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OT: 2013-2014 NFL Thread III? (Giants hosting Girls; Jets at Ravens)

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All this media attention about Rex's D this and Rex's D that...Top 5 D in the league...Give me a break they are bottom of the league bad...The Giants started out historically bad and have now given up fewer points than the J E T S...More smoke and mirrors from the blowhard Rex
 
surf said:
All this media attention about Rex's D this and Rex's D that...Top 5 D in the league...Give me a break they are bottom of the league bad...The Giants started out historically bad and have now given up fewer points than the J E T S...More smoke and mirrors from the blowhard Rex
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The Jets defense is always on the field and has to deal with the worst offense in football.

You beat two of the worst teams in the league, the Packers with a fourth string QB, and the ever so bipolar Eagles.

Neither team has much to talk about. Both our teams suck.

Get a clue.
 
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U get a clue..Giants usually beat the Pack by 28 when Rodgers plays they own him...I am not calling the Giants world beaters we are under achieving middle of the pack average...I am saying all this BS about the Jets D is hogwash...They are no where near top of the league in D...they are imposter bullies led by a blowhard who believes his own press clippings




Matt4776 said:
The Jets defense is always on the field and has to deal with the worst offense in football.

You beat two of the worst teams in the league, the Packers with a fourth string QB, and the ever so bipolar Eagles.

Neither team has much to talk about. Both our teams suck.

Get a clue.
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surf said:
U get a clue..Giants usually beat the Pack by 28 when Rodgers plays they own him...I am not calling the Giants world beaters we are under achieving middle of the pack average...I am saying all this BS about the Jets D is hogwash...They are no where near top of the league in D...they are imposter bullies led by a blowhard who believes his own press clippings
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I'd say the Jets have a top-10 (not 5) defense. We have a superb front-7 with an incredibly mediocre secondary (oh how things have changed). That being said, when the defense is on the field for 40 minutes a game and half of the drives start in our own territory, they're going to be made worse than they really are.

We've also shutdown the Patriots twice and shutdown the Saints. When we get blown out, it's because Geno has 4+ turnovers including some taken back for scores. Not the defense's fault.

Since 2009, our "blowhard" has more wins than your coach (and yes, that includes playoffs)- and that's with a bottom-5 QB starting every year he's been here.
 
Geno likely won't cut it. We will have 50 mill to spend this offseason.

We have 11 or so draft picks. This is a high offensive draft.

Walls will step in as our 2nd CB. Milliner will learn the game. Yesterday was brutal for him but Cro got burnt the same exact way. First TD on him wasn't his fault, doubt he's ever seen wind take hold of a ball like that down in Alabama. His coverage skills are getting better. He needs to learn how to jam on the line. Rex really high on him - I don't doubt his opinion. Rex was never this high on Wilson. Don't see any comparison between the 2. Rookies will have their problems.

Dawan will likely resign. Same with Reed. Allen will improve further. Safeties and CB's are set heading into the season barring an injury.

I know everyone is predicting drafting an OLB in the first round but I can see Pace returning for 1 more year. He's done fine, he's not showing many signs of regression. Front 7 should be fine. We'll add some depth in the later rounds of the draft.

Skill positions will be drafted first. Seattle model was strong offensive front line, strong RB, rotate receivers. They lucked out with Wilson - we didn't luck out with Geno.

Matt Ryan and Jay Cutler are FA's this offseason. If Chi doesn't make the playoffs Cutler will likely leave. They blame him for everything.

Ryan could conceivably leave too. Defense has gotten worse. Losing Gonzalez. White and Jones have serious leg injuries. We would have taken him in the draft if we didn't win that meaningless last game that season.

We could spend 2/5 of our fa money on one of them. Draft a WR in the 1st round. Finishing 8-8, like we are projected to finish, should land us one of Sammy Watkins or Marqice Lee. 2nd round should see us taking a TE. We'll spend money on left guard too. Ducasse and Winters aren't going to amount to anything more than back up. Pocket was was atrocious last game. We may even have to find a replacement for Colon.

Plan should be get Ryan or Cutler. Get 2 vet guards who will shore up the line. Draft WR in the first round. Draft TE in the 2nd. Draft RB and TE with our 2 3rd round picks. Pick best available depth players with the next 7 picks.

Ryan's defense will win 8 games on their own. Without Geno's turnovers we probably are in that game till the very end. Vet QB would have dismantled that Buffalo secondary as well.

Get Ryan or Cutler. Get protection. Get weapons. Defense is set for now. Next draft you can let Rex get his player in the 1st round again.
 
kenjets36 said:
Geno likely won't cut it. We will have 50 mill to spend this offseason.

We have 11 or so draft picks. This is a high offensive draft.

Walls will step in as our 2nd CB. Milliner will learn the game. Yesterday was brutal for him but Cro got burnt the same exact way. First TD on him wasn't his fault, doubt he's ever seen wind take hold of a ball like that down in Alabama. His coverage skills are getting better. He needs to learn how to jam on the line. Rex really high on him - I don't doubt his opinion. Rex was never this high on Wilson. Don't see any comparison between the 2. Rookies will have their problems.

Dawan will likely resign. Same with Reed. Allen will improve further. Safeties and CB's are set heading into the season barring an injury.

I know everyone is predicting drafting an OLB in the first round but I can see Pace returning for 1 more year. He's done fine, he's not showing many signs of regression. Front 7 should be fine. We'll add some depth in the later rounds of the draft.

Skill positions will be drafted first. Seattle model was strong offensive front line, strong RB, rotate receivers. They lucked out with Wilson - we didn't luck out with Geno.

Matt Ryan and Jay Cutler are FA's this offseason. If Chi doesn't make the playoffs Cutler will likely leave. They blame him for everything.

Ryan could conceivably leave too. Defense has gotten worse. Losing Gonzalez. White and Jones have serious leg injuries. We would have taken him in the draft if we didn't win that meaningless last game that season.

We could spend 2/5 of our fa money on one of them. Draft a WR in the 1st round. Finishing 8-8, like we are projected to finish, should land us one of Sammy Watkins or Marqice Lee. 2nd round should see us taking a TE. We'll spend money on left guard too. Ducasse and Winters aren't going to amount to anything more than back up. Pocket was was atrocious last game. We may even have to find a replacement for Colon.

Plan should be get Ryan or Cutler. Get 2 vet guards who will shore up the line. Draft WR in the first round. Draft TE in the 2nd. Draft RB and TE with our 2 3rd round picks. Pick best available depth players with the next 7 picks.

Ryan's defense will win 8 games on their own. Without Geno's turnovers we probably are in that game till the very end. Vet QB would have dismantled that Buffalo secondary as well.

Get Ryan or Cutler. Get protection. Get weapons. Defense is set for now. Next draft you can let Rex get his player in the 1st round again.
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If you want Cutler/Ryan, you better be prepared to fork out 20M+ a year. When QBs make that much money who aren't ELITE (see Eli Manning, Joe Flacco) it cripples the team.

Even then, how often has a 20M QB won the SB when he was elite? Peyton with Indy? That's really it. If you pay that much for a QB, it's hard to surround him with quality talent. Going the UFA route for a QB is not worth it whatsoever.

Anyway, we aren't getting Watkins in the first. No shot he lasts until us. You could go Lee, but the WR depth in this draft is insane. Unless Watkins/Evans miraculously drops to us (which they wont) I'd rather not go WR in the first.

If Geno shows enough over the course of the year to be our long-term starter, I'd go either OLB or TE in round 1. If not, it's gotta be a round 1 QB. Derek Carr would be phenomenal.

Lets say Geno improves as the year goes on. Watkins and Evans are gone. Lee, Ebron, ASJ, (hopefully he declares) Amaro, and players like Van Noy/Mack/Beasley are on the board. Lee has been mediocre and banged up this year. He likely drops. Between OLB and TE. TEs drafted in the first round haven't been gangbusters ever. Gresham and Eifert are good TEs. Would you trade a first for either of them? I wouldn't.

I'd still take Van Noy 1st. Complete our front-7 for the next half-decade (maybe minus Harris who may need to be replaced in 2-3 years) at the minimum.

Maybe by some miracle (especially if Amaro declares) one of ASJ or Amaro will fall to us in the second (TEs always tend to fall further than expected). Go TE in the 2nd. We'll then have two 3rd rounders and two 4th rounders to address WR/RB. Personally, my ideal mock would look like this:

Geno shows enough to be long-term answer:

1. Van Noy
2. Austin Seferian-Jenkins
3. Odell Beckham Jr
3. Davante Adams
4. Carlos Hyde
4. Ed Reynolds

Geno doesn't:

1. Derek Carr
2. Austin Seferian-Jenkins
3. Odell Beckham Jr
3. Davante Adams
4. Carlos Hyde
4. Ed Reynolds

As far as FA goes, I'd like to try to sign a mid-level CB. Nothing too crazy.
 
kenjets36 said:
Matt Ryan and Jay Cutler are FA's this offseason. If Chi doesn't make the playoffs Cutler will likely leave. They blame him for everything.

Ryan could conceivably leave too. Defense has gotten worse. Losing Gonzalez. White and Jones have serious leg injuries. We would have taken him in the draft if we didn't win that meaningless last game that season.
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Matt Ryan Signed a five year extension this past off-season.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl/falcons/2013/07/25/matt-ryan-contract-extension/2587609/
 
Matt4776 said:
If you want Cutler/Ryan, you better be prepared to fork out 20M+ a year. When QBs make that much money who aren't ELITE (see Eli Manning, Joe Flacco) it cripples the team.

Even then, how often has a 20M QB won the SB when he was elite? Peyton with Indy? That's really it. If you pay that much for a QB, it's hard to surround him with quality talent. Going the UFA route for a QB is not worth it whatsoever.

Anyway, we aren't getting Watkins in the first. No shot he lasts until us. You could go Lee, but the WR depth in this draft is insane. Unless Watkins/Evans miraculously drops to us (which they wont) I'd rather not go WR in the first.

If Geno shows enough over the course of the year to be our long-term starter, I'd go either OLB or TE in round 1. If not, it's gotta be a round 1 QB. Derek Carr would be phenomenal.

Lets say Geno improves as the year goes on. Watkins and Evans are gone. Lee, Ebron, ASJ, (hopefully he declares) Amaro, and players like Van Noy/Mack/Beasley are on the board. Lee has been mediocre and banged up this year. He likely drops. Between OLB and TE. TEs drafted in the first round haven't been gangbusters ever. Gresham and Eifert are good TEs. Would you trade a first for either of them? I wouldn't.

I'd still take Van Noy 1st. Complete our front-7 for the next half-decade (maybe minus Harris who may need to be replaced in 2-3 years) at the minimum.

Maybe by some miracle (especially if Amaro declares) one of ASJ or Amaro will fall to us in the second (TEs always tend to fall further than expected). Go TE in the 2nd. We'll then have two 3rd rounders and two 4th rounders to address WR/RB. Personally, my ideal mock would look like this:

Geno shows enough to be long-term answer:

1. Van Noy
2. Austin Seferian-Jenkins
3. Odell Beckham Jr
3. Davante Adams
4. Carlos Hyde
4. Ed Reynolds

Geno doesn't:

1. Derek Carr
2. Austin Seferian-Jenkins
3. Odell Beckham Jr
3. Davante Adams
4. Carlos Hyde
4. Ed Reynolds

As far as FA goes, I'd like to try to sign a mid-level CB. Nothing too crazy.
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I disagree. The whole problem with Ryan's team's as Jets HC is the offense's inability to keep team's in a game.

Look at the disparity between wins and losses under his tenure here. Rarely do we blow other teams out but we have the ability to beat the best competition at the same time. We've been blown out, due to offensive turnovers and keeping the defense on for far longer than they can handle. It's clear that our defense can beat the best of teams when our offense plays just average. I wonder what this team would be like with an actual dominant offensive unit.

How do we limit turnovers and have a dominant offense? Sign a dominant QB. You may argue that our offense will have less weapons if we spend 35 mill on a QB and 2 linemen. I disagree. We've won 5 games alone this season when we don't turn the ball over. We've had atrocious quality of talent on offense. Atrocious. Geno has 20 turnovers. We could be 8-2 with a QB who just doesn't turn the ****ing ball over.

I'm tired of waiting for some QB to develop. I'm tired of watching the defense play their hearts out and then have Mark or Geno throw the game away.

No more rookie QBs. Sign a young vet. Draft a WR, TE, and RB. If the team feels comfortable with Powell draft 2 WRs this year. Lord knows its a very deep draft in terms of WR. We still have Kerley, Nelson, and Hill. We can sign another vet WR too for relatively cheap. WR's should be replaceable, they are in Seattle and they're fine.

Shore up the line. You need to win the battles in the trenches. Figuring out the line will help even mediocre running backs (like Benjarvus Green Ellis) look dominant. Billal could benefit from a better line in that manner. Protect your QB. Give him time to make accurate throws.

Yes i'm willing to spend 20 mill on Matt Ryan. When was the last time we had a great quarterback? Not in my lifetime. I'm 21. Vinny Testaverde? First 2 years of Chad's career? No more. Sign someone established. Draft a couple of weapons this year. We should be fine.
 
The Jets do have a solid defense but some times I think the fans forget that there are a lot of other solid defenses in the league.

Geno has been terrible but because of their record he probably sticks around while they pass on a decent prospect in a pretty deep qb draft.
 
My Bills looked really good, last night. We have the players, just need the consistency.
 
KreiMeARiver said:
My Bills looked really good, last night. We have the players, just need the consistency.
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Relax. You have a good defensive front, similar to the Jets. But then again you played the Jets offense. Porous offensive line. QB airmailing interceptions to you. Secondary that still hasn't come together. And the Jets weren't prepared at all for that game.

Your secondary isn't particularly strong. QB is suspect like the Jets'. RB's are good. O-Line isn't consistent at all, similar to Jets. WR's not consistent. You'll have good and bad weeks, just like us.

Only difference is you paid big bucks to land fa's like Mario Williams who struggle to stay on the field while we have an influx of capital about to come in to spend on other positions.
 
kenjets36 said:
I disagree. The whole problem with Ryan's team's as Jets HC is the offense's inability to keep team's in a game.

Look at the disparity between wins and losses under his tenure here. Rarely do we blow other teams out but we have the ability to beat the best competition at the same time. We've been blown out, due to offensive turnovers and keeping the defense on for far longer than they can handle. It's clear that our defense can beat the best of teams when our offense plays just average. I wonder what this team would be like with an actual dominant offensive unit.

How do we limit turnovers and have a dominant offense? Sign a dominant QB. You may argue that our offense will have less weapons if we spend 35 mill on a QB and 2 linemen. I disagree. We've won 5 games alone this season when we don't turn the ball over. We've had atrocious quality of talent on offense. Atrocious. Geno has 20 turnovers. We could be 8-2 with a QB who just doesn't turn the ****ing ball over.

I'm tired of waiting for some QB to develop. I'm tired of watching the defense play their hearts out and then have Mark or Geno throw the game away.

No more rookie QBs. Sign a young vet. Draft a WR, TE, and RB. If the team feels comfortable with Powell draft 2 WRs this year. Lord knows its a very deep draft in terms of WR. We still have Kerley, Nelson, and Hill. We can sign another vet WR too for relatively cheap. WR's should be replaceable, they are in Seattle and they're fine.

Shore up the line. You need to win the battles in the trenches. Figuring out the line will help even mediocre running backs (like Benjarvus Green Ellis) look dominant. Billal could benefit from a better line in that manner. Protect your QB. Give him time to make accurate throws.

Yes i'm willing to spend 20 mill on Matt Ryan. When was the last time we had a great quarterback? Not in my lifetime. I'm 21. Vinny Testaverde? First 2 years of Chad's career? No more. Sign someone established. Draft a couple of weapons this year. We should be fine.
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We won 5 games with a mediocre QB, yes. Off the bat though, that "mediocre QB" played extremely well against ATL and Buffalo (the first time), which means there's only 3 more wins you can chalk up to a better QB at the moment.

Lets also keep in mind that we got extremely lucky against TB and NE, so we could very well be 3-7 right now.

You want to pay 20M to Jay Cutler? Who is he going to throw the ball to? Stephen Hill? Quite a bit off from Brandon Marshall. Who is our #2? Greg Salas?

If Geno isn't the answer, we need to find a QB in the draft, or a cheap QB that has potential. The only QB in the last 10 years to win the SB that wasn't drafted by his own team was Drew Brees. The only reason Brees was allowed to go to FA because SD already invested a LARGE amount of money into Rivers. Franchise QBs don't make it to FA. QBs that do are flawed in some way, and as such aren't worth investing 20M a year for.

Chad was one of the best QBs in the league before his shoulder turned into spaghetti squash.
 
Matt4776 said:
We won 5 games with a mediocre QB, yes. Off the bat though, that "mediocre QB" played extremely well against ATL and Buffalo (the first time), which means there's only 3 more wins you can chalk up to a better QB at the moment.

Lets also keep in mind that we got extremely lucky against TB and NE, so we could very well be 3-7 right now.

You want to pay 20M to Jay Cutler? Who is he going to throw the ball to? Stephen Hill? Quite a bit off from Brandon Marshall. Who is our #2? Greg Salas?

If Geno isn't the answer, we need to find a QB in the draft, or a cheap QB that has potential. The only QB in the last 10 years to win the SB that wasn't drafted by his own team was Drew Brees. The only reason Brees was allowed to go to FA because SD already invested a LARGE amount of money into Rivers. Franchise QBs don't make it to FA. QBs that do are flawed in some way, and as such aren't worth investing 20M a year for.

Chad was one of the best QBs in the league before his shoulder turned into spaghetti squash.
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:cry:

Rivers could be on the block. What about Rothlessberger? Bradford?
 
Rivers is having a career year. Doubt he is moved. Ben could be, but Steelers are not far off either.

Geno is a rookie. Most are not ready. Last season is the abbiration. Look at guys like Tannehill in Miami. Much better 2nd season. They have committed to him. Simms should get a look too. Bring in a vet option as well. Bigger competition. Jason Campbell, McCown, etc. Someone who can start and the rooks can learn from. Right now, there is no QB mentor who can push around Geno. David Garrard? He is a mentor but he cannot play anymore. Similar to Brunell/Sanchez.

Young skill players through draft and fill out an oline please.
 
kenjets36 said:
Relax. You have a good defensive front, similar to the Jets. But then again you played the Jets offense. Porous offensive line. QB airmailing interceptions to you. Secondary that still hasn't come together. And the Jets weren't prepared at all for that game.

Your secondary isn't particularly strong. QB is suspect like the Jets'. RB's are good. O-Line isn't consistent at all, similar to Jets. WR's not consistent. You'll have good and bad weeks, just like us.

Only difference is you paid big bucks to land fa's like Mario Williams who struggle to stay on the field while we have an influx of capital about to come in to spend on other positions.
Click to expand...

While I agree that the teams are similar there is some discrepancy between the two. Both D-lines are dominant at times and porous at others. I disagree on the secondary going forward. If we can retain Byrd after this year, you start with him as a premiere player, Gilmore, Mckelvin, Williams, Robey. Thats a pretty strong, young group that will get even better.

Same can be said for the WR. While we have injuries right now, Johnson, Woods, Goodwin, Graham is very talented but inconsistent like you said. I think Woods and Goodwin have a chance to be very very good though.

Consistency with the O-line would be better, imo, if we had a stable QB all year. Not having Manuel and going through what 4 different guys this year really throws things off for the O-line. Every QB has tendencies and to not have the same guy behind you all year can be tough on the O-line. Rbs were set, imo.

As far as QB, while Im not particularly sold on EJ just yet, you cannot deny that at this point in time he is a better QB than Geno. The numbers speak for themselves. 8TD/4INT/3FUM for EJ compared to 8TD/16INT/7FUM for Geno. Neither are exactly lighting it up, but Im much more confident with EJ.

Mario had a tough year last year due to his Wrist problems, but the guy has 11 sacks this year and has stayed healthy. For the presence he brings to the line and the mismatches he creates for guys like Dareus and Kyle Williams, it was money well spent. Not to mention he has looked completely revamped in this new Mike Pettine defense. Speaking of which, Pettine was our best get in years. Guy has completely remade the D.

At the end of the day they are both middle of the pack teams. But as a Bills fan I finally see the team building something, which is nice for a change.

It'll be interesting to see what the Jets spend the money on.
 
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