20-21 Season Tank Thread (MOD WARNING IN OP)

[VNCVR]

When you live in a fantasy land where a first line 29 year old signs for a couple years of course you don’t agree with moving him. Talk about naive.


Please list the core pieces this team has?

Where do you expect the team to finish next season if Benning makes all the right moves?

Sure 2 years is not the likeliest of contracts but to be honest, we don't know the situation 2 years from now. Regardless, I would sign him for longer. 4 years. Whatever can be negotiated. Thats a decision for then. Which is exactly how GMs look at it'

Horvat, Boeser, Pettersson, Miller (hoglander?), Hughes and Demko. I am still high on Demko. Because I am not emotional person who judges things by the day

 

[VNCVR]

I think with our roster THIS damaged, and only Pod as the only good prospect coming up, it is not that crazy to consider options with Miller.

Keeping him works if the team can bolster up for a reasonable chance at the cup within the next two years or so, and to do that we need competent role players who can hold the line. Miller's already quite pissed at this team's current shit show. His emotions justified or not, unless the losing stops now, I can see him requesting a trade within the year. Not only is our role player group underwhelming, defense is also lacking. Unless a GM is a Sith Lord or Steve Yzerman, trying to patch up the team to near-cup status in the next two years and make best use of our players' prime years pushing for a cup feels like a Herculean task.

Why does the team need to trade pieces, what are you trying to fill, might I ask. Hoglander and Podkolzin added to this teams core. What are you missing besides changing the supporting cast some, dumping some contracts and signing a free agent or two?

You’ve been hired as the Canucks’ new GM; what do you do? (read this post of mine)

You’ve been hired as the Canucks’ new GM; what do you do? (also this one, though there is some overlap in content)

You could realistically dump everything on this roster, trade a bunch of picks and have just about every piece you need, at an age where you can be competitive for the next 5 years and longer with some subtraction/addition

 

[VanJack]

I don't get the obsession people have with Tryamkin. If we can get any kind of draft pick for him we should do it. He wasn't that great when he was here, and there's a good chance he never even comes back to Vancouver. He's just tall.

I agree with your other "keeper" list; however, I wouldn't be opposed to moving Horvat given his age and contract status either.

The key trade chip we have is JT Miller. I think we can get a good package back for him and I would explore that option. I would also look to move Schmidt after the expansion draft to a team that loses a key defenseman.

Drowning men will grasp on to anything 'floating in the water' to survive. Right now, Tryamkin is the most promising d-man they have who's just floating out there.

I mean have you watched this Canuck blueline recently? Too slow...too old....too passive....I mean there's a reason why the Canucks are legitimately one of the three worst teams in the league in terms of goals against.

Maybe Tryamkin busts hard.....but he can't be any worse than most of the stiffs they already have.

 

[4Twenty]

Sure 2 years is not the likeliest of contracts but to be honest, we don't know the situation 2 years from now. Regardless, I would sign him for longer. 4 years. Whatever can be negotiated. Thats a decision for then. Which is exactly how GMs look at it'

Horvat, Boeser, Pettersson, Miller (hoglander?), Hughes and Demko. I am still high on Demko. Because I am not emotional person who judges things by the day

4 forwards, a Dman who can’t defend, and a goalie who hasn’t proven a lick?

2 of those forwards will be going into their ufa seasons once beagle, roussel, and Eriksson go away.


Like valkynax said, it’s a big job. Not an easy one.

Not everyone was sold on Demko before the season. Basically nobody was until 3 bubble games. It’s not emotion it’s realism. The most likely scenario is he’s an average starter at best.

 

[VNCVR]

Drowning men will grasp on to anything 'floating in the water' to survive. Right now, Tryamkin is the most promising d-man they have who's just floating out there.

I mean have you watched this Canuck blueline recently? Too slow...too old....too passive....I mean there's a reason why the Canucks are legitimately one of the three worst teams in the league in terms of goals against.

Maybe Tryamkin busts hard.....but he can't be any worse than most of the stiffs they already have.

Tryamkin's upside is more valuable than his trade market value. Peoples memory of him seems to be so cloudy in how they describe him. He was new to the league and looked extremely good and was developing rather well and was handling forwards none of the other d men could. He wasn't a top 4 d man ONLY because he was still raw in some areas but those things were easily ironed out with experience in the league

 

[VNCVR]

4 forwards, a Dman who can’t defend, and a goalie who hasn’t proven a lick?

2 of those forwards will be going into their ufa seasons once beagle, roussel, and Eriksson go away.


Like valkynax said, it’s a big job. Not an easy one.

Not everyone was sold on Demko before the season. Basically nobody was until 3 bubble games. It’s not emotion it’s realism. The most likely scenario is he’s an average starter at best.

2 centers, one of which is being labeled as a possible for team canada olympic team and the other is rated one of the best young players in the league, then you got a player who can play either wing or center and is actually quite good defensively when he's on his game, a top scoring winger who just got his shot back (injury healed) and is near the top of the league in scoring. and one of the best offensive d men in the game and one of the more highly regarded young goalies in the league. It's too hard to argue goaltenders so I wont go there, but there are alot of teams who would love to grab him from us, that's for sure but regardless, that's the easiest position to find a replacement incase the high potential young goaltender doesn't pan out, especially when your team is in one of the more desirable markets.

That's the core of every single good team, minus a #2 d man, which just so happen to go onto the market sometimes, or you trade a high 1st for. So not sure why you say, just 4 forwards and a d man. Also ignoring Hoglander, who is simply a bonus, but appears to have as much upside as most of the players mentioned and seems highly likely to reach there.

Man why are you even a fan of the Canucks ? You can't be if you actually don't see these players for what they are. Not many people don't think the Canucks dont have 95 percent of a core that can compete in the future

 

[4Twenty]

2 centers, one of which is being labeled as a possible for team canada olympic team and the other is rated one of the best young players in the league, then you got a player who can play either wing or center and is actually quite good defensively when he's on his game, a top scoring winger who just got his shot back (injury healed) and is near the top of the league in scoring. and one of the best offensive d men in the game and one of the more highly regarded young goalies in the league. It's too hard to argue goaltenders so I wont go there, but there are alot of teams who would love to grab him from us, that's for sure but regardless, that's the easiest position to find a replacement incase the high potential young goaltender doesn't pan out, especially when your team is in one of the more desirable markets.

That's the core of every single good team, minus a #2 d man, which just so happen to go onto the market sometimes. So not sure why you say, just 4 forwards and a d man. Also ignoring Hoglander, who is simply a bonus, but appears to have as much upside as most of the players mentioned and seems highly likely to reach there.

Man why are you even a fan of the Canucks ? You can't be if you actually don't see these players for what they are. Not many people don't think the Canucks dont have 95 percent of a core that can compete in the future

95% of those folks thought the Canucks improved for this season.

I like those players. Point is you need a lot more than that.


Ps the complaining about my fandom not being like yours (where you disagree with 95% but still support) is lame. Worry about what I say not what you think about me.

 

[xtra]

2 centers, one of which is being labeled as a possible for team canada olympic team and the other is rated one of the best young players in the league, then you got a player who can play either wing or center and is actually quite good defensively when he's on his game, a top scoring winger who just got his shot back (injury healed) and is near the top of the league in scoring. and one of the best offensive d men in the game and one of the more highly regarded young goalies in the league. It's too hard to argue goaltenders so I wont go there, but there are alot of teams who would love to grab him from us, that's for sure but regardless, that's the easiest position to find a replacement incase the high potential young goaltender doesn't pan out, especially when your team is in one of the more desirable markets.

That's the core of every single good team, minus a #2 d man, which just so happen to go onto the market sometimes, or you trade a high 1st for. So not sure why you say, just 4 forwards and a d man. Also ignoring Hoglander, who is simply a bonus, but appears to have as much upside as most of the players mentioned and seems highly likely to reach there.

Man why are you even a fan of the Canucks ? You can't be if you actually don't see these players for what they are. Not many people don't think the Canucks dont have 95 percent of a core that can compete in the future

Hughes isn’t a #1 right now and hasn’t shown the defensive chops that he would ever be the #1. He’s a great offensive dman and possibly the best in the league but if we have to shelter him and keep him away from tough matchups he’s not a #1.

also note that people aren’t saying trade away horvat cause they do want to keep talent they believe will stick with the team once they hit free agency unlike JT Miller who doesn’t seem to be happy this year and is from back east afaik

 

[Beech]

Ottawa Sens fan coming in peace.

TANKING..you guys??????? you had 5-6 poor years. This was suppose to be the "turn the corner" year.

What happened?

 

[geebaan]

Ottawa Sens fan coming in peace.

TANKING..you guys??????? you had 5-6 poor years. This was suppose to be the "turn the corner" year.

What happened?

Jim Benning

 

[ChilliBilly]

Honestly, trade every single player of value and retain money on each one to up the value. Go full blown firesale to surround this core with actual good players, instead of useless whiners and sulkers like Miller (who did this exact same thing by the way, in both Tampa and NY. When the times get tough for JT, he pouts).

Imagine the return for a 50% retained Miller.

Anyone not named Pettersson, Hughes, Hoglander, Podkolzin, Boeser should be jettisoned for as much value as we can because the next 2 years are a write off anyway.

The problem is that there is no one of value other than those named pretty much. Maybe Miller and Virtanen have some value, as does Demko. And do you really think JB is going to make a good trade; history is not on his side. Aqua man should have kicked his ass out of here years ago. You might get a decent value for Schmidt, but I don't think any contending team can handle the salary.

I think we are a better team than our record, but lets face it, this season is pretty much done.

 

[4Twenty]

Ottawa Sens fan coming in peace.

TANKING..you guys??????? you had 5-6 poor years. This was suppose to be the "turn the corner" year.

What happened?

Crappy management- beware!!!!


Drafting is only part of the battle. Cap allocation and roster management is a much larger and More difficult/nuanced part of management.

 

[Hyzer]

Ottawa Sens fan coming in peace.

TANKING..you guys??????? you had 5-6 poor years. This was suppose to be the "turn the corner" year.

What happened?

Jim Benning, year and after, made very poor choices in our roster composition and cap structure. It was sort of under the radar for the main media and most casual fans, but astute fans would only have to take a look at the cap structure of our deals on cap friendly to understand this was inevitable.

Last year was a fluke where we lucked into the playoffs and happened to win a few games. We relied heavily on Vezina level goaltending (which is gone) as well as losing 33% of our defensive corps. We continued to bleed valuable assets for trash and now we're in a place where we have nothing left and we're going to bottom out for 2-3 more years. It's hard to win games when half of our roster is being paid almost 25 million dollars when we can pick up guys on league minimum and they most likely outperform many of these players

Years of ineptitude by a dumb GM has got us to this place, unfortunately, and there's no way out except through a good 'ol fashioned fire sale. Sad, frustrating, and ultimately was an inevitability after the first year we saw Jim Benning's moves. Imagine a GM on his third coach in 7 years and STILL having a job. My god, its infuriating.

 

[Beech]

Jim Benning, year and after, made very poor choices in our roster composition and cap structure. It was sort of under the radar for the main media and most casual fans, but astute fans would only have to take a look at the cap structure of our deals on cap friendly to understand this was inevitable.

Last year was a fluke where we lucked into the playoffs and happened to win a few games. We relied heavily on Vezina level goaltending (which is gone) as well as losing 33% of our defensive corps. We continued to bleed valuable assets for trash and now we're in a place where we have nothing left and we're going to bottom out for 2-3 more years. It's hard to win games when half of our roster is being paid almost 25 million dollars when we can pick up guys on league minimum and they most likely outperform many of these players

Years of ineptitude by a dumb GM has got us to this place, unfortunately, and there's no way out.

you guys were the darling of hockey media/fans in the East. We in Ottawa were at the Bottom. The Habs were sinking like a stone. Toronto was still getting over Babcock. Winnipeg was shaky. (I know not east, close enough).

Now we are puzzled and scared. We in Ottawa were using you guys as a model!!!!!

 

[4Twenty]

you guys were the darling of hockey media/fans in the East. We in Ottawa were at the Bottom. The Habs were sinking like a stone. Toronto was still getting over Babcock. Winnipeg was shaky. (I know not east, close enough).

Now we are puzzled and scared. We in Ottawa were using you guys as a model!!!!!

Obviously you didn’t look very deeply into what was happening out west.

 

[HedonisticAltruism]

I will root for losses unless the following players come up big and give our team wins: Hughes, Pettersson, Hoglander, Horvat, Boeser, Juolevi, Bailey, McEwan, Demko and any prospect with potential that works their ass off.

I will be livid if we get Sutter or Pearson game winners.

I also don't want to see demoralizing losses only because the young core may be negatively impacted.

Nah, you want them to do well to up their trade value... assuming we had a GM who knew how to manage assets that is.

 

[Bojack Horvatman]

Unfortunately I got into a accident and damn near broke my neck which has caused paralysis in my arms and hands making it very difficult to post. No worries though as I'm recovering and expected to be back to 100% soon.

I wish you all the best in your recovery Jack. I had the same thing happen to me after a snowboarding accident. Traction therapy and physio were helpful in lowering the pain and numbness in my hands, and increasing strength.

 

[VNCVR]

95% of those folks thought the Canucks improved for this season.

I like those players. Point is you need a lot more than that.


Ps the complaining about my fandom not being like yours (where you disagree with 95% but still support) is lame. Worry about what I say not what you think about me.

Podkolzin, Hoglander, Pearson, Schmidt, are sufficient support pieces. There are also other depth players on this team that are atleast sufficient at filling lower roles like Macewen, Motte, Juolevi, Tryamkin. The rest can be addressed in a rather short amount of time via picks, trades and free agency. Whether you think Benning is the person is not exactly the argument. It's whether they have what it takes and how soon could they add the rest.

 

[VNCVR]

Hughes isn’t a #1 right now and hasn’t shown the defensive chops that he would ever be the #1. He’s a great offensive dman and possibly the best in the league but if we have to shelter him and keep him away from tough matchups he’s not a #1.

also note that people aren’t saying trade away horvat cause they do want to keep talent they believe will stick with the team once they hit free agency unlike JT Miller who doesn’t seem to be happy this year and is from back east afaik

You say that, when the team lost a ton of players, the goaltending is subpar, the top line players are playing poorly. every d man is playing with a new partner and hughes is asked to carry a #7 d man on one of the worst performing teams in the nhl. He was much better defensively last year, when the team in front of him wasn't a tire fire and no that's not SOLELY because of tanev. But also you should expect to play with a tanev on a top line pairing. As is the case with all top line players, would top line players play worse with Beagle centering them? You saddle top players with garbage and they wont perform to the best of their ability, infact I believe Pettersson couldn't carry a 4th line, he would actually look quite poor , especially if still seeing minutes against high quality lines. There's a difference between needing to be babysat by a better player and needing a respectable partner if youre going to be playing alot of minutes

Also regardless if you agree with that or not. My point was referring to going forward, as I said, players develop VERY quickly. By the end of this year or next year, he could take a big step forward defensively. with players as smart as him, its highly likely. This is a player who puts alot of pride in not being one dimensional, I am nearly certain Hughes is going to be at least average defensively in this league, if not great. No #1 d man should be playing with a new d man pairing who is a #7 d man, especially when youre still developing your defensive game.

 

[Vancouver_2010]

I can't decide the best way for us to lose:

1) getting absolutely trounced and pounded since puck drop
2) getting up something like 3-1 or 5-1 then collapse completely and get scored on 6 times in a row with no response

I want to say 2) is more embarrassing, but us being able to get up to a good lead to start will offer ammo for Benning to spin on.

i say 2) as well, that means there is a great chance at least our young guys are contributing.

 

[Pavel96]

Unfortunately I got into a accident and damn near broke my neck which has caused paralysis in my arms and hands making it very difficult to post. No worries though as I'm recovering and expected to be back to 100% soon.

Wishing you well Jack! Don't worry, we got you!

 

[Pavel96]

Ottawa Sens fan coming in peace.

TANKING..you guys??????? you had 5-6 poor years. This was suppose to be the "turn the corner" year.

What happened?

What are you talking about? Isn't this how elite teams operate? Jim came in right away and turned things around in a hurry (2015)- they made it to the playoffs right off the bat = massive success!

Yeah sure, over the next few years he spent to the cap, traded away draft picks and prospects, and signed big long term deals to useless players, but it eventually led to them "making" the playoffs again last year.

So that's two massive successes over those 5-6 years you mentioned, so really you have to expect that the Canucks would take a step back this year. It's what elite teams do with their young talent on entry level deals!

 

[xtra]

You say that, when the team lost a ton of players, the goaltending is subpar, the top line players are playing poorly. every d man is playing with a new partner and hughes is asked to carry a #7 d man on one of the worst performing teams in the nhl. He was much better defensively last year, when the team in front of him wasn't a tire fire and no that's not SOLELY because of tanev. But also you should expect to play with a tanev on a top line pairing. As is the case with all top line players, would top line players play worse with Beagle centering them? You saddle top players with garbage and they wont perform to the best of their ability, infact I believe Pettersson couldn't carry a 4th line, he would actually look quite poor , especially if still seeing minutes against high quality lines. There's a difference between needing to be babysat by a better player and needing a respectable partner if youre going to be playing alot of minutes

Also regardless if you agree with that or not. My point was referring to going forward, as I said, players develop VERY quickly. By the end of this year or next year, he could take a big step forward defensively. with players as smart as him, its highly likely. No #1 d man should be playing with a new d man pairing who is a #7 d man, especially when youre still developing your defensive game.

Quinn Hughes is not a number 1 right now to answer your first question - he starts almost 69% (last year 58%) of the time in the offensive zone 5on5 and is barely above water on the CF% , and doesn’t play penalty kill.


I don’t know how you can say he’s a number one dman or that he’s shown anything that suggest he could become a number one dman.

I also like how you point out he has to play with benn when in fact he has a plus 2 goal differential with him and is minus or even with everyone else. Hughes is a liability defensively right now that’s not something that can even be argued.

Last year he was on ice for 3.5 ga/60 and this year he is on the ice for 4.3 ga/60. In fact he’s closer to jalen chatfield at 4.9 ga/60 than he is to jordie Benns 3.6 ga/60. In fact you could argue Quinn is bringing down benns defensive play(though we need more data for the pairings overall)

could he develop into something....let’s see but so far he hasn’t shown anything to say he can.

 

[Jack Burton]

I wish you all the best in your recovery Jack. I had the same thing happen to me after a snowboarding accident. Traction therapy and physio were helpful in lowering the pain and numbness in my hands, and increasing strength.

Ya It's tough. I bruised/stretched & inflamed my spinal cord pretty good which is sending some pretty weird signals to the brain. It really is strange having the numbness with pins & needle all throughout the arms and hands.
One good thing though...I love this site and value eveyones opinion regardless of what side of the fence they fall. From @Ginger Papa awesome GDT to @Pastor Of Muppetz hot management takes...you guys and girls have really helped me out by putting a smile on my face when things weren't all that good.
For that I thank all of you.

 

[SamInVan]

Podkolzin, Hoglander, Pearson, Schmidt, is sufficient support pieces. The rest can be addressed in a rather short amount of time via picks, trades and free agency.

Pearson is UFA at the end of the season. So to is B.Sutter who together represent $8m in cap based on current salary.

EP is RFA status and up for a contract that will be in that range.

Now we need a replacement 3C and 2C winger.

Alex Edler is also UFA. Add a top 4 LHD to the list.

Which pieces are you planning on moving? Teams are not exactly lining up to take out our trash.