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Prospect Info: 12th Overall 2024 Draft, LHD Zeev Buium

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Wabit said:
1C, top-4 LD and RD those are the 3 roster holes (not counting goalie). So really it's one thing of greater importance.
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The 3?

Kaprizov - X - Boldy
X - Eriksson Ek - X
X - Rossi - Hartman
Foligno - X - X

X - Faber
Brodin - Spurgeon
Middleton - X

X
Gustavsson

Those are the holes in this lineup
 
Dr Jan Itor said:
+ 1 to 2 more top 6 wingers, depending on your view of Hartman.
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You can hide a weaker wing when there is already a strong center and wing on a line. MN has been trying to hide a weak center in the top-6 for their entire existence outside of a couple years of Staal/Koivu.

top-6:
Kap/1C/Zucc(Rossi)
Boldy/JEE/Rossi(Zucc)

Bottom-6 (some combo of):
Ohgren/Hartman/Foligno
Laukk/Trenin/12FWD (whoever takes the spot, lots of options)

Upgrade a wing if needed at the TDL.

AKL said:
The 3?

Kaprizov - X - Boldy
X - Eriksson Ek - X
X - Rossi - Hartman
Foligno - X - X

X - Faber
Brodin - Spurgeon
Middleton - X

X
Gustavsson

Those are the holes in this lineup
Click to expand...

Kap/x/Zucc(Rossi)
Boldy/JEE/Rossi(Zucc)
Ohgren/Hartman/Foligno
Lauko/Trenin/12FWD (whoever takes the spot, lots of options)

x/Faber
Brodin/x
Middleton/BoGo
 
Wabit said:
Kap/x/Zucc(Rossi)
Boldy/JEE/Rossi(Zucc)
Ohgren/Hartman/Foligno
Lauko/Trenin/12FWD (whoever takes the spot, lots of options)

x/Faber
Brodin/x
Middleton/BoGo
Click to expand...

Zuccarello in the top six is a hole. Rossi isn't a winger. Hartman is. Foligno is a fourth liner. Lauko, Trenin are here today, gone tomorrow players. Same with Bogosian.

The idea is that Ohgren, Yurov, Khusnutdinov, etc fill some of those holes, but by the time they adequately fill those holes, players like Hartman, Middleton, Kaprizov, Spurgeon, Brodin might or will be gone. Bogosian and Zuccarello will definitely be gone.

Our long term core is Kaprizov (if he stays), Boldy, Ek, Rossi, Faber, and then Ohgren, Yurov, Buium if they make it. Everything else is a hole.
 
AKL said:
The 3?

Kaprizov - X - Boldy
X - Eriksson Ek - X
X - Rossi - Hartman
Foligno - X - X

X - Faber
Brodin - Spurgeon
Middleton - X

X
Gustavsson

Those are the holes in this lineup
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Pretty much. And we probably need 2 the X's in the top 6 to better than Eriksson Ek, and possibly the one next to Faber to be better than Faber.
 
Keep coming in here expecting Zeev Buium talk and see bickering. Our board sucks sometimes lol. Wonder if other teams do this.
 
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P10p said:
Keep coming in here expecting Zeev Buium talk and see bickering. Our board sucks sometimes lol. Wonder if other teams do this.
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I think Zeev does fill a top-4 d-man spot sometime in the near future. I want him to sign before the season starts and be on the 3rd pair with BoGo.

Topics wander on all the boards. The mods can move/delete them if they want, but that is needless work for them and gets people butthurt.
 
Dr Jan Itor said:
So is half of the top 6. And the entirety of the net.

I'll take Spurgeon in his spot over Zucc and Fleury (and last year's Gus) in theirs any day.
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This is a thread about a defenseman… hence why the topic is around defense.
TaLoN said:
This discussion should probably continue in the general thread, we've gotten way off topic
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The discussion was plenty fine until what-about-isms came into play.
 
Digitalbooya said:
He’s not a top 4 guy on a contender. Him being in our top 4 is not a good thing.
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I think that you are overestimating how many good Dmen there are in the league. Most 2nd pairing D have flaws in their game, especially #4's. Middleton is solid, but just has slow feet, though by no means the slowest in the league. No genius with the puck, but he scored 25 points last year- that's damn good.

Look at the D that were being trotted out for EDM and FLA, two SC finalists. Nurse and Ceci were hilariously bad at times, Ekblad is a shadow of his former self, and has been for years. Same with OEL. Then there is Kulikov, the guy we benched during the playoffs, etc..

Digitalbooya said:
Brodin-Spurgeon is also a problem (too soft). So if Buium is top pair, the Spurgeon problem still persists.
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Brodin is considered by most hockey observers to be certainly a top 5 defensive Dman, and by some metrics, the best, in the league. Now he's not physical enough? It's like you're not happy with your Porsche because you can't carry sheets of plywood in it.
 
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Digitalbooya said:
Brodin-Spurgeon is also a problem (too soft). So if Buium is top pair, the Spurgeon problem still persists.
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Spurgeon has 3 years left and Buium is going back to Denver for one of those.

They'll be on the same team for 2 years, and I wouldn't etch Buium in stone on the top pair quite yet (he'll be 2 years behind Faber in that regard).

I also don't agree that a "Spurgeon Problem" exists, so I'm not too worried about a Brodin/Faber, Buium/Spurgeon top 4, pending how Spurgeon looks coming back from a year-canceling injury. Team scoring in the playoffs is much more of a factor than him individually.
 
57special said:
I think that you are overestimating how many good Dmen there are in the league. Most 2nd pairing D have flaws in their game, especially #4's. Middleton is solid, but just has slow feet, though by no means the slowest in the league. No genius with the puck, but he scored 25 points last year- that's damn good.

Look at the D that were being trotted out for EDM and FLA, two SC finalists. Nurse and Ceci were hilariously bad at times, Ekblad is a shadow of his former self, and has been for years. Same with OEL. Then there is Kulikov, the guy we benched during the playoffs, etc..


Brodin is considered by most hockey observers to be certainly a top 5 defensive Dman, and by some metrics, the best, in the league. Now he's not physical enough? It's like you're not happy with your Porsche because you can't carry sheets of plywood in it.
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Middleton was on the ice for the most 5v5 goals against for the entire team. His goals against per 60 is the worst by far of the guys that actually matter. His per 60 numbers were only better than Maroon, Addison, and Walker. Is that acceptable for someone who’s best attributes are geared towards the defensive zone?

Russo has literally commented that the Wild management group is not happy that Brodin plays extremely soft. Surely you can see it and comment objectively on that?

Dr Jan Itor said:
Spurgeon has 3 years left and Buium is going back to Denver for one of those.

They'll be on the same team for 2 years, and I wouldn't etch Buium in stone on the top pair quite yet (he'll be 2 years behind Faber in that regard).

I also don't agree that a "Spurgeon Problem" exists, so I'm not too worried about a Brodin/Faber, Buium/Spurgeon top 4, pending how Spurgeon looks coming back from a year-canceling injury. Team scoring in the playoffs is much more of a factor than him individually.
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It’s less than a year. Buium is going to make the team at the end of the year.
 
Would be immensely curious as to what the proposed solution would be to the "Brodin-Faber, Buium-Spurgeon problem". If it were easy to swap Spurgeon and Brodin for guys who are bigger and stronger and tougher and better, every team would do it.

So great, you've identified Middleton, Spurgeon and Brodin as the problem, what's the solution?
 
AKL said:
Would be immensely curious as to what the proposed solution would be to the "Brodin-Faber, Buium-Spurgeon problem". If it were easy to swap Spurgeon and Brodin for guys who are bigger and stronger and tougher and better, every team would do it.

So great, you've identified Middleton, Spurgeon and Brodin as the problem, what's the solution?
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:laugh::laugh:
 
Brodin - Faber
Buium - RD
Middleton - Spurgeon

If Faber is the player we think he is, then a Brodin/Faber pair is fine. Brodin's problem was Dumba's almost dead weight.

Middleton/Spurgeon is an overqualified 3rd pair, somewhat annoying in what they make for that role, but that's nullified by ELC's elsewhere (Buium, Yurov, Ohgren, maybe Heidt) and Spurgeon's contract soon-to-be ending.

If Buium is the prospect we think he is, then we just need to find a fine 2nd pair RD that compliments him skillset-wise.

And to be clear, I don't think Spurgeon is a 3rd pair defenseman, just putting him there to appease the anti's. I don't have any problem with him playing with Buium (pending how he looks post-injury).

2025-26
Kaprizov - Yurov (ELC) - Zuccarello
Heidt (ELC) - Eriksson Ek - Boldy
Ohgren (ELC) - Rossi ($?) - Hartman
Foligno - Khusnuts ($?) - Trenin
Gaudreau

Brodin - Faber ($?)
Buium (ELC) - Mystery RHD ($?)
Middleton - Spurgeon
Bogosian

Gustavsson
Wallstedt ($?)

Give Faber $9M, Khusnutdinov and Wallstedt $2.5M each (probably high), and a $92.5M salary cap, and that's ~$11.2M for Rossi, a RHD in UFA, and bonuses.
 
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Dr Jan Itor said:
So 2 years + ~3 games then.
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Playoffs.
AKL said:
Would be immensely curious as to what the proposed solution would be to the "Brodin-Faber, Buium-Spurgeon problem". If it were easy to swap Spurgeon and Brodin for guys who are bigger and stronger and tougher and better, every team would do it.

So great, you've identified Middleton, Spurgeon and Brodin as the problem, what's the solution?
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The first step is identifying that it is a problem. Which, in case you couldn’t tell from the backlash, is clearly not agreed upon. Sounds like most of you are just peachy with how it is currently set up. I’m not.

It is not that each individually is a huge problem. It is the collective. It’s that you have two soft players (Spurge+Brodin) in the top 4 and that they just locked in a guy who shouldn’t be top 4 for the next 5 years (Middleton).

It’s like the vet contracts handed out last year. Each individually is probably fine, but as a collective it is terrible management of the situation.

The solution would have been trading for guys that better fit what we need or finding UFA dmen who can fill the spot or maybe giving a guy like Spacek a 10 game sample to see what he’s got.
 
Digitalbooya said:
The solution would have been trading for guys that better fit what we need or finding UFA dmen who can fill the spot or maybe giving a guy like Spacek a 10 game sample to see what he’s got.
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Who were your trade targets? Who were your UFA targets?

Brodin has an NMC through this upcoming year, and Spurgeon had one through last year. What was your method of moving them off of the team?
 
Dr Jan Itor said:
Who were your trade targets? Who were your UFA targets?

Brodin has an NMC through this upcoming year, and Spurgeon had one through last year. What was your method of moving them off of the team?
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Dumba for 1-2 years or big Z for free agents.

I’m not looking to move Brodin. I’m good with him being the one soft player in the top 4. Spurgeon on the 3rd pair until we can offload his contract.

In the case of Dumba, to end this upcoming year:

Brodin-Dumba
Buium-Faber
Middleton-Spurgeon
 
I don't think you're allowed to throw stones anymore if your big plan A was Dumba and your plan B is Spacek
 
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