Post-Game Talk: #17 - 11/10/18 | RANGERS @ blue jackets | 7:00 - MSG

[Deleted member 23124]

To me Hayes is an interseting situation. For some reason I don't trust him with a big contract. No empirical evidence just a gut reaction. Also he should not get more than Mika but is going to get it. Yet he has size and has developed a great all around game. First and a top prospect gets deal done.

I doubt Hayes will ever be the physical player people expect him to be because of his size. But the fact that he was one of the few players who improved DESPITE AV speaks volumes.

I am not surprised by his play this year. If you look at his history here, he has always played better and produced when he played with speedy wingers (Hagelin, Grabs, to name a couple), so it's no surprise that he's been doing so well since Kreider was moved to his line (a move I didn't think would work).

 

[bl02]

This is a bad attitude to have. Everyone wants the same thing, an eventual Stanley Cup, there are just different philosophies on how to get there.

I myself am really torn as to what would be better for this team this season. I think I'm just pretty relaxed with what happens, happens. It's nice to see young kids get a win, but if we lose, whatever.

You're not a better fan because you want them to win every game, nor is he because he wants them to lose every game.

I've learn to respect and understand both sides. To be honest before last season I hated the idea of losing and losing to get the Slight chance of getting a top 3 pick. I understand both sides of wanting to grab a potential elite center or dman vs trying to develop and continue a hard working winning culture with guys like Pionk, ADA, Chytil, LA and Georgie (until if and when Shesty comes over)

 

[bl02]

I look at what Nashville has done with intelligent draft picks and some crafty trades (albeit they drafted Jones at 4 in order to get Johansen). They really don't have an elite player on that team unless I'm missing something? Again I know they haven't won anything and were defeated in the finals by a team that has two elite players but they should be seriously in contention for next few years.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

This is a bad attitude to have. Everyone wants the same thing, an eventual Stanley Cup, there are just different philosophies on how to get there.

I myself am really torn as to what would be better for this team this season. I think I'm just pretty relaxed with what happens, happens. It's nice to see young kids get a win, but if we lose, whatever.

You're not a better fan because you want them to win every game, nor is he because he wants them to lose every game.

It's not a bad attitude to have. If you're going to root against the team for 82 games why put yourself through the agony of watching them and going on the board? Why come to this board and piss in everyone else's corn flakes? I was kind of rooting for losses late last season, keyword LATE.

 

[SML2]

I feel like it's very important to be sellers at TDL. There is the obvious part about getting top return for assets, but there is more. As the young players get shown the way by vets, you then need to move the young players from the sideline roles to the center stage roles. Most GMs and coaches are going, to an extent, respect seniority and veterans and give them the primary roles. When You move incumbents out, the role is then up for grabs and you can see who is going to seize opportunity and who isn't ready. I think this deadline the important thing will be if they believe that winning culture has a good foundation set. If it does, then you may see more than just the usual names on the move. If not, you may see some staying around to help get the group farther along.

 

[will1066]

The tank side of the fan base has it all wrong I think.
The oilers have McDavid and they are not even close to being a cup competitor.
Getting 1OA is no guarantee.
Heck Toronto wasn't a competitor till tavares came over and he didnt do **** with the isles and was a 1OA.
I'll take the wins and a potential playoff run.

Somehow, the narrative has gotten to the point where a 1OA means instant Cup contention/Cup win. Who wouldn't want a generational talent?--yeah, when they can get it realistically. At the same time, Vegas showed you don't need a generational talent to go deep, though that is very special case. On the other hand, it took the Pens both Crosby and Malkin to Cup initially and then later Kessel PLUS guys like Sheary, Guentzel, Hagelin, and yet still a host of others to Cup. Look at how many years and kicks at the can it took Ovi to Cup. And those earlier Caps teams had loads of talented players. It just shows that a bunch of things need to crystallize to make a perfect-storm brew and create the right situation. Non-elite players including goaltenders need to play out of their minds--all at the same time. Vegas beat a stacked Winnipeg team and held an offense that has Laine, Wheeler, and Schiefele to two goals or less in four of five games. The 94 Cup team was STACKED and ALSO had a HUGE supporting crew. Everybody remembers Messier, Leetch, Richter, Graves, and Kovalev. But you also had Zubov, Gilbert, Olcyzk, Anderson, Lowe, Larmer, and a bunch of others. And YET there were in danger of being eliminated SEVERAL times in that run. You need the RIGHT MIX of components, and then those components need to execute AT THE SAME TIME to have any chance at a Cup. We'd be lucky if that were to happen here.

 

[HatTrick Swayze]

Somehow, the narrative has gotten to the point where a 1OA means instant Cup contention/Cup win. Who wouldn't want a generational talent?--yeah, when they can get it realistically. At the same time, Vegas showed you don't need a generational talent to go deep, though that is very special case. On the other hand, it took the Pens both Crosby and Malkin to Cup initially and then later Kessel PLUS guys like Sheary, Guentzel, Hagelin, and yet still a host of others to Cup. Look at how many years and kicks at the can it took Ovi to Cup. And those earlier Caps teams had loads of talented players. It just shows that a bunch of things need to crystallize to make a perfect-storm brew and create the right situation. Non-elite players including goaltenders need to play out of their minds--all at the same time. Vegas beat a stacked Winnipeg team and held an offense that has Laine, Wheeler, and Schiefele to two goals or less in four of five games. The 94 Cup team was STACKED and ALSO had a HUGE supporting crew. Everybody remembers Messier, Leetch, Richter, Graves, and Kovalev. But you also had Zubov, Gilbert, Olcyzk, Anderson, Lowe, Larmer, and a bunch of others. And YET there were in danger of being eliminated SEVERAL times in that run. You need the RIGHT MIX of components, and then those components need to execute AT THE SAME TIME to have any chance at a Cup. We'd be lucky if that were to happen here.

I agree but I see it as exactly why drafting an elite player is so important. So many things need to go right in any given year, that you need to work around a window and not any one given year. And having an elite cost controlled player for their entire prime is the best way to open up a lengthy window. You fill in semi-aggressively in trade and UFA once you have a centerpiece and supporting cast in place that is cost controlled.

 

[Rempe73]

Why do you have such little faith that we can be the outlier ?

You’re right, but look at the Cup-winning teams in recent memory. They have all drafted high, and have had game-changing players.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

I agree but I see it as exactly why drafting an elite player is so important. So many things need to go right in any given year, that you need to work around a window and not any one given year. And having an elite cost controlled player for their entire prime is the best way to open up a lengthy window. You fill in semi-aggressively in trade and UFA once you have a centerpiece and supporting cast in place that is cost controlled.

This.

It's why Washington was finally able to break through. They had been in the conversation for almost every season over the last decade.

Us? Our window was all of 4 seasons.

But hey, who needs to set them selves up for the best chance to win when you can become a perennial first round punching bag?

 

[SnowblindNYR]

This.

It's why Washington was finally able to break through. They had been in the conversation for almost every season over the last decade.

Us? Our window was all of 4 seasons.

But hey, who needs to set them selves up for the best chance to win when you can become a perennial first round punching bag?

So are you sitting there for 82 games rooting for the Rangers to lose?

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

So are you sitting there for 82 games rooting for the Rangers to lose?

I'd rather they lose but I'm okay with "good" wins.

Wins like yesterday and the one against Buffalo last week? I'm not okay with those - You get nothing out of those games except a few points in the standings and a bunch of cliches from the players in post game interviews.

It's a long season and things even out over time (I've said it a half dozen time, if they continue to play they've been playing they're going to be in the bottom 3 in no time) but these points in games where they have no business getting anything is annoying. It's like they can't get out of their own way.

 

[darko]

I look at what Nashville has done with intelligent draft picks and some crafty trades (albeit they drafted Jones at 4 in order to get Johansen). They really don't have an elite player on that team unless I'm missing something? Again I know they haven't won anything and were defeated in the finals by a team that has two elite players but they should be seriously in contention for next few years.

I'd argue that PK is elite.

 

[kovazub94]

This team was never going to be bad enough to land Hughes or Kakko (unless we get super lucky in the lottery). Been saying all preseason that this team isn't bad enough to finish bottom-5.

Yup, same thoughts over the summer, one condition was a health of the top guys on the team. I don’t see why the current trend wouldn’t continue and so the Rangers will earn their share of both 1-pointers and 2-pointers which in this scoring system will keep them away from the bottom.

 

[bl02]

I'd argue that PK is elite.

Fair enough. I would say he's very good not elite. Would even say I would take Josi over him. They are both tremendous Dmen for sure.

 

[kovazub94]

Yeah I was wrong on Names. He's played well lately.

Have you noticed how posts about Gorton losing McDonagh / Miller trade virtually completely disappeared? The last 5-6 games we are seeing a player that they traded for.

 

[kovazub94]

Names is a good two-way player who was misused by av and at first by Quinn. Its hard to go from Stamkos and Kucherov to a 4th liner on a rebuilding team and not see a drop in play. But since hes back on a top line he has looked really good

Nope, this time around Namestnikov did well on the 4th line that gradually earned him incrementally bigger roles and he was succeeding in each. Namestnikov earned his current role just as earlier he “earned” being a 4th liner and then a healthy scratch.

 

[darko]

Have you noticed how posts about Gorton losing McDonaugh / Miller trade virtually completely disappeared? The last 5-6 games we are seeing a player that they traded for.

Howden helped silence those critics too.

 

[FireGerardGallant]

Have you noticed how posts about Gorton losing McDonaugh / Miller trade virtually completely disappeared? The last 5-6 games we are seeing a player that they traded for.

You should check the main boards, they still think its a fleecing

 

[FireGerardGallant]

Nope, this time around Namestnikov did well on the 4th line that gradually earned him incrementally bigger roles and he was succeeding in each. Namestnikov earned his current role just as earlier he “earned” being a 4th liner and then a healthy scratch.

I still don't agree with the idea of putting players on the 4th line as a punishment to earn more minutes, but I gotta say I was skeptical about him scratching players but it has worked out great so far. Tony D, Buch and Names have all been great since being scratched

 

[kovazub94]

And now we’re back on the opposite end of the spectrum and talking about playoffs and runs.

Actually the only poster who mentioned playoffs is a tanker guy.

 

[kovazub94]

Howden helped silence those critics too.

100%

 

[kovazub94]

You should check the main boards, they still think its a fleecing

You lost me at “main boards”.

 

[will1066]

I still don't agree with the idea of putting players on the 4th line as a punishment to earn more minutes, but I gotta say I was skeptical about him scratching players but it has worked out great so far. Tony D, Buch and Names have all been great since being scratched

Why does it have to be seen as punishment? Why can't it be interpeted as motivation? Quinn has to be framing these benchings and scratches differently that they are returning to the lineup with renewed purpose

 

[kovazub94]

When Zuke returns I actually want Spooner to sit and keep McLeod over him.

 

[Miamipuck]

You should check the main boards, they still think its a fleecing

As of now, anyone that thinks that is patently an idiot.