Speculation: 2013 Offseason: UFAs, Trades, What's Next? | Part VII

[Icelevel]

it was going to be

Alfie or Macarthur
Ryan or Clarkson


Murray confirmed this

i never heard that. I heard BM say that after clarkson fell through they went after macarthur.
Yesterday cyril leeder said that they would have liked to have macarthur, ryan, and alfie on the team next year and made it sound like that was the plan. (of course he's no manager)

if anything i think it was more like alfie/ryan and clarkson/macarthur

i almost believe that the original plan was for clarkson, alfie, and maybe ryan. most likely it was just clarkson and alfie. of course he'd been working on the ryan deal for a couple weeks or more. sounds like he gave up on it and only revisited after alfie left.

i like how it worked out.

 

[Milan the God*]

i never heard that. I heard BM say that after clarkson fell through they went after macarthur.
Yesterday cyril leeder said that they would have liked to have macarthur, ryan, and alfie on the team next year and made it sound like that was the plan. (of course he's no manager)

if anything i think it was more like alfie/ryan and clarkson/macarthur

i almost believe that the original plan was for clarkson, alfie, and maybe ryan. most likely it was just clarkson and alfie. of course he'd been working on the ryan deal for a couple weeks or more. sounds like he gave up on it and only revisited after alfie left.

i like how it worked out.

Me too. We got younger, quicker, and we don't have to pay Clarkson's awful contract.

Imagine if we had signed Clarkson for 5.25 million cap hit for 7 years? The guy has never even gotten 50 points. Murray would be attacked with pitchforks

 

[GK]

Me too. We got younger, quicker, and we don't have to pay Clarkson's awful contract.

Imagine if we had signed Clarkson for 5.25 million cap hit for 7 years? The guy has never even gotten 50 points. Murray would be attacked with pitchforks

It works for Leaf fans because they're obsessed with getting big names (not even big names just well known names) on their team. No matter the cost.

Phaneuf is good example of a player who sucked when they got him, and still sucks, but everyone knew who he was so they loved it.

 

[Vesa Awesaka]

it was Clarkson or macArther. BM was kicking tires on ryan. Anaheim had told ryan he'd be traded this year or that he wasnt here for the long term and it looks like Anaheim had no serious trade partners left other then us.

 

[DefenseMinister]

it was Clarkson or macArther. BM was kicking tires on ryan. Anaheim had told ryan he'd be traded this year or that he wasnt here for the long term and it looks like Anaheim had no serious trade partners left other then us.

McArthur was signed very early in the day and the Sens were reportedly still in talks with Clarkson well after that time.

Much more likely that it was Clarkson or Ryan since they were going to be a similar commitment salary-wise. They seemed to have had the Ryan deal more or less finalized leading into UFA day but wanted to kick the tires on Clarkson because he sought them out the day before and because getting Clarkson would involve them not having to give up any assets.

I don't think they were overly serious on Clarkson but still wanted to pursue the option to a certain extent. They were never going to give him the 7 year term he was looking for so I don't think they thought it had a great chance of materializing. They probably knew they'd end up going back to Anaheim to get the Ryan deal done but wanted to see if they could convince Clarkson to come here for less money or term. When that was a no go, they pulled the trigger on the Ryan deal which was IMO always the better option anyways, even factoring in the loss of assets. Ryan is just a much better player than Clarkson.

 

[Vesa Awesaka]

McArthur was signed very early in the day and the Sens were reportedly still in talks with Clarkson well after that time.

Much more likely that it was Clarkson or Ryan since they were going to be a similar commitment salary-wise. They seemed to have had the Ryan deal more or less finalized leading into UFA day but wanted to kick the tires on Clarkson because he sought them out the day before and because getting Clarkson would involve them not having to give up any assets.

I don't think they were overly serious on Clarkson but still wanted to pursue the option to a certain extent. They were never going to give him the 7 year term he was looking for so I don't think they thought it had a great chance of materializing. They probably knew they'd end up going back to Anaheim to get the Ryan deal done but wanted to see if they could convince Clarkson to come here for less money or term. When that was a no go, they pulled the trigger on the Ryan deal which was IMO always the better option anyways, even factoring in the loss of assets. Ryan is just a much better player than Clarkson.

BM actually said it was MacArther or Clarkson i believe. I imagine if we would have signed Clarkson we would have traded MM and other pieces for Ryan.

 

[ErikKarlsson]

McArthur was signed very early in the day and the Sens were reportedly still in talks with Clarkson well after that time.

Much more likely that it was Clarkson or Ryan since they were going to be a similar commitment salary-wise. They seemed to have had the Ryan deal more or less finalized leading into UFA day but wanted to kick the tires on Clarkson because he sought them out the day before and because getting Clarkson would involve them not having to give up any assets.

I don't think they were overly serious on Clarkson but still wanted to pursue the option to a certain extent. They were never going to give him the 7 year term he was looking for so I don't think they thought it had a great chance of materializing. They probably knew they'd end up going back to Anaheim to get the Ryan deal done but wanted to see if they could convince Clarkson to come here for less money or term. When that was a no go, they pulled the trigger on the Ryan deal which was IMO always the better option anyways, even factoring in the loss of assets. Ryan is just a much better player than Clarkson.

Pretty sure Murray said Clarkson called to say Ottawa wasn't an option anymore at like 10am?

 

[DefenseMinister]

BM actually said it was MacArther or Clarkson i believe. I imagine if we would have signed Clarkson we would have traded MM and other pieces for Ryan.

Clarkson was never a serious candidate and they knew it. They were giving him the time of day because he expressed interest but they knew they weren't going to be able to meet his contract demands.

McArthur and Clarkson aren't in the same category when it came to salary or contract term. They aren't really comparable.

Also, there's no way the Ryan trade would have included Michalek. The Ducks were moving Ryan to save salary, not to take a player back who makes even more than Ryan does.

 

[Vesa Awesaka]

Love to see that quote because I'm pretty positive that he didn't say that.

And it also makes no sense because the Sens were still talking to Clarkson after they had signed McArthur earlier in the day. The two of them aren't in the same category when it came to salary or contract term. They aren't really comparable.

He might of said it at the presser i believe someone asked him a question about it .

Ok i just watched some of the presser and you might be right . He originally wanted ryan but the deal for him was looking iffy so he went to sign clarkson. At 10am or early morning, he was informed ottawa was out of the running on clarkson.
Up until the night he talked with alfie, he was under the impression alfy was going to be signed and it was only a matter of getting a second number from JP. His targets were clarkson and Alfie. MacArthur only came up the morning of the beginning of FA. At 10 or 9:30 he was told Clarkson wasnt coming. Up until then he had the ryan deal sitting on the side but hadnt offered the 1st pick. He also said after losing alfie he thought bob murray understood it'd be impossible to grab another roster player from then sens.
He would have made the deal for ryan even if alfie was still on the team. It had to be the right deal though.

 

[HavlatMach9]

He might of said it at the presser i believe someone asked him a question about it .

I remember BM saying plan A was Alfie + Clarkson.

 

[Milan the God*]

It works for Leaf fans because they're obsessed with getting big names (not even big names just well known names) on their team. No matter the cost.

Phaneuf is good example of a player who sucked when they got him, and still sucks, but everyone knew who he was so they loved it.

Honestly, though, I don't get the appeal for Clarkson. He hits - that's great. He fights, but is not some huge heavyweight like Lucic and doesn't really intimidate you. He'll probably get 20-25 goals, and 40 points.

Despite all this, he has a long term deal at $5.25M/year. I think the Leafs will regret the contract by the end of the year.

 

[DefenseMinister]

Here's where it's stated explicitly that the Ryan deal was a long time in the making and that it was fast tracked once the Sens knew they weren't going to get Clarkson:

http://www.senatorsextra.com/main/senators-trade-for-bobby-ryan

Senators general manager Bryan Murray has been discussing a possible Ryan trade with Anaheim general manager Bob Murray for awhile – the original proposal called for two players off the existing Senators roster and a second round pick – but it had been on the backburner. When the Senators failed in their quest to sign David Clarkson as an unrestricted free agent (Clarkson ended up in Toronto), the Senators and Ducks re-worked the deal.

No mention of McArthur at all since his signing didn't impact any of this. The McArthur signing was made possible when the Sens knew that Alfie wasn't coming back. They were trying to get McArthur along with re-signing Alfie but that would only have been possible if Alfie signed for much less than market value, which he obviously balked at.

 

[Vesa Awesaka]

Here's where it's stated explicitly that the Ryan deal was a long time in the making and that it was fast tracked once the Sens knew they weren't going to get Clarkson:

http://www.senatorsextra.com/main/senators-trade-for-bobby-ryan



No mention of McArthur at all since his signing didn't impact any of this. The McArthur signing was made possible when the Sens knew that Alfie wasn't coming back. They were trying to get McArthur along with re-signing Alfie but that would only have been possible if Alfie signed for much less than market value, which he obviously balked at.

I just watched the whole presser you can watch it to. MacArthur only came up the morning of FA. On the morning of FA at 10 or 9:30 he was informed Clarkson would not be signing with the sens. The deal for Alfie had not been finalized. It was after Anaheim heard that alfie would not be resigning and BM cam back with the 1st pick that the deal was done .

 

[DefenseMinister]

I just watched the whole presser you can watch it to. MacArthur only came up the morning of FA. On the morning of FA at 10 or 9:30 he was informed Clarkson would not be signing with the sens.

McArthur may only have specifically came up in the morning (although that's never explicitly stated) because that's when they knew that Alfie wasn't coming back and they had the money for the secondary signing (something they were probably contemplating doing previously but only if they could get Alfie signed for a cheap deal).

It was going to be Clarkson or Ryan as their big add. They counted on also having Alfie (and maybe even more if they could afford it) alongside whichever of their big targets they brought in.

Clarkson bowed out (and was probably never a serious contender based on his demands) so they went back to the Ducks deal and changed some pieces in order to get it done.

 

[Vesa Awesaka]

McArthur may only have specifically came up in the morning (although that's never explicitly stated) because that's when they knew that Alfie wasn't coming back and they had the money for the secondary signing (something they were probably contemplating doing previously but only if they could get Alfie signed for a cheap deal).

It was going to be Clarkson or Ryan as their big add. They counted on also having Alfie (and maybe even more if they could afford it) alongside whichever of their big targets they brought in.

Clarkson bowed out (and was probably never a serious contender based on his demands) so they went back to the Ducks deal and changed some pieces in order to get it done.

He does pretty much explicitly say MacArthur only came up in the morning. Watch the presser just do it .
-Weeks before a deal that had been discussed since last summer, was being negotiated with Anaheim unsuccessfully
-Late july 4th Alfie informs BM he will not be returning to ottawa ( up until the deal leaked no one other then a few people know alfy will be leaving ottawa)
-930 or 10:00 BM is informed that Clarkson will not be signing with ottawa
-Early morning macarthur's name comes up
-MacArthur to sign with ottawa sens fans are livid because we think this is all we get as afredson's replacement

Anaheim wanted 2-3 roster player for ryan. I imagine if everything would have fell into place and we would have signed Clarkson and Alfie we would have traded MM and silf for Ryan.
With Alfie gone the demands for roster players for ryan were more lenient and they were sold of noeson and a 1st.
Our top 6.
Ryan-Spezza-Clarkson
Conacher(hoffman) idk -Turris-Alfie
Here what we know for certain we offered a deal for ryan and contract to Clarkson and alfie
We do not know nor have any reason to believe that MacArthur was ever in BM's plan up until the morning of FA
BM also said that if he knew alfie was going to move he may have made a pitch at other FA's before FA day.

 

[Beville]

I'd change teams if we signed Clarkson...

 

[BK201]

I'd change teams if we signed Clarkson...

cheer for Toronto?

 

[FolignoQuantumLeap]

I'd change teams if we signed Clarkson...

We seriously dodged a bullet there. Anyone wanna start a pool on when he gets bought out?

 

[Super Cake]

We should be happy that we did not sign clarkson. Did you take a lot at that contract he signed. I did this when i saw it:

Why are we even complaining about this? We signed macarthur on a reasonable deal for 2 years. We got bobby ryan who can bring the offense we desperately needed. So who honestly cares about clarkson and his overpaid contract?

 

[Vesa Awesaka]

Clarkson was never a serious candidate and they knew it. They were giving him the time of day because he expressed interest but they knew they weren't going to be able to meet his contract demands.

McArthur and Clarkson aren't in the same category when it came to salary or contract term. They aren't really comparable.

Also, there's no way the Ryan trade would have included Michalek. The Ducks were moving Ryan to save salary, not to take a player back who makes even more than Ryan does.

MM makes about a mil less in terms of cap hit less then ryan. Also who's cheaper to keep in the long run MM or Ryan.

 

[Vesa Awesaka]

We should be happy that we did not sign clarkson. Did you take a lot at that contract he signed. I did this when i saw it:

Why are we even complaining about this? We signed macarthur on a reasonable deal for 2 years. We got bobby ryan who can bring the offense we desperately needed. So who honestly cares about clarkson and his overpaid contract?

Were not complain about Clarkson i'm pretty sure we all hate his deal.

 

[DefenseMinister]

MM makes about a mil in terms of cap hit less then ryan

Cap hits are irrelevant when you're talking about budget (especially for a team that is operating nowhere near the cap).

Michalek is set to make $6 million next year, that's the number that's important.

All of the Ducks conversations regarding Ryan had them wanting 2 of Cowen, Silf or Zibanejad. They didn't want to touch Michalek because they wanted younger, cheaper players.

There was no way in hell the Sens would have signed Clarkson and then also acquired Ryan. It even says this specifically in the article I quoted above. It's why the Ryan trade only took place after Clarkson had officially signed with the Leafs.

McArthur was signed because they had a surplus of money after they found out Alfie wasn't coming back.

They were always going to get a big fish as well, and the only question is whether it would be Ryan or Clarkson. I suspect they knew that they didn't have much of a shot with Clarkson but they would have still rather investigated bringing in a UFA as opposed to giving up assets in a trade.

 

[Vesa Awesaka]

Cap hits are irrelevant when you're talking about budget (especially for a team that is operating nowhere near the cap).

Michalek is set to make $6 million next year, that's the number that's important.

All of the Ducks conversations regarding Ryan had them wanting 2 of Cowen, Silf or Zibanejad. They didn't want to touch Michalek because they wanted younger, cheaper players.

There was no way in hell the Sens would have signed Clarkson and then also acquired Ryan. It even says this specifically in the article I quoted above. It's why the Ryan trade only took place after Clarkson had officially signed with the Leafs.

McArthur was signed because they had a surplus of money after they found out Alfie wasn't coming back.

They were always going to get a big fish as well, and the only question is whether it would be Ryan or Clarkson. I suspect they knew that they didn't have much of a shot with Clarkson but they would have still rather investigated bringing in a UFA as opposed to giving up assets in a trade.

I'm saying what BM would have wanted to do . Understand that. We did offer a deal for Ryan before FA happened. All we know is that we offered a second round pick Silf and something else. If that something else is Zbad or cowen the deal is done. I bet that something else was MM. Then if everything had gone as BM planed we would have signed Clarkson traded mm for Ryan and resigned alfie. This is what i believe BM wanted to happen.

Here what happened
Alfie left'
Clarkson told us he wasnt signing
We agreed to a deal with MacArther
Ryan trade happened

What we know for sure is that we didnt start to negotiate with MacArthur till after we knew that Clarkson was not coming.

I'd like to add why not just watch the presser yourself instead of reading into someone else's opinion about it.

 

[DefenseMinister]

I'm saying what BM would have wanted to do . Understand that. We did offer a deal for Ryan before FA happened. All we know is that we offered a second round pick Silf and something else. If that something else is Zbad or cowen the deal is done.

No, we know that what the Ducks wanted was 2 of Zibanejad, Silfverberg and Cowen along with a 2nd round pick. That deal was stalled because the Sens weren't willing to meet that price.

If Michalek was ever mentioned it would have been a complete non-starter from the Ducks standpoint so it's silly to even mention it (especially since it's solely conjecture on your part).

Once Murray decided that he was going to pull the trigger on the Ryan deal, he "reworked" the price by insisting that the Ducks could only have 1 of the young roster players they were asking for (Silfverberg) but the Sens would give them one of their better prospects who was around a year away (Noesen) and they would upgrade the 2nd rounder to a 1st. The Ducks eventually agreed on that price.

Michalek has never been mentioned and would never make sense within the context of a negotiation for Ryan. He's a guy set to make $6M, one year away from UFA and coming off a season where his chronic knee issues caused him to miss a major chunk of the season. In terms of a trade asset, he would be toxic.

 

[Vesa Awesaka]

No, we know that what the Ducks wanted was 2 of Zibanejad, Silfverberg and Cowen along with a 2nd round pick. That deal was stalled because the Sens weren't willing to meet that price.

If Michalek was ever mentioned it would have been a complete non-starter from the Ducks standpoint so it's silly to even mention it (especially since it's solely conjecture on your part).

Once Murray decided that he was going to pull the trigger on the Ryan deal, he "reworked" the price by insisting that the Ducks could only have 1 of the young roster players they were asking for (Silfverberg) but the Sens would give them one of their better prospects who was around a year away (Noesen) and they would upgrade the 2nd rounder to a 1st. The Ducks eventually agreed on that price.

Michalek has never been mentioned and would never make sense within the context of a negotiation for Ryan. He's a guy set to make $6M, one year away from UFA and coming off a season where his chronic knee issues caused him to miss a major chunk of the season. In terms of a trade asset, he would be toxic.

So you think the ducks went to every team saying we want these players for Ryan or do you think teams came to them with offers ? We know they wanted silf a 2nd and cowen or zibby we also know we didnt offer that because obviously a deal wasnt done. From a stand point of acquiring everyone who BM wanted he would have offered MM fair to say ? Of course we know that the ducks didnt agree to whatever we offered. You're assuming we never offer MM period just as im assuming we would if BM truely wanted all the players on his wish list. lol You seem to think the ducks made a demand well we never made an intial offer. As for MM i agree he's a tarnished asset but i dont really see why that'd stop us from offering him. He is a 30 goal scorer that no doubt after his contract expires be ten time easier to control then ryan's contract.

Just so we make this 100 percent clear . Can we agree that BM wanted Clarkson,Ryan and Alfie . Now can we agree that he wanted them ideally on the same team. Now can we agree that to do this we would of had to trade MM.