GDT: 2013 Training Camp Thread (Camp opens weekend of 1/11; NHL games start 1/19)

[Quattro]

all this talk about who the banner night (day) opponent is is a little silly imo. Doesn't the other team usually spend the entire ceremony in their locker room anyway? Also, teams in all sports tend to come out flat on nights they have ceremonies like this. Be careful wishing for a hated rival as we are likely to get beat...

 

[willie]

Have you visited Mammoth Mountain? It's one of the best mountains in the world to ski or ride. It's about a six hour a drive and I head up about once a month during the season. We have slopes and beaches. I can think of more than a few reasons why someone would prefer Alberta to California, but natural beauty and things to do are certainly not on the list.

I know of Mammoth but Jasper and Banff border on otherworldly. From a slope standpoint, there are few places on Earth better (Col., B.C., Alps) and Cali doesn't quite measure. And from a natural beauty standpoint, it is as nice a region as you'll find on Earth. Check out this mini album for some sense of the region. http://imgur.com/a/yoqA3

I know California has a tremendous amount of awesome aspects, too. But that doesn't mean there aren't plenty of other places on Earth without their own merits and worthy of Cali. tourists.

I'll take Yosemite over any of those.

Regardless, the skiing here in Colorado trumps Banff, Jasper, and Mammoth any day.

Agreed that Colorado ( though still behind the Alps & B.C.) has better skiing/boarding but from strictly a scenic standpoint, I'd take Banff/Jasper. Haven't been to Yosemite yet but it indeed looks gorgeous.

 

[The Butcher]

I know of Mammoth but Jasper and Banff border on otherworldly. From a slope standpoint, there are few places on Earth better (Col., B.C., Alps) and Cali doesn't quite measure. And from a natural beauty standpoint, it is as nice a region as you'll find on Earth. Check out this mini album for some sense of the region. http://imgur.com/a/yoqA3

I know California has a tremendous amount of awesome aspects, too. But that doesn't mean there aren't plenty of other places on Earth without their own merits and worthy of Cali. tourists.



Agreed that Colorado ( though still behind the Alps & B.C.) has better skiing/boarding but from strictly a scenic standpoint, I'd take Banff/Jasper. Haven't been to Yosemite yet but it indeed looks gorgeous.

I've been trying not to hijack this thread for my own personal arguments but I just felt like I needed to defend the beauty of this state. Say what you want about the cities, the traffic, the people, the politics. I get it. But I think people often forget that most of California is absolute scenic bliss.

I'm a snowboard enthusiast and have been to most of the major resorts in the U.S. and while each geographic area is a little different there is simply no disputing the granite skyscrapers of Yosemite and the awe of the high Sierra's in general.

I'd really love to visit more of Canada in the near future. I've been to Whistler and that was a sight to behold as well but never quite as far north as Banff/Jasper. I'd LOVE to visit.

 

[Holden Caulfield]

Urgh, a one line joke turns into a huge Alberta vs California debate My bad.

Anyways, the news about a potential Mitchell injury is concerning though...Martinez/Voynov would not be such a big deal since Hickey could probably step in and do a fine job there...but a Mitchell will be hard to replace. Hickey is a LH shot, but I wouldn't feel particularly good about a Greene-Voynov or Hickey-Voynov second pairing...that'd be a hard hole to fill, perhaps even harder than Kopitar (or even Doughty as well) since the Kings have the offensive depth to handle that (or offensive defensemen), don't think they have the defensive defenseman depth to replace the stability and veteran presence of Mitchell...wait and see I guess.

 

[Muzzinga]

Doughty-Martinez
Voynov-Scuderi
Greene-whoever

would be the obvious combos imo

 

[damacles1156]

Doughty-Martinez
Voynov-Scuderi
Greene-whoever

would be the obvious combos imo

Drew and A-Mart play a similar game there is no reason to breakup Drew and Scuds.

Drew/Scuds
Greene/Slava
A-Mart/Hickey

 

[Vamos Rafa]

What happened to Mitchell?

 

[KopitarFAN]

What happened to Mitchell?

Knee injury while fishing, hunting or something.

However, it was said to have occurred a month ago. So we don't know for sure that he will miss any time.

 

[Kingsfan1]

What happened to Mitchell?

Minor Knee Injury I believe

 

[KingLB]

Drew and A-Mart play a similar game there is no reason to breakup Drew and Scuds.

Drew/Scuds
Greene/Slava
A-Mart/Hickey

You break up Drew/Scuds because VV needs to be protected.

 

[willie]

Urgh, a one line joke turns into a huge Alberta vs California debate My bad.

I hadn't realized it was one of the few other Canadian Kings' fan who initiated the gong show. How dare you forsake our native land by besmirching one of our lovely provinces? (well, the land itself is lovely, the people I could take or leave.. )

Regardless, I'd just as well debate the relative merits of California & Alberta's natural scenery. I'm still too pissed to even think about hockey anyway. The *******s running this league have pushed me to the point where I'm ready to say au revoir to the NHL itself. I'll watch the boys raise the banner and follow this particular group if they have another playoff run. But my enthusiasm as a whole towards the NHL has been eradicated. I'll still follow hockey & spend money on the CHL, IIHF events etc. but the NHL isn't going to get a penny from me for a long, long time.

 

[damacles1156]

You break up Drew/Scuds because VV needs to be protected.

If Slava needs to be protected in the top Four, he shouldn't be on the roster.

It's time to put on the big boy pants. Slava is a AHL veteran and has (Reg NHL)playoff EXP under his belt.

You need a Dominant paring to match top lines. That is Drew and Scuds.

Slava has almost 200 AHL games , 54 NHL +20 playoff games (all playing 20+ minutes a night.

He is on par with A-Mart(AHL wise), you don't hear anyone calling for A-Mart to be protected.

Slava will be fine.

If he is not, Than the Kings need to remove him from the lineup.

 

[KingLB]

If Slava needs to be protected in the top Four, he shouldn't be on the roster.

It's time to put on the big boy pants. Slava is a AHL veteran and has (Reg NHL)playoff EXP under his belt.

You need a Dominant paring to match top lines. That is Drew and Scuds.

Slava has almost 200 AHL games , 54 NHL +20 playoff games (all playing 20+ minutes a night.

That's on par with A-Mart(AHL wise), you don't hear anyone calling for A-Mart to be protected.

Slava will be fine.

If he is not, Than the Kings need to remove him from the lineup.

Whattt???

That makes no sense. Tons of players need to be protected. Hell Greene needs to be protected imo (Amart to). The 4th line gets protected, should all of them get sent back down?? Bottom line is many many players have limitations that is why teams do line matching. It is also why you often see teams break up their 2 best defensemen....sorry not every team is built with 6 Doughtys and 12 Kopitars.

 

[Vamos Rafa]

As someone who's been splitting time between LA and Perth, I could use some ****ing real winter weather right now. Would love to visit Calgary someday.

 

[damacles1156]

Whattt???

That makes no sense. Tons of players need to be protected. Hell Greene needs to be protected imo (Amart to). The 4th line gets protected, should all of them get sent back down?? Bottom line is many many players have limitations that is why teams do line matching. It is also why you often see teams break up their 2 best defensemen....sorry not every team is built with 6 Doughtys and 12 Kopitars.

So you're saying the Kings only have three D players that are able to handle their own ?

Greene had a career year last year, and it was not because he was protected. He is actually a good Defensive player, that has some bad moments.

But you have to take the good with the bad.

The fourth line is not protected, Sutter played that fourth line against anyone.

They simply have a roll to play, that roll is only 8 to 11 minutes a night.

No one is calling for A-Mart to be protected, he doesn't need to be ether.

What doesn't make sense is breaking up a paring that has chemistry and is dominant.

That is Drew and Scuds.

All because Slava isn't ready to shoulder some more responsibility ?

If that's the case, he need not be on the roster. Find someone else. Hickey would be more than happy to have those top four minutes.

Ultimately it's Sutter's call , and I don't think he is going to let anyone not put on Big boy pants.

Slava will be expected to get it done without Mitchell/Scuds. If Slava doesn't get it done, I am confidant the Kings will find someone who will.

 

[Holden Caulfield]

So you're saying the Kings only have three D players that are able to handle their own ?

Greene had a career year last year, and it was not because he was protected. He is actually a good Defensive player, that has some bad moments.

But you have to take the good with the bad.

The fourth line is not protected, Sutter played that fourth line against anyone.

They simply have a roll to play, that roll is only 8 to 11 minutes a night.

No one is calling for A-Mart to be protected, he doesn't need to be ether.

What doesn't make sense is breaking up a paring that has chemistry and is dominant.

That is Drew and Scuds.

All because Slava isn't ready to shoulder some more responsibility ?

If that's the case, he need not be on the roster. Find someone else. Hickey would be more than happy to have those top four minutes.

Ultimately it's Sutter's call , and I don't think he is going to let anyone not put on Big boy pants.

Slava will be expected to get it done without Mitchell/Scuds. If Slava doesn't get it done, I am confidant the Kings will find someone who will.

Actually Martinez and Greene were "protected" quite a bit last season...take a look at the Quality of Competition stats for the boys on the blueline last season (higher number means they faced tougher competition.

Quality of Competition
RK SEASON NAME TEAM +- QoC +- QoT Corsi Rel QoC Corsi QoC Corsi Rel QoT Corsi QoT
1 2011-2012 Season DREWDOUGHTY L.A 0.043 -0.024 0.986 0.090 -0.304 9.291
2 2011-2012 Season ROBSCUDERI L.A 0.026 0.018 0.910 0.190 0.707 9.775
3 2011-2012 Season WILLIEMITCHELL L.A 0.014 0.109 0.420 -0.008 1.401 10.233
4 2011-2012 Season SLAVAVOYNOV L.A -0.045 0.129 -0.051 -0.243 0.576 9.546
5 2011-2012 Season MATTGREENE L.A -0.087 -0.063 -0.494 -0.731 0.546 9.978
6 2011-2012 Season ALECMARTINEZ L.A -0.146 -0.065 -1.295 -1.944 -0.158 9.437

You'll notice how Doughty and Scuderi took the hardest minutes on the team, whereas Greene and Martinez were really sheltered last season. Even Voynov was moved away from tough competition compared to Mitchell quite a bit.

Greene is a fine 3rd pairing D, hard hitter, leader, but he is just average defensively, not a good first pass, simply cannot handle top 4 minutes against quality competition. Perfect for a 3rd pairing, but not a guy you want logging big minutes in your top 6. Martinez is ready for harder competition, IMO, but it needs to be in the right role with the right partner. Not convinced him and Voynov is the right situation. I have no problem moving Martinez up into Voynov's spot, but not Mitchell's.

Hickey's defensive game has come a long way, and it's possible down the road he can become a solid defensive guy on the LD position, but I would not rush him into it with with Martinez or Voynov right now.

It's also about balance in the pairings, and offensive guy and a defensive guy, as well as a LD and RD. Voynov is an offensive guy, it's best if he has a LD defensive partner. Don't particularly want a guy who is just average defensively moving to his off side as the anchor in a pairing. Greene can fill in part time there, but only a short while, IMO. If it's just a week or two, I am fine with Greene-Voynov on the 2nd pairing with Hickey-Martinez as less protected 3rd pairing than we had last year, particularly as Hickey is natural LD and Martinez has only played RD for us. Long term though, not an ideal solution, unless Hickey's defensive game blows us out of the water.

 

[CTKingsFan]

delete

 

[KingLB]

So you're saying the Kings only have three D players that are able to handle their own ?

Greene had a career year last year, and it was not because he was protected. He is actually a good Defensive player, that has some bad moments.

But you have to take the good with the bad.

The fourth line is not protected, Sutter played that fourth line against anyone.

They simply have a roll to play, that roll is only 8 to 11 minutes a night.

No one is calling for A-Mart to be protected, he doesn't need to be ether.

What doesn't make sense is breaking up a paring that has chemistry and is dominant.

That is Drew and Scuds.

All because Slava isn't ready to shoulder some more responsibility ?

If that's the case, he need not be on the roster. Find someone else. Hickey would be more than happy to have those top four minutes.

Ultimately it's Sutter's call , and I don't think he is going to let anyone not put on Big boy pants.

Slava will be expected to get it done without Mitchell/Scuds. If Slava doesn't get it done, I am confidant the Kings will find someone who will.

At the risk of sounding like an ass....do you watch the games?

How is the 4th line not protected...yea Sutter will put them out there vs any line....in the offensive zone. Rarely do they have defensive starts let alone vs the other teams top lines.

Also you may want to look at Greene's stats....there is a reason last season was his "career year"...it was his lowest ATOI since his rookie year. Greene is what he is. Nice physical player but when asked to log real mins his holes are magnified.

I also love that because VV isn't ready to not be protected that means Hickey should take his spot....You just assume Hickey is ready??

Bottom line (as I stated earlier) players that can handle good to massive mins are rare. There is a reason every team has a 3rd pairing, most of the time those guys are their because they aren't ready for the big time mins.

Edit: GD Holden stealing all my talkin points....

 

[Holden Caulfield]

As someone who's been splitting time between LA and Perth, I could use some ****ing real winter weather right now. Would love to visit Calgary someday.

As someone who lives year round in Winnipeg, I could use some ****ing beaches and warm weather right about. Can't WAIT until I make it out to LA (hopefully in the next two years) and Australia (hopefully the next 3 years)...

 

[Quattro]

well, that didn't take long for us to hit mid-season form

bring back the offseason

 

[Muzzinga]

Its not a case of protecting Voynov/Martinez/whoever, its a case of with Mitchell out, Scuderi and Doughty are the only guys capable of facing top competition so you need to split them up.

Keeping them together is all well and good vs a team like Vancouver. But teams with a great 2nd line, SJS, CHI etc, would rip apart a Voynov/Greene or Martinez/Hickey combo

 

[damacles1156]

Its not a case of protecting Voynov/Martinez/whoever, its a case of with Mitchell out, Scuderi and Doughty are the only guys capable of facing top competition so you need to split them up.

Keeping them together is all well and good vs a team like Vancouver. But teams with a great 2nd line, SJS, CHI etc, would rip apart a Voynov/Greene or Martinez/Hickey combo

My point is none of the players you are listing are rookies with the exception of Hickey.

At some point those guys have to be counted on to face tougher competition .

Would everyone agree ?

Scuds and Mitchell are not going to be around forever.

Now would be a good time to see what those guys can handle.

Or Dean Lombardi needs to bring up Bodnarchuck or find another stay home guy in the Market.

Muzzin is just not ready. Nether is Forbort.

I just don't believe that Greene,A-Mart,Slava are incapable of playing without Scuds/Mitchell in the top four.

I am just not buying that argument. At some point Scuds/Mitchell are no longer going to be Kings.

 

[goosh]

From Helene Elliott's article today...

Darryl Sutter:

Everybody's talking about the importance of a good start, but the one thing that I take out of the 48-game schedule that year was how you needed lots of players. I bet if you look back at Chicago that year we probably used 16 or 17 forwards.

Perhaps we'll see an increase in rotating our forwards this year?

 

[Ron*]

Anže Kopitar @AnžeKopitarhttps://twitter.com/AnzeKopitar
Back in LaLa land....

Really, Anže? My goodness...

 

[damacles1156]

Really, Anže? My goodness...

Now that is funny