McManked
Ooh to be a Gooner
This. If it's January 1st 2015 and Murray doesn't think he can re-sign him, then he will most likely be traded again.
Speculation: 2013 Offseason: UFAs, Trades, What's Next? | Part VII
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Qward
Because! That's why!
McManked
Ooh to be a Gooner
Stuzchuk
Registered User
FolignoQuantumLeap
Don't Hold The Door
I don't think Corvo's ice time with a terrible Carolina team really tells us anything about where Wiercioch will be next season. I certainly recognize the concern with the perceived hole on defense but its not as dire as on paper if. First off, we'll have Karlsson and Methot chewing up 26+ minutes a game. That immediately takes pressure off any other D pairings. Despite popular perception, Chris Phillips is still capable as a top 4 defender. Cowen may well be ready for a #3 role. We'll find out soon enough. At worst, I think he's a #4. Whenever Karlsson and Methot aren't on the ice, Phillips or Cowen will be, and that TO ME seems like a good situation.
Gryba played 20+ minutes as a rookie against quality competition. He can be put in that role again and will have experience to draw on. Corvo's been a top 4 guy in the past, because of his puck moving skills which is a great positive because he'll be playing with one of the more defensively inclined LDs in Philly or Cowen when he does play.
With Wiercioch, I could see him in a similar role this season. His minutes aren't all that important but I see him as the best option to play opposite of Karlsson on the 1st PP unit and there lies his value to the team as a PP specialist and secondary puck mover.
PK looks good with Methot, Cowen, Gryba, Phillips and Karlsson. 5 on 5 will be good as always. PP is the question mark and even then, we can probably convert at a decent rate with just Karlsson and whomever else.
I say let the kids play and reassess 2-3 months into the season. We have strengths in other areas to carry the team if it becomes a problem.
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Murray could have made that deal at any time over the past year. Alfredsson's departure sealed it.
So no...
WORLDSTARHIPHOP
Sens <<<<<<<<<< NHL
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He was trying to not let go of Zibanejad or Cowen.
Alfie's departure made Anaheim more lenient, and took Silf + 1st instead of Zib/Cowen + 2nd
BonHoonLayneCornell
Registered User
In his interview on the team 1200 today, Cyril Leeder sure made it sound like the plan was to have all three of Ryan, Alfie & MacCarthur.
not that im agreeing either way but why would alfie's departure make the ducks more lenient?
WORLDSTARHIPHOP
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IIRC Murray said Duck Murray wanted 2 roster players, but Anaheim realized there's no way we're parting with 2 roster players once we lost Alfredsson, so they decided to settle in the middle with 1 roster player and a 1st pick instead.
I guess i should revise what i said
it was going to be
Alfie vs Macarthur
or
Ryan vs Clarkson + Silfverberg
Which is probably why Murray tried to get Clarkson first as to not lose Silfverberg
it was going to be
Alfie vs Macarthur
or
Ryan vs Clarkson + Silfverberg
Which is probably why Murray tried to get Clarkson first as to not lose Silfverberg
Cherith Cutestory
Registered User
Is it that easy? Was Bob Murray banging on Bryan Murray's door begging him to make the trade? Could Bryan Murray really have 'had' Ryan at any time?
I can't source this (but then neither can you with your statement) but I vaguely remember hearing from Ducks fans that Anaheim did not want to trade Ryan until they had Perry and Getzlaf locked up to extensions. By the time that happened, Anaheim was in a good position to make the playoffs so it would have made zero sense for them to trade Ryan, especially considering the Silf and Noeson would have been nowhere near the help Anaheim would have wanted back for their playoff push.
So no...he couldn't have made the trade at any time.
StefanW
Registered User
True. But Murray could have made the trade at any time in the week leading up to UFA Day, or in the week afterwards. The timing was such that Murray knew Alfie was out the door the evening before, and the trade was finalized the next afternoon. To add to my personal suspicions, the contract room freed up by Alfie leaving covers the amount that Ryan is paid. So I am in the camp that believes if Alfie had stayed the Ryan trade would not have been made. At least not before about 5 million in salary was dumped, because I believe it was all about having room in the internal budget to finalize negotiations with the Ducks.
aragorn
Do The Right Thing
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What about bringing Clarkson to town? They seemed set on wanting to sign him to some lucrative contract but he chose Toronto because he was a stinking Wendal Clarke Leaf fan his whole life. That was at a time when Alfie was still here & it looked like he was going to re-sign with Ottawa.
That would have been something, if BM would have gotten Clarkson, Alfie re-signed & made the trade for Ryan. As it stands we got one out of three unfortunately.
StefanW
Registered User
I didn't mention it because it means absolutely nothing. Edmonton had the best offer, and TO took him with the second best offer. We weren't even in the running.
murray was never goiing to sign Clarkson, Macarthur/Alfie AND trade for Ryan.
It was one or the other just go listen to his interviews...Once they missed out on Clarkson they went back to Ryan. Macarthur they signed to help the top six with Alfie leaving
I think best case they would have went for Clarkson and Ryan without signing Macarthur and Alfie but it is hard to tell now if the money was there for that
Micklebot
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ReginKarlssonLehner
Let's Win It All
Murray wanted Ryan and Alfredsson.
When he found out Alfredsson wasn't coming he got McArthur but Murray said in his presser had he known a bit earlier he would have gone hard after the player he wanted.
He wanted Clarkson and Ryan. Let me tell you though, Ryan and McArthur is literally almost the same thing, lol. Plus, who knows if the other guy was Clarkson or someone else.
Re-watch the presser.
When he found out Alfredsson wasn't coming he got McArthur but Murray said in his presser had he known a bit earlier he would have gone hard after the player he wanted.
He wanted Clarkson and Ryan. Let me tell you though, Ryan and McArthur is literally almost the same thing, lol. Plus, who knows if the other guy was Clarkson or someone else.
Re-watch the presser.
BonHoonLayneCornell
Registered User
Well it worked out well for us either way. I'd rather have Ryan than Clarkson even considering we gave up so much to get him.
ErikKarlsson
The Best (per IOC)
Karl Cowensson
I has cheezburger
From the sounds of it Ryan would have happend eventually. I think what sealed it so quickly after the announcement that Alfie was leaving was that the Ducks wanted 2 roster players and a pick/top prospect. Losing Alfie basically made that impossible, so they settled for 1 roster player, the pick and a top prospect. I still think that's a steal, Silf, Noesen and a mid to late pick are easily replaceable, a 30 goal scorer isn't. Only way this turns out bad is if the pick becomes a Hossa type late first rounder, and there aren't a lot of those anymore the way things are scouted.
StefanW
Registered User
Respectfully disagree with the "settling" bit. Teams don't settle for getting less in a trade just because another team has a UFA leave. If the Ducks did not like the offer from the Sens as is there are plenty of other teams out there.
I definitely agree about the value being there for the Sens. We'll know more in 5 years or so, but right now the trade looks even up. If Silf or the other prospects turn into great players then the Ducks may have won the trade. If they don't and Ryan contributes to his ability then the Sens won it. Right now, which is the important part, both teams met organizational needs so the trade is awesome all the way around.
I think that they certainly wanted to know what Alfie's salary was going to come in at before bringing Ryan in but to me, it sounded as if the Ryan trade was a long time in the making and it just needed to be more or less finalized before Alfie dropped the bombshell that he wasn't coming back.
Murray told Alfie on the phone the night before that he believed they were going to be able to bring Ryan in (Alfie had already made up his mind at that point and he wasn't going to be persuaded). There's no reason not to believe Murray on that assertion since Alfie could easily refute that story if it wasn't true.
The issue was them trying to bring in another player like McArthur as well. This is probably why they tried to see if Alfie could sign for a low number up front because that would have given them the flexibility to bring in another mid-tier UFA along with Ryan. When Alfie balked at this, they eventually I assume decided that the priority would be to bring Alfie back at whatever he wanted and just forgo the extra acquisition because having Alfie back in the fold was more important. But they didn't count on their first offer pissing Alfie off to the degree it did and that he had already made up his mind to leave by that point and when they finally were able to get in touch with him, the ship had sailed.
Once they knew he was leaving, getting McArthur wasn't an issue. The Ryan trade was going to be made regardless. Perhaps Alfie leaving made Murray more willing to include the final necessary piece (like bumping up the pick to a 1st rounder) but I don't think he would tell Alfie the day before that they were on the verge of getting it done if that wasn't the case.
So there would have been a scenario where they could have had Alfie, McArthur and Ryan but it most likely would only be possible if Alfie took less money which is what they were trying to accomplish with their initial negotiations. I think they probably had the contingency to pay Alfie more if that was where the negotiations needed to go and if that happened, they probably wouldn't have been able to grab McArthur. The Ryan deal was going to happen regardless, the only thing that possibly changed slightly was the price and the urgency to get the deal done on that day in order to counteract Alfie leaving.
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