Pre-Game Talk: 2013-2014 Training Camp/Preseason Discussion Thread Part 2

[JohnC]

I'm confused.

Brad Richards, Vinny Lecavalier, Dan Boyle, Martin St. Louis

I won't discredit his cup but c'mon. No slouches back then either

 

[RangerBoy]

One preseason game. That says everything.

 

[TheRightWay]

It never ceases to amaze me how reality gets lost in Torts conversations. The Rangers just simply do not have many players, especially forwards, capable of making creative plays in critical areas of the ice. Mr. Safe is Death transformed into a safe style leaning on his all-world goalie. Tortorella didn't place his imprint on the roster - it was actually the other way around.

Vigneault got a cold dose of reality last night.

You were doing really well until that last line, which is absolutely absurd. Ignoring the fact that it was one game with everyone still getting into game shape, half of the players who will be in our lineup by December weren't even playing.

 

[NYR Viper]

Anyone slightly surprised not to see Josh Nicholls not in a game yet? reports out of camp were that he was playing very well...

 

[GAGLine]

It never ceases to amaze me how reality gets lost in Torts conversations. The Rangers just simply do not have many players, especially forwards, capable of making creative plays in critical areas of the ice. Mr. Safe is Death transformed into a safe style leaning on his all-world goalie. Tortorella didn't place his imprint on the roster - it was actually the other way around.

Vigneault got a cold dose of reality last night.

Yes, in the first game of the preseason, in a game where we played maybe 9 players who will be in our starting lineup for game 1, Vigneault got a dose of reality. Please. He hasn't even installed his system yet.

Torts leaned on his all-world goalie by having the rest of the team collapse into the middle and block shots? I would think with an all-world goalie, we'd be able to take more chances offensively rather than less.

I dislike Sather as much as the next guy, but your hate-mongering agenda is getting tiresome. You just can't accept that anyone but Sather could ever possibly be at fault.

 

[Brooklyn Rangers Fan]

Anyone slightly surprised not to see Josh Nicholls not in a game yet? reports out of camp were that he was playing very well...

Good call. That is interesting. And yet, he hasn't been sent down yet, correct?

Anyone else who is conspicuously absent from the first two games who is still with the club?

 

[NYR Viper]

Good call. That is interesting. And yet, he hasn't been sent down yet, correct?

Anyone else who is conspicuously absent from the first two games who is still with the club?

St Croix is another one although from reports he hasn't looked as good. Tommy Hughes hasn't gotten into a game yet.

Can't think of anyone else besides Miller who is hurt.

 

[HatTrick Swayze]

It never ceases to amaze me how reality gets lost in Torts conversations. The Rangers just simply do not have many players, especially forwards, capable of making creative plays in critical areas of the ice. Mr. Safe is Death transformed into a safe style leaning on his all-world goalie. Tortorella didn't place his imprint on the roster - it was actually the other way around.

Vigneault got a cold dose of reality last night.

I think it's way, way too early for that last line. But I unfortunately don't disagree with the rest of the post one bit.

Will be interesting to watch that's for sure. At the end of the day AV is the coach and I hope he can get some more goals out of this squad.

Can always let Cally and Girardi walk to sign the Sedins next summer.

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

Yes, in the first game of the preseason, in a game where we played maybe 9 players who will be in our starting lineup for game 1, Vigneault got a dose of reality. Please. He hasn't even installed his system yet.

Torts leaned on his all-world goalie by having the rest of the team collapse into the middle and block shots? I would think with an all-world goalie, we'd be able to take more chances offensively rather than less.

I dislike Sather as much as the next guy, but your hate-mongering agenda is getting tiresome. You just can't accept that anyone but Sather could ever possibly be at fault.

Wrong. Im an equal opportunity hater between Sather and the players (the ones who aren't good enough, anyway -- which is, annually, about half the forwards).

And yes, Vigneault is in the process of getting a cold dose of reality when it comes to the inherent lack of offensive creativity on this roster. The Sedins walking through that door would be a much bigger help than any coach's system.

 

[NYR Viper]

Wrong. Im an equal opportunity hater between Sather and the players (the ones who aren't good enough, anyway -- which is, annually, about half the forwards).

And yes, Vigneault is in the process of getting a cold dose of reality when it comes to the inherent lack of offensive creativity on this roster. The Sedins walking through that door would be a much bigger help than any coach's system.

I think the feeling is that some of the younger players like Miller, Kristo, Hrivik, Lindberg and Fast should help that moving forward. Unfortunately, not all (any?) of them will be ready to start the season.

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

I think it's way, way too early for that last line. But I unfortunately don't disagree with the rest of the post one bit.

Will be interesting to watch that's for sure. At the end of the day AV is the coach and I hope he can get some more goals out of this squad.

Can always let Cally and Girardi walk to sign the Sedins next summer.

The last line of my post isn't some end-all, be-all. Any seasoned NHL coach, after having the opportunity to watch these forwards for a few days, would have that reality set in that the vast majority of forwards in camp just aren't very creative offensively. Thats reality. And I feel for Vigneault, or any other coach under Sather, because he doesnt have the luxury of most fans -- which is pretend these guys are better than they are and/or pretend a couple of system tweaks will unlock a dormant offense.

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

I think the feeling is that some of the younger players like Miller, Kristo, Hrivik, Lindberg and Fast should help that moving forward. Unfortunately, not all (any?) of them will be ready to start the season.

Im looking forward to seeing Lindberg and Fast tonight.

Miller is banged up and we know he needs seasoning. I thought Kristo and Hrivik were OK on the boards last night, but showed little to no offensive creativity that this team so desperately lacks.

 

[NYR Viper]

Im looking forward to seeing Lindberg and Fast tonight.

Miller is banged up and we know he needs seasoning. I thought Kristo and Hrivik were OK on the boards last night, but showed little to no offensive creativity that this team so desperately lacks.

I am not a Boyle hater by any means, but throwing them out there with a center like Boyle, while most likely realistic for this years team, doesn't exactly help.

I thought Hrivik did very well and his speed has gotten better even since last year. He was by no means slow which was his major knock. He was strong on the puck, defensively responsible from what I saw and he made smart plays.

I see this years team as a transition year team unfortunately.

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

I am not a Boyle hater by any means, but throwing them out there with a center like Boyle, while most likely realistic for this years team, doesn't exactly help.

I thought Hrivik did very well and his speed has gotten better even since last year. He was by no means slow which was his major knock. He was strong on the puck, defensively responsible from what I saw and he made smart plays.

I see this years team as a transition year team unfortunately.

A transition to what exactly? Like 80% of the team are free agents next year.

No offense, but you're just naming names at this point and hoping they can be a solution with no real evidence to back up those thoughts.

 

[NYR Viper]

A transition to what exactly? Like 80% of the team are free agents next year.

No offense, but you're just naming names at this point and hoping they can be a solution with no real evidence to back up those thoughts.

To a more offensive oriented team.

And no I'm not, I am looking at those players track records and formulating an opinion from watching them play.

 

[Levitate]

I think people sell a lot of the Rangers offense short and Tortorella's system kind of became a self fulfilling prophecy at some point. Eventually it doesn't matter what talented players you bring in if your system makes them play conservatively and hesitant, which in the end, was exactly what Torts system was doing.

The Rangers have a fairly significant amount of talent on offense but it does no one any good if it's all standing around "in position" because coaching told them that's where they had to be or they're "out of position" and not playing the game the right way.

 

[GAGLine]

Wrong. Im an equal opportunity hater between Sather and the players (the ones who aren't good enough, anyway -- which is, annually, about half the forwards).

Right, and who do you blame for the players? Sather of course.

 

[Trxjw]

Anyone slightly surprised not to see Josh Nicholls not in a game yet? reports out of camp were that he was playing very well...

I'm surprised by that as well. Thought he earned a shot to get into a game.

 

[RangerBoy]

The Rangers been on the ice for 4 days before playing their first preseason game. Its always the same people complaining.

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

Right, and who do you blame for the players? Sather of course.

It certainly seems to be a logical connection. You could also easily blame him for the coach when you eventually give the players a pass and start blaming Vigneault.

This is far from "hate-mongering" as you put it. This is focusing on the major issue that has plagued this team during Sather's tenure -- roster construction. Namely, the inability to construct a team with inherent offensive skill and creativity.

 

[GAGLine]

It certainly seems to be a logical connection. You could also easily blame him for the coach when you eventually give the players a pass and start blaming Vigneault.

This is far from "hate-mongering" as you put it. This is focusing on the major issue that has plagued this team during Sather's tenure -- roster construction. Namely, the inability to construct a team with inherent offensive skill and creativity.

You are so predictable.

In previous conversations on this topic, I have said repeatedly, as have others, that pointing out Torts' faults doesn't mean we are giving Sather or the players a pass. But you just can't understand that, can you? You have to have 1 person to blame for everything.

Are you telling me that if Sather stepped down, you wouldn't eventually blame his replacement for everything? Take a look in the mirror bud, because you are doing exactly what you accuse others of doing.

If Sather leaves, it will be Gorton or Clark running the show, and they pretty much run the show now anyway. But you keep beating that dead horse.

 

[RangerBoy]

Hrivik looks like Vladimir Vorobiev when he skates. Was anyone really expecting him to make this team? Hrivik needs to stay healthy for a full season and avoid the concussions. He suffered one last summer and then during the season.

 

[Fitzy]

Mystified by the negativity. There was just a lot of rust, which is inevitable.

Talbot continued to solidify himself in my mind as a guy this organization should look at this year. Great quick movement.

Kristo looks talented, but is smaller than I remember him. Hrivik is still a mystery to me, because I think if he does make the team it would have to be in a top 6 role. We're weak on the left though, so with Hags out it could happen.

Looking at

Kreider-Richards-Nash
Pouliot-Brassard-Zuccarello
Pyatt-Stepan-Kristo
Dorsett-Moore-Boyle

perhaps to start the season, but we will have to see how Lindberg does. Because of the center depth he will have to impress.

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

You are so predictable.

In previous conversations on this topic, I have said repeatedly, as have others, that pointing out Torts' faults doesn't mean we are giving Sather or the players a pass. But you just can't understand that, can you? You have to have 1 person to blame for everything.

Are you telling me that if Sather stepped down, you wouldn't eventually blame his replacement for everything? Take a look in the mirror bud, because you are doing exactly what you accuse others of doing.

If Sather leaves, it will be Gorton or Clark running the show, and they pretty much run the show now anyway. But you keep beating that dead horse.

No, I wouldnt. I would give Gorton, with full control, plenty of time to prove his worth (just not 13 years). It would be the single best thing that would happen to this franchise. Apathy about Sather's tenure hasn't set in over here yet like so many others who are willing to take the "wait and see" approach despite 13 years of similar results.

 

[Off Sides]

I think they did a better job of attempting to move the puck last night than they have in a while. Not very fluid but the idea that it can be done was there.

They have players who can be good at it, J Moore in particular looked good at doing so last night. Brassard, Stralman, Zuc, Hagelin, Stepan, Nash, McD, even Richards could do it although not with Nash. Even the little I saw of Lindberg and Fast showed some promise. Del Zotto, Miller, have some ability to move the puck, just not quite there on the decision making/reading the play which could change.

It's pre-season, they played a bunch of guys to get a look, not sure why the expectations would be anything else. The coaching should be like something along the lines of, "Wow J Moore can do that? How do we come up with a plan to allow him to do that without getting caught with an odd man rush coming at us if he turns it over trying it." Not , "Wow J Moore can do that, I don't like it, stay in your spot J Moore it's not how I like to play hockey."