Guadana
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Arseniy Pleaser Gritsyuk. Hope My3sons will be satisfied.
Prospect Info: #129 Arseny Gritsyuk RW
- Thread starter Emperoreddy
- Start date
Ripshot 43
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- Jul 21, 2010
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He can't be making that much money there if he still has to do stuff like that for money...
beekay414
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Guadana
Registered User
This is Gritsyuk`s subscriptionsin in instagram. Rotenberg is a coach and director of SKA.
It`s a good news. SKA use forechecking strategy and they have really great coaches and physical coaches. Gritsyuk should leave SKA as a better 200-foot player.
Of couse, it`s a rumor still. You can find a couple of familiar names.
beekay414
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Guadana
Registered User
It`s a political question. If everything will stand the same - he will come after his new deal with his new team will end. I told about it a lot. If things will change in the world, than we will understand it without questions on board.
- Dec 20, 2018
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They might be negligible because no one is pushing for it.
The team might be more than fine with him coming over after a 2 year contract as a more finished product.
If he signed a 2 year deal he would come over at 24.
For comparison, notable KHL players’ age during their 1st NHL season:
Kaprizov 23
Panarin 24
Mikheyev 25
Barabanov 26
Kuzmenko 26
AGM MacKinnon mentioned Kaprizov’s and Kuzmenko’s ability to come over and immediately play in the top 6.
I doubt Gritsyk needs two more years in the KHL but if the Devils brass doesn’t want have him do player development over here then he could use another KHL season.
He won’t have that much runway when he comes over, there’s an argument for not rushing him.
I don't know much about the KHL but isn't SKA a powerhouse team? could joining them mean less minutes for Grits?
Guadana
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It mean he should play active forecheck in all three zones. SKA is very structured and good coached team.
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I know theres the chance that Gritsyuk can perform right away if he came over around 2025 - but I gotta be honest, the odds of that are small and he would take until near UFA status to work himself out in the A if necessary
I was big on this guy but the closer we get to 2024 the more Im out on him - his value is best now in a trade, not him continuing to sign more KHL contracts until hes practically a UFA after his first season
Guadana
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You understand nothing. His value is rising only, he as more ready product is more valuable for a team, as a good ready pro on elc deal on contending team, we own his rights forever until he will not play his elc to the end. He is only 22. Even four years deal put him in position of Kuzmenko.
And our top six isn’t ready project - we still didn’t sign Bratt and Meier, and one winger slot is open anyway. We have huge actual example of Kuzmenko - Vancouver signed top-3 level winger in his prime only for 5 mil for 2 more years. 39 goals and 74 points. Having only Half of Kuzmenko will be huge. So your impatience remains solely your personal subjective impatience.
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No I understand perfectly - and my impatience isnt merely 'wow hes not coming over? Get rid of him' - its shared by every team in the league, draft by draft
If he signs another two year deal and it ends at 24, you think the Devils are gonna have space for him? And if not, you really think he'll come over to sign in the AHL? He most definitely will not
And you list Vancouver signing Kuzmenko - they f***ing suck, of course hed get playing time there. And he went undrafted. The Devils by 2025-26 will be major contenders, if not possibly the best team in the NHL; that isnt a roster you insert a KHL rookie into whos never played on NA ice. Look what happened to Chicago (and Panarin was 2-3x the player)
Sorry but this is exactly why some Russians get a bad name in the draft. They stay over in the K for 4-6 years and then come over with little NA experience and immediately need a contract two years after their rookie debut in their prime ages. Its almost never a clean situation (neither Panarin wasnt and Kaprizov wasnt, the two best players for this example)
My impatience is based on the reality that has been KHL players for over a decade now. Mukhamadullin is so far outside the norm and is a player who was clearly willing to do whatever it took to get over to NA
If Gritsyuk takes the high road and is willing to spend a year or so in the A, then by all means let em take his time. But I highly doubt thatll happen given his pedigree since his draft day and historically what happens with Russian forwards coming over at 24. And Im not losing a prospect of his caliber for nothing so if that means trading him so be it
Guadana
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I`m not in a good mood today.
Again - it`s your only problmes and expectations.
It`s only your own problems, boy.
May be you are not alone and you are sharing it with someone, even if don`t know about it - it`s not how things are going. Having Gritsyuk now is a huge advantage - he can develop his game in the second best league and join contending Devils team as ELC player. Having it from the 5th round pick is a big luck. You may not believe it, you may disagree with it, but it's the way it is.
Yes, He is ELC player. You can use him as top-6 or even as 3rd line player.
Imagine having Kuzmenko on a good team for three years only for 900k, 5 mil, 5 mil. If he isn`t that good THAN ---->
I don`t care about name on the draft. You can call them whatever you want. You live in a free country. Gritsyuk was drafted, he is our prospect. It does change nothing. Its a player from 5th round. You can draft players with good names and have nothing from them. Vancouver, Minnesota and even Chicago(who didn`t draft Panarin) had(and have) a lot from their players from what they spent.
Again - it`s your only problmes and expectations.
Yes - it is reality and you still can`t accept it. It`s your own personal problem. If some have the same - it`s the problem of people who can`t accept reality. If team drafting Russian player with high risk high ceiling - in the good case they have very good top-9\top-6\top-3\star player for one two years on elc and than sign him. Kuzmenko deal looks like a steal, even Kaprisov deal looks like a steal, Columbus`s Panarin`s deal was a steal. If you still have a problem with it - it`s only your problem. We spent 5th round pick for Gritsyuk. Good luck with your controlled NA 5th rounders.
What? Why he should do that? He is playing now in more competent league against much better teams in significant role. He isn`t junior player anymore who should work on many sides of his game. He will not gonna play in AHL because he doesn`t needs to. FOr his development it`s WAY MORE BETTER to play a couple of years in KHL and work on his two way game than playing run&gun AHL hockey. Again, if you don`t understand something and you have wrong expectations ->
It`s only your own problems, boy.
May be you are not alone and you are sharing it with someone, even if don`t know about it - it`s not how things are going. Having Gritsyuk now is a huge advantage - he can develop his game in the second best league and join contending Devils team as ELC player. Having it from the 5th round pick is a big luck. You may not believe it, you may disagree with it, but it's the way it is.
- Dec 20, 2018
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What you going on about here?
Here’s what the AGM Dan MacKinnon said about Gritsyuk. link
I based what I wrote on what he said.
We won’t need him in 2 years? Citation needed.
You don’t insert guys into top contending rosters? Are you a pre-salary cap Detroit Red Wings fan who recently traveled here via a time machine? Have you looked at the line-ups all the playoff teams running out?
Other teams made a pitch for Kuzmenko, including playoff teams, there was plenty of demand for him. So this “well, sure, he was good enough so Vancouver” *turns up nose* is just goofy.
“And look what happened to Chicago” with Panarin? They got an absolute stud on a 2 year ELC for free? And then signed him to a 2 year/6M deal and then traded him for a bunch of stuff.
It’s highly unlikely Gritsyuk will need to go to the AHL after marinating in the KHL for 2 more years, that’s the point of doing these.
I do think much older players have drawbacks. Kuzmenko only had one year ELC that led directly to UFA because he was 26. Gusev was 27.
I would prefer 23 but 24 isn’t terrible. And how does the history of Russian players, excluding those who played Canadian juniors, show that guys who come later fare worse?
This is a list of players who came later:
Kaprizov 23, Panarin 24, Mikheyev 25, Barabanov 26 and Kuzmenko 26.
Vs guys like Dadonov coming over at 20, playing in NA for 3 years then leaving and then coming back at 28?
There are drawbacks to the rights of all types of players, we only still have his rights (and will for awhile) because there’s no transfer agreement between the NHL and Russia.
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Well I dont wanna make your bad day any worse so Ill just lead with saying Im only speaking about Gritsyuk specifically and Im not in any way trying to rile you or any other Russians up. Ive always appreciated your posts on Gritsyuk since we got him as well as other prospects, youve been quite active there
I have no issue with Gritsyuk as a player nor him being in the KHL. Whatever leads to him becoming a better talent for the NHL one day, thats the right move. And we hold his rights indefinitely.
Im only thinking in what I find to be a realistic manner in the sense that our top-9 (with the optimistic assumption that Bratt and Meier sign) for the foreseeable future already consists of; 1) Hischier 2) Hughes 3) Bratt 4) Meier 5) Mercer and a far stretch for 6)Holtz/Boqvist
That leaves Haula, Tatar, and Palat as the current guys who are questionable at best. Though we are only talking two years. And once you add in any outside acquisitions over two years; its not leaving a ton of space.
Gristyuk would have to really shine in order to make the team right away with as little (or none?) NA ice experience. Simon Nemec is on record saying how crucial and difficult it is to learn the NA game and adjust to the smaller sheet, and I think we can all agree Nemec is a far more pedigree'd prospect than Gritsyuk is (even though hes a stud in his own right)
Im not against Gritsyuk making the team either; Ive watched a number of videos on him andI like his game in todays NHL. Do I think he can make the team right away? Sure why not, I saw Jesper Bratt make it at 19 so I cant possibly say he couldnt. And they may even give him that chance automatically based on his KHL resume. But if were the #1 Eastern contender or NHL team? If were tight on cap hes awesome to have but thats a roster spot from a vet for a team probably hitting on deadline deals.
Im all for whatever happens - a trade, a signing and AHL time, or a signing and NHL time. I just dont know if its all that realistic to assume so with how stacked we already are; and thats with numerous assets to play with for another trade or two plus free agency.
I just wish Gritsyuk, and many other Russian prospects, would try to come over earlier to better their chances. ButI also respect the desire to stay home and make good money. Im not trying to piss anyone off - im just stating the difference of him coming up now versus 2025-2026
@Guttersniped i reckon my long answer here can apply to most of what you ask. Games starting soon but maybe Ill tackle your post as well later, depends how things go probably lmao
Guadana
Registered User
Ok sorry, I was too harsh. There were some people in topic who doesn`t like him as a player just because, and in general, I am very complimentary about the players and prospects of the Devils.
If we talk about potential top-6, we don`t know how things whill going. Mercer could start third center role, Meier is playing third line driver role. Someone could be traded, someone could be injured. And I don`t think that Tatar is a part of the core after 2 years. I don`t think that if Gritsyuk is good enough to play top-6 role, Palat, Haula or Tatar will stop him in coaches\gm`s eyes. And cap will not be a problem with his ELC. It`s adventage to have NHL ready player on 900K deal. If he will earn big new deal after - it`s a good problem to have - sign him or trade him.
When you are comparing Gritsyuk with Nemec you are making a lot of mistakes. They are different players, they play absolutely different roles, they play in different champs - slovaks champs is good development league for 17-18 yo players, AHL is a good development league for 18-21 yo players, KHL is a tough competition for young players and second best league overall. They are of different size and different talent from the beggining, Gritsyuk wasn`t top-6 on the draft and he has his own development curve.
It`s very realistic. If he is good enough right from the start - he will replace any bottom player. But it`s a question of 1-2 years away from now. Bratt and Meier will get new deals or will be traded, may be new deal of Luke will be on the horizon, Devils should be under the cap and good bootom line players should be luxury. 900K NHL ready player is what the doctor ordered.
Overall Russian prospect is what all contenders need, because you can develop players without losing his rights and you can Sign_not him whatever time you need for. And if player is good and ready - bams - you have addition from the air for nothing - Gritsyuk was drafted only by 5th pick. You will see how Carolina will use it soon.
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- Dec 20, 2018
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I don’t see our top being so full of talent that there won’t be a spot for him and his low cap hit will be a huge selling point. (And Tatar will be gone after two years for sure, probably Haula too. Line-ups change all the time and we don’t know how.)
The KHL don’t play on international rinks and Nemec is an 18 year old coming from a significantly worse league.
So that’s not an issue.
Some Russian players come over to play juniors and those usually start earlier. 1st round picks obviously get signed as soon as possible.
But “Rights Until 27” means you have time you can use to your advantage with later picks.
Outside of top picks, it seems like the Russian players who come over are lower end young guys who aren’t getting much opportunity in the KHL team systems and decide to take a (long shot) chance at making it in the NHL.
Gritsyuk broke out at home, he didn’t need to break rocks in the AHL.
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Depending on what he is look for money wise, but I think we need to take advantage of the opportunity here.
- May 8, 2010
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I don’t think it’s impossible at all that Arseni cracks the lineup next season.
Ya, he's 22, he's been pretty good in the KHL, if we legit think he can be a player, then this looks like a great time to give it a go.
- May 8, 2010
- 22,086
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He could very good 3rd line depth. Maybe he can slot in the top-6 when needed.
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