OT: 2013-2014 NFL Thread III? (Giants hosting Girls; Jets at Ravens)

[Hi ImHFNYR]

The Jets never make a move for guys like that.

They could have had Boldin twice. Went for like a 4th or 5th rounder. He'd be the Jets best offensive player by a fair margain.

They went for holmes... anyway we dont know what the new GM would do. But a guy like Hicks is good asset management for a 2nd rounder. a 2nd rounder can get you Ducasse instead woopiee!!!! Mocking Ducasse not you. Or kellen clemens or victor hobson, Stephen Hill, etc. If you can get a guaranteed starting WR for 5+ years it's a good deal for a 2nd

 

[Hunter Gathers]

a 2nd rounder can get you Ducasse instead woopiee!!!!

 

[silverfish]

How could you possibly root for the Giants to go 0-16?

All of us were truly embarrassed by the Rangers losing 9-2 last night, but you wouldn't be embarrassed by an 0-16 season?

 

[Hunter Gathers]

Me too. , cause if they make the season respectable, likely no changes.

At-least Gilbride will be gone. Along with Tom Quinn. How does he still have a job?

The 0-16 thing is stupid. But in all seriousness, special teams have been OK since we got a good punter.

 

[BroadwayBlues]

How could you possibly root for the Giants to go 0-16?

All of us were truly embarrassed by the Rangers losing 9-2 last night, but you wouldn't be embarrassed by an 0-16 season?

If you're going to stink, don't half ass it. Mediocrity gets you nowhere.

 

[BlueshirtBlitz]

How could you possibly root for the Giants to go 0-16?

All of us were truly embarrassed by the Rangers losing 9-2 last night, but you wouldn't be embarrassed by an 0-16 season?

I'd be embarrassed by Fewell and Gilbride staying another year.

We probably won't go 0-16 but the goal from here on out is to get the best possible draft pick.

 

[RangerBoy]

The Jets need to pay Wilkerson. He has one more year left on his rookie deal. The Jets could wait until after 2014 or do it this off-season.

In a few months, the Jets and Wilkerson will be talking contract. He has only one year remaining on his rookie deal, and the team almost certainly will try to lock him up next offseason with a long-term deal -- probably the first mega-contract of the John Idzik era. The franchise-tag amount this year for a defensive end is $11.2 million, so that should provide a basic idea of how much of a yearly average we’re talking about.

http://espn.go.com/blog/new-york/jets/post/_/id/28857/wilkerson-can-be-jets-next-revis

All of the defensive lineman are signed through 2014.

Idzik is a very conservative guy. He believes in the draft. He needs to pay Wilkerson.

The Jets acquired Holmes from Pittsburgh because he was cheap and Rex wanted him. Under Mangini,the Jets wouldn't have touched Holmes. He has been a disaster for the Jets. Take away his first season in 2010. Pittsburgh wanted him off the team at any cost.

The Jets gave Holmes a five-year $45 million deal in the summer of 2011. Since then, he has played 24 games. In that time, he has gone over 100 yards receiving just twice, including the 154-yard performance against Buffalo. He has had more than six catches in a game just once, has not recorded more than one touchdown in any game and has a total of 10 scores.

On Thursday, Holmes took a dig at the Jets’ offense and Smith, the rookie quarterback, in particular. Holmes was held to just one catch last week against the Titans, but, as usual, it wasn’t his fault. It was the person throwing it to him or the fact he was double-covered, not his inability to get open.

“I played 49 plays and all I know is that I had one catch. That’s all I can attest for,†Holmes said. “It’s the offense’s job. I can’t throw it to myself and catch it, otherwise I would.â€

http://nypost.com/2013/10/04/santonio-often-not-worth-jets-45m-tab/

Holmes had issues with Sanchez. Then he takes a shot at Geno.

 

[nyr2k2]

Yeah Tone is ****. The sooner he's gone, the better.

 

[Matt4776]

Nicks won't be traded as a rental. He will sign long term wherever he is traded. If Idzik can get a #1 receiver like Nicks for something like a 2nd and a 4th, he'd be nuts to pass it up. He's on a completely different level than anyone the Jets currently have.

You aren't getting a Nicks with a 2nd or 4th round pick, most likely.

I wouldn't give up a 2nd and a 4th for Nicks and then have to pay him FA money when I can just wait until FA and pay FA money without giving up such valuable picks- and I'm not even interested in signing any FA WRs this year other than MAYBE Maclin.

I would try to send Tampa's 2014 3rd to Cleveland for Gordon. No higher. Still extremely young and cost controlled.

That would make the Revis deal Revis for Milliner and Gordon. If Milliner can stay healthy and play the same game he did at 'Bama, that's a hell of a deal. A #1 CB wanting 16M a year off an ACL injury for a #1 CB and a #1 WR both on rookie deals.

 

[nyr2k2]

Unless we get some negotiating window for Nicks, I wouldn't give up a second. Is that even legal in the NFL? Certainly not a first. Not without the knowledge that he will definitely be with the team beyond this season. The Jets aren't in the position to be trading high picks for rentals.

 

[Hi ImHFNYR]

I wouldn't give up a 2nd and a 4th for Nicks and then have to pay him FA money when I can just wait until FA and pay FA money without giving up such valuable picks- and I'm not even interested in signing any FA WRs this year other than MAYBE Maclin.

I would try to send Tampa's 2014 3rd to Cleveland for Gordon. No higher. Still extremely young and cost controlled.

That would make the Revis deal Revis for Milliner and Gordon. If Milliner can stay healthy and play the same game he did at 'Bama, that's a hell of a deal. A #1 CB wanting 16M a year off an ACL injury for a #1 CB and a #1 WR both on rookie deals.

After thinking some more I don't think it'd be smart to give up a 2nd for him in the upcoming draft without a signed contract. So my revised trades:

A 3rd in this years draft.
NEXT years is a conditional 2nd IF he re-signs.
If he doesn't re-sign then it'd be a 4th (maybe 5th the Jets are good with 4th round picks)

Another possibility is simply get Hicks to agree to a contract and then trade for him for 2 picks between now and next year. I'm sure if the Giants really want to unload Nicks they'd allow teams to talk to his agent now.

The Giants can probably get a better deal than that from a contender. If I'm NE I'm working to bring in Nicks and/or Gonzalez this year. Doubt they'd be able to get both but imagine if they luck out and get Gonzalez for like a 4th this year b/c he's that desperate to get out of Atlanta and then they get Hicks for a 3rd b/c the Giants just can't get anyone to take him b/c of his UFA status? Uck. They like to stockpile their picks though and that'd be too crazy. Dunno what NE's cap is either.

I don't like doing fake trades though. I always get to the end and realize I did a bunch of speculating for no reason whatsoever

 

[mulli25]

I'm curious to see what type of contract the Jets end up signing Wilkerson to

Bengals DE Micheal Johnson is playing under the tag this year and the two will likely comand similiar deals. I hope my bengals can keep MJ but with the money they just gave Geno and Dunlap and potential extensions for AJ Green and Dalton i'm not holding my breath.

Hopefully the Jets get Wilkerson on the cheap and the bengals can use that as leverage

 

[RangerBoy]

Unless we get some negotiating window for Nicks, I wouldn't give up a second. Is that even legal in the NFL? Certainly not a first. Not without the knowledge that he will definitely be with the team beyond this season. The Jets aren't in the position to be trading high picks for rentals.

When was the last time that scenario happened in the NFL?

 

[nyr2k2]

When was the last time that scenario happened in the NFL?

I honestly don't know. I'm not even sure that the CBA permits it.

 

[RangerBoy]

Cromartie has one more year left. The Jets could cut him and clear money and the Jets take a higher cap hit than the others by releasing him. Idzik could finish cleaning house by cutting Sanchez,Holmes and Cromartie. Maybe cut Harris too. Clear the decks from the old regime except for the two offensive linemen. Maybe they can trade Cromartie.

 

[nyr2k2]

I'd rather keep Cromartie, if his contract demands are reasonable. We don't have anyone on the roster capable of playing anywhere close to his level, so getting rid of him just opens another hole to fill.

 

[Hunter Gathers]

I wouldn't give up a 2nd and a 4th for Nicks and then have to pay him FA money when I can just wait until FA and pay FA money without giving up such valuable picks- and I'm not even interested in signing any FA WRs this year other than MAYBE Maclin.

I would try to send Tampa's 2014 3rd to Cleveland for Gordon. No higher. Still extremely young and cost controlled.

That would make the Revis deal Revis for Milliner and Gordon. If Milliner can stay healthy and play the same game he did at 'Bama, that's a hell of a deal. A #1 CB wanting 16M a year off an ACL injury for a #1 CB and a #1 WR both on rookie deals.

Cleveland will be getting a 2nd for Gordon. Same with the Giants for Nicks.

If the Jets don't want to pay, other teams will (Patriots and Chiefs). Whoever trades for these guys will be signing them long term, so neither will be on the market. Nicks is also exponentially better than Maclin.

And why would Cleveland take a 3rd for Gordon when they just used a 2nd on him a year ago? They will ask for a 2nd and another pick, I'm sure.

 

[Made Dan]

Why would the Jets cut Cromartie? Milliner hasn't shown that he's fully ready and do we really want Kyle Wilson taking a majority of snaps?

 

[nyr2k2]

Cleveland will be getting a 2nd for Gordon. Same with the Giants for Nicks.

If the Jets don't want to pay, other teams will (Patriots and Chiefs). Whoever trades for these guys will be signing them long term, so neither will be on the market. Nicks is also exponentially better than Maclin.

And why would Cleveland take a 3rd for Gordon when they just used a 2nd on him a year ago? They will ask for a 2nd and another pick, I'm sure.

Again, though--who's to say the player will want to sign a long-term extension with the team that acquires him? You're stating it like it's certain that he'll sign with anyone that makes a deal for him. Why?

 

[Matt4776]

Cleveland will be getting a 2nd for Gordon. Same with the Giants for Nicks.

If the Jets don't want to pay, other teams will (Patriots and Chiefs). Whoever trades for these guys will be signing them long term, so neither will be on the market. Nicks is also exponentially better than Maclin.

And why would Cleveland take a 3rd for Gordon when they just used a 2nd on him a year ago? They will ask for a 2nd and another pick, I'm sure.

Quote from 2 months ago:

"Richardson would demand at least two first rounders. We just traded up to #3 overall last year. Why on earth would we give that up for a middle of the pack first rounder?"

That also doesn't even include the fact that Richardson has had absolutely zero off the field issues since the pick, while Gordon is now one infraction away from being suspended for an entire season.

 

[Hunter Gathers]

Again, though--who's to say the player will want to sign a long-term extension with the team that acquires him? You're stating it like it's certain that he'll sign with anyone that makes a deal for him. Why?

That's how these deals work. These players are the types of guys that don't hit the market. Historically, they sign long term. There's a small risk, but that's why you can make picks conditional. As a Giants fan, I have no problem with a team hedging their bet with some conditions. Nicks is a true #1 receiver. He'll be signed wherever he goes.

Quote from 2 months ago:

"Richardson would demand at least two first rounders. We just traded up to #3 overall last year. Why on earth would we give that up for a middle of the pack first rounder?"

That also doesn't even include the fact that Richardson has had absolutely zero off the field issues since the pick, while Gordon is now one infraction away from being suspended for an entire season.

So why would you even want Gordon, then? I like how you try to denigrate him in order to get him cheaper.

 

[nyr2k2]

That's how these deals work. These players are the types of guys that don't hit the market. Historically, they sign long term. There's a small risk, but that's why you can make picks conditional. As a Giants fan, I have no problem with a team hedging their bet with some conditions. Nicks is a true #1 receiver. He'll be signed wherever he goes.

How many legit #1 receivers have been traded midseason? "That's how these deals work." Really? Trades in the NFL are pretty infrequent, and blockbuster deals involving marquee players are even more rare. Can you give me a couple of examples of "these deals" and how they work? Marquee players about to reach UFA status that were traded in-season. I can think of a washed up Randy Moss, and that's pretty much it.

 

[NYR Viper]

How many legit #1 receivers have been traded midseason? "That's how these deals work." Really? Trades in the NFL are pretty infrequent, and blockbuster deals involving marquee players are even more rare. Can you give me a couple of examples of "these deals" and how they work? Marquee players about to reach UFA status that were traded in-season. I can think of a washed up Randy Moss, and that's pretty much it.

Roy Williams?

 

[nyr2k2]

Roy Williams?

Williams is interesting because:

a) he was never that good to begin with (not close to Nicks anyway)
b) he the Lions received a ridiculous haul for him

If UFA-to-be Roy Williams is worth a first, third and sixth, then Nicks better fetch three firsts.

Really, though, anyone else? I don't think that enough of these deals have taken place to establish what a guy is or isn't worth.

 

[Hunter Gathers]

How many legit #1 receivers have been traded midseason? "That's how these deals work." Really? Trades in the NFL are pretty infrequent, and blockbuster deals involving marquee players are even more rare. Can you give me a couple of examples of "these deals" and how they work? Marquee players about to reach UFA status that were traded in-season. I can think of a washed up Randy Moss, and that's pretty much it.

How many teams with players like Nicks are so ******?

I wasn't referring to just receiver trades. In the NFL, you don't see many high profile players traded regardless. But how many elite players actually hit free agency? Again, I don't really care if we move him to the Jets or not. Someone will pay. I'd prefer him to go to the Jets solely because Geno needs a great #1 receiver, but there are many options.