Pre-Game Talk: 2013-2014 Training Camp/Preseason Discussion Thread Part 2

[NYR Viper]

Was I the only person actually impressed with Hrivik's skating? He looked even better than last year in the AHL which is a very good thing. I thought he was moving quite well.

 

[Ola]

The Rangers been on the ice for 4 days before playing their first preseason game. Its always the same people complaining.

The thing is, with all due respect, I wonder if that says much to 90% of the posters here (and that is generous).

A full camp is no time what-so-ever to implement a new system. I don't think its an overstatement that AV, if he had the option, would mark up another 60-90 hours on the ice with his players before today. That is what coaches in the SHL (fomer SEL) does. At this point he has been on the ice with them, save for the opening skate, for like 2-3 hrs.

That is just reality. Our competitors has for years worked in the same directions. And they become better the more time they get together really. Personell come and go, but the team play of, just for example, say a Detroit and NJD probably more or less is better than ever considering the talent they have for example.

AV don't have to start from scratch. Far from it. Players aren't blank when they get him, they have had coaches before him and come from diffrent environment. I shouldn't oversstate the time he is going to need. But depending on what you want to do, how big adjustments needs to be made etc, a full year is really nothing in this perspective. To paint a broad picture, if AV want to make changes A, B and C here in NY, its not unreasonable to expect him to target A basically until February this season, then slowly start to work on B before the PO's, and then take C next season.

Hockey is not about drawin up plays on a board. Its about executing drawn up plays on the ice under the conditions the game is played.

 

[SingnBluesOnBroadway]

Was I the only person actually impressed with Hrivik's skating? He looked even better than last year in the AHL which is a very good thing. I thought he was moving quite well.

He looked big to me.

 

[JohnC]

Hopefully we don't hold back on the too many men penalties this year. Anybody know what last years streak was? Felt like at least 5 games

 

[Levitate]

I think they did a better job of attempting to move the puck last night than they have in a while. Not very fluid but the idea that it can be done was there.

They have players who can be good at it, J Moore in particular looked good at doing so last night. Brassard, Stralman, Zuc, Hagelin, Stepan, Nash, McD, even Richards could do it although not with Nash. Even the little I saw of Lindberg and Fast showed some promise. Del Zotto, Miller, have some ability to move the puck, just not quite there on the decision making/reading the play which could change.

It's pre-season, they played a bunch of guys to get a look, not sure why the expectations would be anything else. The coaching should be like something along the lines of, "Wow J Moore can do that? How do we come up with a plan to allow him to do that without getting caught with an odd man rush coming at us if he turns it over trying it." Not , "Wow J Moore can do that, I don't like it, stay in your spot J Moore it's not how I like to play hockey."

Lookit this guy making sense

 

[Inferno]

to me, the roster we iced yesterday kinda sucked....im not surprised we lost....I don't get why so many guys who aren't going to be on the team play so many preseason games...to me, id rather ice my complete team with a few guys with legit shots to make the team getting some ice time. rely on scouting reports to figure out who is next in line.

why was Stu playing? Why was Johnson playing? Too many scrubs last night. Play people with LEGITIMATE shots. Bourque? He played well, but hes not making this team.

I get the whole "clean slate" crap, but ive never been a fan of playing 400 different ppl in the preseason. every coach does it and it annoys me.

Last night I woulda gone with something like...

Kreider - Richards - Nash
Pouliot/Kristo - Brassard - Pouliot/Kristo
Fasth - Moore - Lindberg
Pyatt - Boyle Dorsett

Pick any 5 of our regulars + Mcilrath

Lets your regulars get the rust off, and you see kids/players who are legitimate vying for roster spots.


I just have a fundamental disagreement with the way 99% of the coaches out there run their preseason rosters.

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

to me, the roster we iced yesterday kinda sucked....im not surprised we lost....I don't get why so many guys who aren't going to be on the team play so many preseason games...to me, id rather ice my complete team with a few guys with legit shots to make the team getting some ice time. rely on scouting reports to figure out who is next in line.

why was Stu playing? Why was Johnson playing? Too many scrubs last night. Play people with LEGITIMATE shots. Bourque? He played well, but hes not making this team.

I get the whole "clean slate" crap, but ive never been a fan of playing 400 different ppl in the preseason. every coach does it and it annoys me.

Last night I woulda gone with something like...

Kreider - Richards - Nash
Pouliot/Kristo - Brassard - Pouliot/Kristo
Fasth - Moore - Lindberg
Pyatt - Boyle Dorsett

Pick any 5 of our regulars + Mcilrath

Lets your regulars get the rust off, and you see kids/players who are legitimate vying for roster spots.


I just have a fundamental disagreement with the way 99% of the coaches out there run their preseason rosters.

Cuts are expected shortly after tonight's game. Pretty much everyone gets a chance in one pre-season game. Makes sense to me.

 

[Inferno]

any chance anyone can record tonights game and upload it?

*cough* CHARLIE *cough*

ive got a game tonight so im gonna miss it.

 

[Inferno]

Cuts are expected shortly after tonight's game. Pretty much everyone gets a chance in one pre-season game. Makes sense to me.

but why? why even waste those 2 games? these guys get so little time to practice and work on stuff, especially in an Olympic year. why are we pissing away time to get the team gelling...especially with a new coach.

what makes sense about Ryan Bourque playing last night? hes gotta be like the 40th forward we would call up.

 

[Ian]

It's the first game of the preseason, and also the first game of a back-to-back, they have to rotate at least 35+ players through these two games. Makes zero sense to risk guys pulling muscles or getting hurt this early.

 

[Inferno]

It's the first game of the preseason, and also the first game of a back-to-back, they have to rotate at least 35+ players through these two games. Makes zero sense to risk guys pulling muscles or getting hurt this early.

weigh that vz hazving them all on the same page and ahead of thte curve to start the season. could get a few more points banked early by getting the entire team ready to go earlier than anyone else.

 

[Blue Blooded]

The thing is, with all due respect, I wonder if that says much to 90% of the posters here (and that is generous).

A full camp is no time what-so-ever to implement a new system. I don't think its an overstatement that AV, if he had the option, would mark up another 60-90 hours on the ice with his players before today. That is what coaches in the SHL (fomer SEL) does. At this point he has been on the ice with them, save for the opening skate, for like 2-3 hrs.

That is just reality. Our competitors has for years worked in the same directions. And they become better the more time they get together really. Personell come and go, but the team play of, just for example, say a Detroit and NJD probably more or less is better than ever considering the talent they have for example.

AV don't have to start from scratch. Far from it. Players aren't blank when they get him, they have had coaches before him and come from diffrent environment. I shouldn't oversstate the time he is going to need. But depending on what you want to do, how big adjustments needs to be made etc, a full year is really nothing in this perspective. To paint a broad picture, if AV want to make changes A, B and C here in NY, its not unreasonable to expect him to target A basically until February this season, then slowly start to work on B before the PO's, and then take C next season.

Hockey is not about drawin up plays on a board. Its about executing drawn up plays on the ice under the conditions the game is played.

I've always wondered why the camps are so short, is it restricted in the CBA?

Training camps in Sweden, in Hockey or Soccer, go on for months.

 

[Ian]

weigh that vz hazving them all on the same page and ahead of thte curve to start the season. could get a few more points banked early by getting the entire team ready to go earlier than anyone else.

It's not that I don't necessarily agree with you in this respect, but I just can't question the choice in the first game period, as well as the first game of the first back to back. There's just too many other factors to warrant running the same group of guys out again, rather then just let them get in another day of practice.

Come the last set of two games? I'll agree with you 100%. I'd give Hank time there, and probably Richards/Nash/Staal/Girardi/McD. Rest of guys should be in that lineup both days.

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

weigh that vz hazving them all on the same page and ahead of thte curve to start the season. could get a few more points banked early by getting the entire team ready to go earlier than anyone else.

In a nutshell its a tool used to avoid injury, I'd imagine. Don't see the need the start getting guys into back to back games being they were on their couches 4 days ago.

But perhaps more importantly, these guys that will likely never sniff regular season NHL action are still in the system, and due diligence is getting a look at them in NHL pre-season games.

 

[RangerBoy]

The thing is, with all due respect, I wonder if that says much to 90% of the posters here (and that is generous).

A full camp is no time what-so-ever to implement a new system. I don't think its an overstatement that AV, if he had the option, would mark up another 60-90 hours on the ice with his players before today. That is what coaches in the SHL (fomer SEL) does. At this point he has been on the ice with them, save for the opening skate, for like 2-3 hrs.

That is just reality. Our competitors has for years worked in the same directions. And they become better the more time they get together really. Personell come and go, but the team play of, just for example, say a Detroit and NJD probably more or less is better than ever considering the talent they have for example.

AV don't have to start from scratch. Far from it. Players aren't blank when they get him, they have had coaches before him and come from diffrent environment. I shouldn't oversstate the time he is going to need. But depending on what you want to do, how big adjustments needs to be made etc, a full year is really nothing in this perspective. To paint a broad picture, if AV want to make changes A, B and C here in NY, its not unreasonable to expect him to target A basically until February this season, then slowly start to work on B before the PO's, and then take C next season.

Hockey is not about drawin up plays on a board. Its about executing drawn up plays on the ice under the conditions the game is played.

Some people are big complainers than others. The players have been on the ice for 4 days and some people want a complete change in everything. The players are on the ice for 60-90 minutes a day and its been 4 days.

 

[RangerBoy]

The NHL and NHLPA have agreed on a 20 day training camp. Its in the CBA. From the time camp starts until the first day of the regular season. 20 days. Some teams may not open on the first night so they get a break. There is even a limit on how much time the players skate per day at camp. You don't see long days or 2 a day skates.

 

[Inferno]

Some people are big complainers than others. The players have been on the ice for 4 days and some people want a complete change in everything. The players are on the ice for 60-90 minutes a day and its been 4 days.

which is exactly why I think more ice time for the regulars to learn the system is better than playing guys with no legit shot.

if Torts was back, id say, fine, whatever, this team is completely changing their style right? put the regulars out there, this is their practice time.

 

[Blue Blooded]

The NHL and NHLPA have agreed on a 20 day training camp. Its in the CBA. From the time camp starts until the first day of the regular season. 20 days. Some teams may not open on the first night so they get a break. There is even a limit on how much time the players skate per day at camp. You don't see long days or 2 a day skates.

Why do they have these restrictions? 20 days, with 60-90 minute practices is ridiculously little preparation when you think about it.

I'm guessing the players are complaining about workload, to which I say: Get over yourselves. They train and skate all summer anyway, why can't they do that with the coaches supervision?

 

[Fitzy]

I noticed a couple system differences already in the first game.

First, AV has Moore carrying the puck up the ice. MDZ too. If the pass isn't there, they don't to a tip-dump, AV wants the defenseman to find space and take the puck himself. Less conservative breakout drills in general.

The second was that the setup on the PP seemed unfamiliar. Guys were in different locations on the ice.

 

[lucky13]

I wouldn't go that far after one pre-season game, but I'm sure that dose is right around the corner.

doesnt help that 3 of his top 6....a full line actually are either on the shelf or yet to sign.....

but i still dont see us being an overly dom offensive force either way....but if he can get just a lil more out the O and improve the PP.....we'll make noise in the east

 

[RangerBoy]

From: @AGrossRecord
Sent: Sep 17, 2013 11:18a

J.T. Miller, who tweaked his hamstring during Thursday's conditioning test, is back on the ice today with non-game group.

sent via TweetDeck
On Twitter: http://twitter.com/AGrossRecord/status/379987815745871872

 

[Brooklyn Rangers Fan]

Was I the only person actually impressed with Hrivik's skating? He looked even better than last year in the AHL which is a very good thing. I thought he was moving quite well.

Hey, he's the one guy I gave a scoring change after you brought it up.

I thought both he and Kristo looked pretty good, but as I mentioned before and you yourself pointed out later, when they play with Boyle as the center, they're pretty much doomed to play "Torts hockey" (get it down lown, grind, try to bring it out in front of the net) due to Brian's lack of creativity, cement feet and the fact that he, as the center, is naturally predisposed to play that game. As a result, it's hard to get a good read on their playmaking, speed and any other talents outside of their ability to work the boards and pass in close.

I thought both showed flashes of creativity in close and Hrivik in particular seemed to know what he was doing when working the boards. I originally mentioned Kristo above Hrivik (unfairly), because he got PP time and managed to display more creativity and offense (the shot off the pass from J Moore most notably) in that setting.

 

[Blue Blooded]

I noticed a couple system differences already in the first game.

First, AV has Moore carrying the puck up the ice. MDZ too. If the pass isn't there, they don't to a tip-dump, AV wants the defenseman to find space and take the puck himself. Less conservative breakout drills in general.

The second was that the setup on the PP seemed unfamiliar. Guys were in different locations on the ice.

My biggest hopes for an AV coached Ranger team is improvement in zone exits and entries.

Controlled zone entries are so much better than dump/tip ins that a player only needs to be 34% confident that he won't turn over the puck for it to be better to try a controlled attempt.

Tracking of zone exists has just begun so there has yet to be done analysis work on it, but it is a reasonable expectation that controlled zone exits lead to controlled zone entries.

Torts' system was based around safe entries/exits that minimized turnovers. Unfortunately for him, all evidence points towards that the opposite strategy is the way to go.

 

[Levitate]

Why do they have these restrictions? 20 days, with 60-90 minute practices is ridiculously little preparation when you think about it.

I'm guessing the players are complaining about workload, to which I say: Get over yourselves. They train and skate all summer anyway, why can't they do that with the coaches supervision?

so it doesn't turn into the NFL where players are basically forced to practice with the team during the entire "offseason"

e: zone exits and playing less of a passive defensive game could have a huge effect on the Rangers offense if they can do it correctly and efficiently. Problem is, when you don't have the puck on your stick you can't score goals, and playing passive defense and safely chipping the puck out means that you don't have the puck on your stick very much at all.

Same thing for zone entries really...if you're dumping the puck in you're essentially just throwing away possession and hoping you'll get it back. I think there was even a stats analysis that came to the conclusion that "takeaway" and "giveaway" stats are actually somewhat interpreted backwards by a lot of people...takeaways mean you didn't have the puck much, giveaways mean you had the puck more often. Obviously that will break down at some point but the overriding message in all of this is that to be a good, contending hockey team, you need to be able to possess the puck.

Luckily, AV is known for being in the know about these kind of stats so hopefully it's something he'll start stressing.

 

[Blue Blooded]

so it doesn't turn into the NFL where players are basically forced to practice with the team during the entire "offseason"

A little vacation is fine, but these guys basically have 2-3 months off or even more!

20 days is way too little. 60 days with a bit more practice time is not unreasonable at all IMO.