Speculation: 2013 Leafs Trades, Proposals, and Free Agent Talk XXI

[mydnyte]

not into Letang ...we have enough offensive d-men who cant play d on the team already

 

[Leafsforlife98]

What really gets me to shake my head is - the penguins offered 8yr at 56M for
average cap hit of 7M

but refuse a counter offer of 8yr at 60M for average cap ht of 7.5M

Is 500K per year worth it to lose their best dman

something rotten there

It is not just the 500k a year, it is the NO TRADE/NO MOVEMENT clause that is the real sticking point. I personally just think Letang wants out and is pricing himself off the Penguins just to move to another team

 

[Drew311]

What really gets me to shake my head is - the penguins offered 8yr at 56M for
average cap hit of 7M

but refuse a counter offer of 8yr at 60M for average cap ht of 7.5M

Is 500K per year worth it to lose their best dman

something rotten there

The problem they have is Letang isn't willing to take a bit of a discount for the betterment of the team. Crosby could be making 10 million if he wanted to, Kunitz could have got 5 - 5.5 on the open market, Neal also took a discount. This is what you have to do collectively to keep a core together. If a player wants to be selfish and hit the market for an extra 5 million then it shows he doesn't give a rats ass about playing for a successful team, it's all about his bank account, which is quite troubling IMO.

 

[Felstead]

No one. That is why you have the extension in writing before the trade is finalized. I wonder if this could end up being the first sign and trade? That's the only way he gets the money he wants that Pittsburgh can't afford but still gets the eight years.

Its kinda looking that way to me aswell Smif, and yet again it still pisses me off knowing that Pitts will be the ones laughing regardless at the end of all this.

 

[dubplatepressure]

I really don't think Colborne has any trade value.

I can tell you that he does, but not as much as a typical 1st rounder who's ready to take the next step will be. Joe has always been projected as having a long development curve, and to fail to acknowledge that would be a fail IMO. Here's a quote from a scouting report before he was drafted:

It is true that he must add more of a mean streak for his game though, like his hands, he's pretty soft when it comes down to the gritty play, which is what is hurting his draft value. He can still skate well for his size and has great hands that contribute to an amazing setup ability. He will likely go very much higher then he is listed or could go lower based on GMs who question his work ethic. Too many GMs are willing to gamble though, watch him go mid first round and don't be surprised, he is elite all things being perfect in his development. Will play in Denver next year in the NCAA, some comparisons to Wheeler, don't know if that's good or bad, so he's a long-term development project.

Long term project. What's promising is that he didn't look out of place in his brief stint at the end of the season/playoffs with us. To other teams, he surely wouldn't return us a 1st rounder this year, but to a team in need of depth down the middle I could see the value being a 2nd round pick.

 

[dubplatepressure]

Its kinda looking that way to me aswell Smif, and yet again it still pisses me off knowing that Pitts will be the ones laughing regardless at the end of all this.

Meh not really. They won't get full value for him being he's in the final year of his contract. They'll take a hit on their blue line, which becomes significantly worse without him. I doubt they'll be 'laughing' per say, but they should have a solid return for him, albeit they're not likely to ever replace Letang.

 

[LEAFSIN4]

The problem they have is Letang isn't willing to take a bit of a discount for the betterment of the team. Crosby could be making 10 million if he wanted to, Kunitz could have got 5 - 5.5 on the open market, Neal also took a discount. This is what you have to do collectively to keep a core together. If a player wants to be selfish and hit the market for an extra 5 million then it shows he doesn't give a rats ass about playing for a successful team, it's all about his bank account, which is quite troubling IMO.

This is all speculation, you have no idea what you're talking about.

There can be 100 other reasons why he doesn't want to re-sign, or why he wants a bigger paycheck. NMC, problems with the coaching, etc... you never know what happens behind the scenes and sometimes its more than just about money

 

[Smif]

I can tell you that he does, but not as much as a typical 1st rounder who's ready to take the next step will be. Joe has always been projected as having a long development curve, and to fail to acknowledge that would be a fail IMO. Here's a quote from a scouting report before he was drafted:



Long term project. What's promising is that he didn't look out of place in his brief stint at the end of the season/playoffs with us. To other teams, he surely wouldn't return us a 1st rounder this year, but to a team in need of depth down the middle I could see the value being a 2nd round pick.

I meant to say "I don't think he has much trade value" rather than none. But if you think he's worth a 2nd than that package still doesn't get you anywhere near Letang IMO. Liles (almost a salary dump), 21st pick, and a 2nd is not gonna do it.

 

[dubplatepressure]

I meant to say "I don't think he has much trade value" rather than none. But if you think he's worth a 2nd than that package still doesn't get you anywhere near Letang IMO. Liles (almost a salary dump), 21st pick, and a 2nd is not gonna do it.

What package? For the record, I don't think we should be trading for Letang at all, unless we can retain Gardiner, Reilly and our 21st overall. The caveat being that we acquire another 1st rounder this year, which makes our 21st overall more expendable.

While Letang is fantastic, we aren't in a position that a team like LA was in where the had excess talent and were willing to deal it to bring in star players. We have decent blueline prospect depth now, but lack true blue chip forward prospects, and the loss of that 21st overall pick combined with Reilly or Gardiner decimates our prospect depth relative to other teams. As is the case with acquiring a front-line center, we need to do so using pieces we can afford (at least more so) to give - Franson, Gunnarson, Kulemin, possibly JVR, Grabo, Colborne, Blacker, etc.

 

[Cool Hand Luke]

Off-Season if every rumour comes true...

Step 1:

Trade Dion Phaneuf to Edmonton for 7th overall + 2014 1st round pick + 37th overall + Rights to Ryan Jones.

Step 2:

Trade Rights to Gunnarsson + Kulemin + Conditional 1st 2014 (if Letang re-signs) for Letang.

Step 3:

Trade Komisarek + prospect to Isles for Dipietro + 15th overall + Reinhart. Buy out Dipietro (amnesty).

Step 4:

Trade 7th overall + 37th overall to Carolina for 5th overall.

Step 5:

Trade 15th overall + Grabo to Dallas for 10th overall.

If draft goes like this:
Colorado - MacKinnon
Florida - Drouin
Tampa - Jones
Nashville - Barkov
Toronto - Nichushkin
Calgary - Lindholm
Carolina - Nurse
Buffalo - Ristolanien
New Jersey - Monahan
Toronto - Horvat

21st Toronto - Fucale

Sign: Vinny, Jones, Clarkson, Scuderi

My Custom Lineup
FORWARDS
James Van Riemsdyk ($4.250m) / Vincent Lecavalier ($5.000m) / Phil Kessel ($5.400m)
Joffrey Lupul ($5.250m)/ Nazem Kadri ($3.500m) / David Clarkson ($4.500m)
Tyler Biggs ($1.107m) / Bo Horvat ($1.200m) / Valeri Nichushkin ($2.000m)
Colton Orr ($0.925m) / Jay McClement ($1.500m) / Ryan Jones ($2.000m)
David Broll ($0.591m) /
Jamie Devane ($0.701m) /
DEFENSEMEN
Rob Scuderi ($4.020m) / Kris Letang ($3.500m)
Jake Gardiner ($1.117m) / Cody Franson ($3.500m)
Morgan Rielly ($1.744m) / Griffin Reinhart ($3.244m)
Mark Fraser ($1.000m) /
GOALTENDERS
James Reimer ($1.800m)
Jonathan Bernier ($2.250m)
OTHER
Buyout: Darcy Tucker ($1.000m)
Buyout: Colby Armstrong ($1.000m)
Buried: Mike Komisarek ($3.575m)
Buyout: John-Michael Liles ($0.000m)
RETAINED SALARY TRANSACTIONS (0.778% of upper limit)
Matt Frattin ($0.437m—0.5%) Ben Scrivens ($0.062m—0.1%)
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled with the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $64,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $66,173,611; BONUSES: $3,832,500
CAP SPACE (23-man roster): $1,958,889

 

[dubplatepressure]

Off-Season if every rumour comes true...

Love it... seriously. Doubt Reinhart will play next year, and really doubt any of those trades will happen, but it's a nice thought. Vinny will likely get north of $6M, but the term will play the biggest part in his landing spot.


As a side note, I think many teams will be mighty disappointed by Nichushkin if they draft him inside the top-7.... from what I've read there are enough red flags to be very skeptical.

 

[Rockinz]

It's still a downgrade IMO. We don't need Letang, we finished top-10 in scoring last year and have Reilly and Gardiner in the pipe to fill the OFD role. Gardiner hits 40 pts next year and we're really only leaving 15-20 pts on the table between him and Letang, and one could argue that many of those points can be attributed to the 'Crosby/Malkin' factor.

So really, IMO we're much better off staying-course and continuing to 'hit moving targets' as Nonis put it in chasing down a #1C and a more affordable defensive pairing for Dion.

As a side note, the fawning over RNH and his ability over Kadri is incredible on the main board. You'd be hard pressed to meet a less impartial fanbase; a perfect example of this is Richard Cloutier, HB Edmonton blogger (Gagner for Gardiner + Kulemin).

I think we NEED a #1 D whether it's Dion or a guy like Letang... Letang's mobility IMO fits out team speed better but he is not as defensively sound as Dion... IMO it's a wash.

As for Oil fans... They are overvaluing their players because they drafted them so high and had to watch horrible hockey for the HOPE of stud players in the draft... Funny how their best player Eberle was a 20's pick

I think RNH ceiling is comparable to Tavares and Kadri's ceiling is comparable to Spezza... BUT as of today Kadri is on par with RNH.

 

[dubplatepressure]

I think we NEED a #1 D whether it's Dion or a guy like Letang... Letang's mobility IMO fits out team speed better but he is not as defensively sound as Dion... IMO it's a wash.

As for Oil fans... They are overvaluing their players because they drafted them so high and had to watch horrible hockey for the HOPE of stud players in the draft... Funny how their best player Eberle was a 20's pick

I think RNH ceiling is comparable to Tavares and Kadri's ceiling is comparable to Spezza... BUT as of today Kadri is on par with RNH.

Short term it may be a wash I suppose, but swapping Letang and Dion makes one of Gardiner or Reilly redundant, which isn't good.

RNH's game is nowhere close to Tavares... they play completely different games IMO. Tavares is MUCH stronger and more solid on his skates whereas RNH plays a more fragile game. I guess you'd expect that from a guy who weights 30 lbs less. Tavares's game is so much more complete IMO, but RNH is very, very good with the puck.

Not really liking Kadri/Spezza comparable either... Spezza was much more dominant through the OHL, is larger, and likely faster than Kadri, although Kadri plays with more of an edge and is far more likely to be a dangler than a playmaker that Spezza is.

 

[Badger Mayhew*]

not into Letang ...we have enough offensive d-men who cant play d on the team already

Letang can play better defense than anyone on our team. Better defense than Duncan Keith too, who was the #1 defenseman on the team who just won a cup

 

[DrizzyTO]

EDM fans want Phaneuf for a second and MPS.

 

[Rockinz]

Short term it may be a wash I suppose, but swapping Letang and Dion makes one of Gardiner or Reilly redundant, which isn't good.

RNH's game is nowhere close to Tavares... they play completely different games IMO. Tavares is MUCH stronger and more solid on his skates whereas RNH plays a more fragile game. I guess you'd expect that from a guy who weights 30 lbs less. Tavares's game is so much more complete IMO, but RNH is very, very good with the puck.

Not really liking Kadri/Spezza comparable either... Spezza was much more dominant through the OHL, is larger, and likely faster than Kadri, although Kadri plays with more of an edge and is far more likely to be a dangler than a playmaker that Spezza is.

Wasn't comparing players games... I was comparing ceilings of dominance in the league.

The NHL is all about speed on the back end the only issue i would have having Rielly, Gards and Letang are that they are all LHS. Wish 1 was a RHS...

 

[Rockinz]

EDM fans want Phaneuf for a second and MPS.

wow they are taking crazy pills over there!

I would want 7th overall + Klefbom + MPS for Dion

 

[dubplatepressure]

EDM fans want Phaneuf for a second and MPS.

They want a #1 defenseman for a 2nd and MPS. There's no reasoning with that fanbase, it's ridiculous.

 

[dubplatepressure]

Wasn't comparing players games... I was comparing ceilings of dominance in the league.

The NHL is all about speed on the back end the only issue i would have having Rielly, Gards and Letang are that they are all LHS. Wish 1 was a RHS...

Oh I see what you mean... well yes, I suppose the realm of 70 to 85 pts is probably quite realistic when considering Kadri's output.

 

[Penalty Kill Icing*]

Letang can play better defense than anyone on our team. Better defense than Duncan Keith too, who was the #1 defenseman on the team who just won a cup

Hell no.

 

[Amadeus]

They want a #1 defenseman for a 2nd and MPS. There's no reasoning with that fanbase, it's ridiculous.

I actually thought there was no one more annoying than Vancouver fans, but these Edmonton fans since they've come out of hibernating seem hard to beat.

 

[Badger Mayhew*]

Hell no.

Uh...yes he can. Seabrook stabilizes that pairing.

 

[Smif]

Letang can play better defense than anyone on our team. Better defense than Duncan Keith too, who was the #1 defenseman on the team who just won a cup

This. But I only want him to add to Phaneuf. I don't see a point in trading Phaneuf and then acquiring Letang, we'd essentially be at the same spot, still looking for a #2 Dman.

 

[Penalty Kill Icing*]

Uh...yes he can. Seabrook stabilizes that pairing.

I watched the Blackhawks series. Keith led his defense to the 6 game win against Bruins. Letang led his team to being swept by Bruins.

Watch NBC broadcast to see little plays that Keith made.

 

[dubplatepressure]

I watched the Blackhawks series. Keith led his defense to the 6 game win against Bruins. Letang led his team to being swept by Bruins.

Watch NBC broadcast to see little plays that Keith made.

Defensively Keith probably has an edge but offensively Letang has outscored him the last couple seasons. Anyway, Letang is available, Keith is not.