world who has ever, or could ever, win a 7 game finals with his team only scoring 8 goals. It's never happened.... it will never happen.

How could anyone think a goalie who gave up 4+ goals a game wasn't a letdown?

How could anyone disregard a goalie who has demonstrated the ability to excel in big games for a goalie who averaged 4+ gaa and a .850 and below sv% in 4 of the most important games of his career?

They would've if Luongo didn't crap the bed in game 6

 

[MyNameIsNobody*]

At this point, I'd rather have Smith as the backup with Lu starting.

Im almost certain that Price is hurt...same issue as last year and same issue as a couple of weeks ago, his groin

Im almost 100% sure he is hurt....even though the defense has been total CRAP the last 3 weeks, he shouldn't be playing this bad...

Who is the hottest Canadian goalie right now...and please don't mention any Maple leaf goalies....

??

 

[DyerMaker66*]

Playing in the playoffs is much bigger than the AHL playoffs or WJC. Other wise Pogge or Chris Bourque are better big game players than Luongo.

You can't talk about Luongo losing without ignoring Price's performance in the playoffs. You picked two games in the SCF where he gave up plenty of goals, but there were also two shutouts that series.

He gave up plenty of goals in 4 games: Exactly what it takes to lose a series. To say otherwise is disingenuous.

I remember those playoffs and Luongo was the reason the Canucks made it that far. Say what you want about the Olympics about the game tying goal, Luongo got the job done and played well for Canada. You cannot ignore success.

Brodeur has been the reason the Devils have won anything. He also got the job done for Canada. Brodeur should start, because "you cannot ignore success".

Fact is Luongo has won more games in the playoffs, more series, backstopped Canada to gold, and has better career numbers.

Many goalies have backstopped Canada to gold, that doesn't mean they should start in Sochi.

Luongo also didn't win a playoff game until he was 27 years old: Price is already ahead of him in that department.

He's had his faults and that's why Price may eventually start if he falters, but just because you believe Price is better does not mean that Luongo is a terrible goaltender.

I can live with that, though I really hope people stop referring to a guy who lost his team's starting position and only gained it back because he was immovable as a "top-5 goalie in the NHL".

He does have more experience And wins and you can't beat that with junior championships or the AHL.

How does one get experience and wins if they aren't given the opportunity to get experience and wins?

 

[DyerMaker66*]

Im almost certain that Price is hurt...same issue as last year and same issue as a couple of weeks ago, his groin

Im almost 100% sure he is hurt....even though the defense has been total CRAP the last 3 weeks, he shouldn't be playing this bad...

Who is the hottest Canadian goalie right now...and please don't mention any Maple leaf goalies....

??

Josh Harding.

 

[Sloth Slothersons*]

Let's just start Mike ****ing Smith to end this debate.

 

[Brock Boeser]

As of now I can't understand how someone can still lobby for anyone else to be the starter over Luongo. The fact that people believe Babcock won't give him the chance to defend his position is absurd imo.

 

[DyerMaker66*]

As of now I can't understand how someone can still lobby for anyone else to be the starter over Luongo. The fact that people believe Babcock won't give him the chance to defend his position is absurd imo.

That's what will happen, but it shouldn't happen.