Post-Game Talk: #18 - 11/12/18 | canucks @ RANGERS | 7:00 - MSG

[Larrybiv]

Yeah, I look at how many young centers end up moving to wing, the weak returns for players like Stastny and Skinner and our crystal-clear cap after Hank + Staal + Shatty's contracts are over and I don't get moving Hayes. I didn't get giving him a one year deal either, but it's probably gonna happen so just deal with it I guess

Now that its becoming more clear to me......even though I TOO do not want to part with Hayes, we "have to" cash in on him, it will provide more youth down the road which helps sustainability, once we get there. I would be "very down" to the idea of re-acquiring him after trading him in off season as we would always have that option to put someone on the wing which "should" strengthen the team quicker come next season while keeping the Howdens, Chytils and Andersons.

One thing that I am not SURE OF, will Hayes play like this "always" moving forward, or is this simply for his upcoming contract? Its a character question mark.

 

[Larrybiv]

Gotta love Quinnie's post games. Blows away Torts anger issues, AV's demonstrative p***y narratives. He's perfectly inbetween, and dances around obvious mistakes he has been making as our new coach. Sometimes asking questions on a question, that he hasn't the obvious answers for. Sometimes you can tell he doesnt "quite say" what he would like to. I guess, good job, he is pretty honest enough and gives us "enough info".

 

[Larrybiv]

Like Washington?

Yes, absolutely perfect fit there......i guess until last season, they eventually got what they wanted and would bet anything they are a flash in the pan, one shot deal from here on out.

We just never got ours, and that is what really burns our asses. Isnt it?

 

[Thordic]

I was a kid, it's a different perspective. When you're 11 years old, these guys could go 0-82, they're still heroes to you.

Now I'm older than half of them.

You're usually cranky enough that I mistook you for someone much older

I kid, I kid. I'm always torn watching these games. I want us to get our shot at Hughes and Kakko as much as everyone but when you watch how hard these guys are working, even if they aren't always playing smart, it's hard to get mad when they pull out the W.

 

[Larrybiv]

The attempted shots after 40 minutes were 30-14. I don't derive any joy from winning games like this, and it'll only hurt us in the long run.

So I guess "in essence" what you are saying is......if we are getting slaughtered in that area, just go ahead and lose the game already........we dont deserve to win. Right?

Yeah, go ahead and tell Hank that. I have more respect for that man now this year, than I have had over the years. It takes quite the person to "lead a team" to victories in which said team really sucks. Right?

 

[Machinehead]

So I guess "in essence" what you are saying is......if we are getting slaughtered in that area, just go ahead and lose the game already........we dont deserve to win. Right?

Yeah, go ahead and tell Hank that. I have more respect for that man now this year, than I have had over the years. It takes quite the person to "lead a team" to victories in which said team really sucks. Right?

I'm not going to tell professionals to not do their job, no. Intentionally losing the game is not what I'm getting at.

 

[Machinehead]

You're usually cranky enough that I mistook you for someone much older

I kid, I kid. I'm always torn watching these games. I want us to get our shot at Hughes and Kakko as much as everyone but when you watch how hard these guys are working, even if they aren't always playing smart, it's hard to get mad when they pull out the W.

No, I said it last night, the boys are very likable.

Even Pionk is a nice kid, even though he drives me f***ing crazy.

 

[Machinehead]

Yes, absolutely perfect fit there......i guess until last season, they eventually got what they wanted and would bet anything they are a flash in the pan, one shot deal from here on out.

We just never got ours, and that is what really burns our asses. Isnt it?

we never got ours because we were never really built for it.

 

[Larrybiv]

I'm not going to tell professionals to not do their job, no. Intentionally losing the game is not what I'm getting at.

Yeah, i know man. You just have a real funny way of personifying a Rangers fan. Hey, we have all got to go through this together, and even though winning isn't really what is "best" per sé for this team, you dont get "any" pleasure in seeing how some of our players are happy about what's going on right now?

 

[Larrybiv]

I nearly died when Howden got crushed into the boards last night. Losing Buch hurts me (wanting him to develop was becoming really fun), had we had to have added Howden to Buch's list, would have compounded that problem. For me, this year is about "enjoyment" with little expectations, just wanna see the Rangers future right now. Seems that Howden is gonna be around a loooong time with this team. Like him so much.

Not sorry to say, that i wouldnt trade Howden and Namestnikov back to Tampa for McD and Miller straight up.
Seems we have made out big time in that deal, and if somehow Tampa can grab that cup......well then, yeah baby!

P.S. Having McD on this team right now, would pretty much guarantee we would be a bubble team and probably deadline "buyers". I'm thrilled at the overhaul that will pretty much be complete come deadline. Hope they're already laying the groundwork. They had better be, and with all this winning they should be looking to move Hayes asap. He is not helping the situation.
The only players that are doing their part is Spoons, McLeod, Lettieri and Shatty. Good job fellas! Lol.

 

[Machinehead]

Yeah, i know man. You just have a real funny way of personifying a Rangers fan. Hey, we have all got to go through this together, and even though winning isn't really what is "best" per sé for this team, you dont get "any" pleasure in seeing how some of our players are happy about what's going on right now?

Ok, I was pretty giddy when Chytil scored.

 

[Larrybiv]

Ok, I was pretty giddy when Chytil scored.

Cool, then i guess youre not so bad. Lol

 

[Machinehead]

Cool, then i guess youre not so bad. Lol

I know I'm a pain in the ass, but I wouldn't get like this if I didn't care.

I love this franchise more than they deserve.

 

[eco's bones]

Do you think there's any combination of the preceding that could land us Nylander from TO?

Not really. Hayes would be a good player for the Leafs IMO but for where he'd slot in their lineup and what he'd cost in term and cap $'s I don't think it's workable. A team that trades for Hayes might want a guarantee that he'll re-sign with them which might make the return problematic. A signed Hayes (whatever that means as far as term and cap) will have a different market value (depending on the team and what they're willing to trade) than a rental Hayes.

For Nylander I suspect Toronto would be looking at multiple players and if they were looking at a vet in the package it would be a legit top 4 d-man and Smith and McQuaid don't quite fit that job description. Unless the Rangers are willing to move some of their top prospects I don't think there's a deal here.

 

[Edge]

Not really. Hayes would be a good player for the Leafs IMO but for where he'd slot in their lineup and what he'd cost in term and cap $'s I don't think it's workable. A team that trades for Hayes might want a guarantee that he'll re-sign with them which might make the return problematic. A signed Hayes (whatever that means as far as term and cap) will have a different market value (depending on the team and what they're willing to trade) than a rental Hayes.

For Nylander I suspect Toronto would be looking at multiple players and if they were looking at a vet in the package it would be a legit top 4 d-man and Smith and McQuaid don't quite fit that job description. Unless the Rangers are willing to move some of their top prospects I don't think there's a deal here.

I think the Rangers ask for Hayes is going to be high, and I think the ask starts with a prospect as the centerpiece more than a pick.

But I am a little concerned that the return might not be as high as some fans believe it will be or should be.

I think Hayes is a good, sometimes very good player. But I think this board views him as a very good/sometimes great player. And so there might be a little disconnect there on market value.

Then you factor in the contract situation, and we having the makings of what could be a bit of a wildcard.

 

[offdacrossbar]

this team is waaaaaayyyyyy better than i thought they would be right now.

yeah yeah reg wins and wins in the skills competition stuff, i get it ... but, and this is scary, we lost to chicago- who fired their cup winning coach, detroit- rebuilding and the kings-tire fire bad. all weak teams. AND WE LOSE.

we win those games- heck 2 of those games, and low and behold we are like top 5 easy in the league.

my point is, this team should suck worse and probably will but right now, we are pretty damn competitive (everyone else pretty much sucks too)

 

[Thirty One]

I think the Rangers ask for Hayes is going to be high, and I think the ask starts with a prospect as the centerpiece more than a pick.

But I am a little concerned that the return might not be as high as some fans believe it will be or should be.

I think Hayes is a good, sometimes very good player. But I think this board views him as a very good/sometimes great player. And so there might be a little disconnect there on market value.

Then you factor in the contract situation, and we having the makings of what could be a bit of a wildcard.

I wonder what his playoff scoring record will do to his value.

 

[Edge]

I wonder what his playoff scoring record will do to his value.

Not sure.

He wasn’t part of that 2014 run, so you can’t sell a team on that, and he was a rookie in the 2015 ECF appearance.

I would just caution that no one should expect a return that is trending into McD territory.

I would expect something maybe in the Nash range, but with the Rangers’ focus being more squarely on a prospect and the pick rounding things out. I would guess that’s probably their goal, though not necessarily their bottom line.

I mean let’s just take a step back for a second and think about this honestly. What would an opposing team realistically deem fair value for a 45 point center heading to UFA status? Even assuming the team wants to sign him long term, what’s the price on that teams bet that he’s mah e more of a 55 point center for the next 4 or 5 years?

I don’t really have a specific answer, but it’s something to think about as a trade possibility draws closer in the next 8 weeks.

 

[Thordic]

Now I'm older than half of them.

You also just made me realize the last Rangers to be older than me were St Louis and Boyle.

 

[Machinehead]

You also just made me realize the last Rangers to be older than me were St Louis and Boyle.

Like my dad always says: "just wait til you're older than the coach."

 

[Thordic]

Like my dad always says: "just wait til you're older than the coach."

Colliton in Chicago is 33. Crazily enough the youngest coach in NHL history was like 26. Forget his name but pretty sure it was the Caps. Paul Maurice was young as hell when he started coaching too.

 

[Larrybiv]

I know I'm a pain in the ass, but I wouldn't get like this if I didn't care.

I love this franchise more than they deserve.

Yeah, and believe you me......I do, and probably most here as well. Maybe, just maybe and finally, just finally they are going about it the right way this time around. We ALL should not be held to "this one will last a lifetime". Was great at the time, but now we all hope that Sam wasn't being prophetic.

 

[McRanger]

I think the Rangers ask for Hayes is going to be high, and I think the ask starts with a prospect as the centerpiece more than a pick.

But I am a little concerned that the return might not be as high as some fans believe it will be or should be.

I think Hayes is a good, sometimes very good player. But I think this board views him as a very good/sometimes great player. And so there might be a little disconnect there on market value.

Then you factor in the contract situation, and we having the makings of what could be a bit of a wildcard.

That's my biggest concern: his upcoming UFA status has makes him more of a rental and less of a keeper to potential buyers.

What sort of buyer is going to be in the market for him? Teams hoping to add a long term core piece or teams needing just a rental? Are we going to end up with a conditional pick triggered by signing?

 

[Edge]

That's my biggest concern: his upcoming UFA status has makes him more of a rental and less of a keeper to potential buyers.

What sort of buyer is going to be in the market for him? Teams hoping to add a long term core piece or teams needing just a rental? Are we going to end up with a conditional pick triggered by signing?

Maybe the Rangers ask for an upper tier (but not blue chip) prospect and a second that turns into a first if he resigns. Round out the deal with a roster piece and/or a mid pick in 2020.

I think the Rangers are probably looking at better, amped version of a Stastny type deal, with the option B being a plus version of a Nash type deal.

 

[will1066]

What do you guys think his (agent's) asking price is going to be?