Sportsnet: “All bets are off” in regards to Babcock

[JT AM da real deal]

That is the reality of the situation..

Babcock is currently the buffer & shield scapegoat between Dubas and his own job.

Dubas lottery protected Leafs traded 1st round pick because he recognized based on his player personnel decisions and cap management issues that we would be here. Planning to potentially pick in the top 10 does not equate to believing your building a Cup competitive team but rather a non playoff outcome is quite possible.

What happens in Dubas changes coaches now with Leafs just on the outside of the playoffs presently and the results with a rookie coach make the results even worse rather than better? All the focus now turns to the GM and his job performance since you already tried the coaching change without getting positive results.

Leafs spent themselves into to Cap Hell and that is a GM issue not a coaching problem. Once successful teams like Hawks and Kings now with multiple double digit AAV players are regular non playoff teams because those high-end salaries don't all teams to ice cup competitive teams. Dubas knows that very well.

So Dubas has to be patient to remove his shield, and hope Babcock can turn this around or fall completely out of contention first. .So if he does need to make a coaching change it has to be after the season is lost essentially because then Keefe's results are masked by a no win situation position and you get another chance next year and second chance.

All true. This has to be a Shanny decision. The big man has to step up. He will.

 

[CelticDruid]

Haskol ran his D into the ground before he got canned. Is Haskol's system part of the problem?

Seems like we are taking a lot of shots from the point and our D just collapses around the net, but no one knows who to box out.

We look like headless chickens.

 

[Carltons Cup]

Team has sucked since the end of December. That doesn't correspond at all with when everyone has gotten "paid." It does correspond though with when Babs stopped moaning after every game that the team was playing the wrong way (but winning) and started saying that he liked what the team was doing (even though they were losing - but losing Babs' way).

Nylander was the first to get paid when he returned right before December 1st. They started sucking ever since that point. For what its worth..

 

[BlueForever75]

Firing Babcock would be a huge mistake. Not his fault that:

1) He had 9 new regulars in his lineup due to a top heavy salary cap
2) That Dermott, Hyman, Tavares, Marner, Kerfoot and Moore have all been injured at different times this season
3) That the Leafs had the worst schedule in entire NHL the first quarter of the season with 4 back to backs.
4) That the GM let go of the wrong backup goalie 2 seasons ago, and they don't have the cap to acquire a solid backup

Firing Babcock would be a copout for Dubas. Dubas is to blame for the contracts and cap, hes to blame for the backup goalie situation, and hes to blame for the type of players he acquired for Babcocks style of hockey. But yet everyone is calling for Babcock's head. Its plain stupid.

If I were Babcock, I would let the Leafs play their style of game to show up Dubas as Dubas has put Babcock in a position to fail. They will also fail playing their style of hockey as well cause you cannot win a cup that way.

 

[Walshy7]

No chance the Ducks are trading Manson.

I agree. Definitely not for nylander. They’d ask for marner which I would not do, you can get a better dman if you are willing to move marner

 

[biotk]

Nylander was the first to get paid when he returned right before December 1st. They started sucking ever since that point. For what its worth..

They went 8-2-2 over the first weeks from the time of Nylander's signing.

 

[93WrapAround]

Firing Babcock would be a huge mistake. Not his fault that:

1) He had 9 new regulars in his lineup due to a top heavy salary cap
2) That Dermott, Hyman, Tavares, Marner, Kerfoot and Moore have all been injured at different times this season
3) That the Leafs had the worst schedule in entire NHL the first quarter of the season with 4 back to backs.
4) That the GM let go of the wrong backup goalie 2 seasons ago, and they don't have the cap to acquire a solid backup

Firing Babcock would be a copout for Dubas. Dubas is to blame for the contracts and cap, hes to blame for the backup goalie situation, and hes to blame for the type of players he acquired for Babcocks style of hockey. But yet everyone is calling for Babcock's head. Its plain stupid.

If I were Babcock, I would let the Leafs play their style of game to show up Dubas as Dubas has put Babcock in a position to fail. They will also fail playing their style of hockey as well cause you cannot win a cup that way.

The only mistake would have been not firing him this past off-season. Babcock is by NO WAY the sole reason for this 'organizational mess' right now, but if your points/excuses (high turnover, injury problems, poor schedule) are the eventual reasons to finally rid us of this stubborn idiot than I say it's all been a blessing in disguise.

 

[biotk]

Firing Babcock would be a huge mistake. Not his fault that:

1) He had 9 new regulars in his lineup due to a top heavy salary cap
2) That Dermott, Hyman, Tavares, Marner, Kerfoot and Moore have all been injured at different times this season
3) That the Leafs had the worst schedule in entire NHL the first quarter of the season with 4 back to backs.
4) That the GM let go of the wrong backup goalie 2 seasons ago, and they don't have the cap to acquire a solid backup

Firing Babcock would be a copout for Dubas. Dubas is to blame for the contracts and cap, hes to blame for the backup goalie situation, and hes to blame for the type of players he acquired for Babcocks style of hockey. But yet everyone is calling for Babcock's head. Its plain stupid.

If I were Babcock, I would let the Leafs play their style of game to show up Dubas as Dubas has put Babcock in a position to fail. They will also fail playing their style of hockey as well cause you cannot win a cup that way.

Now explain why it's not his fault that the Leafs' went 20-18-6 to finish off the season last year.

 

[Walshy7]

Nylander was the first to get paid when he returned right before December 1st. They started sucking ever since that point. For what its worth..

So you are suggesting the rest of the team were so livid nylander got paid they’ve all downed tools in protest for nearly a year now?

or is it nylander is such a bad human the rest of team just can’t stand to be near him and therefore playing like shit?

or is it a coincidence?

Ill take option 3 I think. Nylander is not good enough to make sure the entire team sucks along with him, despite the fact he isn’t sucking right now too

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

They went 8-2-2 over the first weeks from the time of Nylander's signing.

shows how good Babcock is that he was able to keep a cancer like Nylander from infecting the team for that long, but alas it couldn't last

 

[Vaive50]

Boston we're struggling before they played us as well, something like 4 games without a win I believe

We did them a favor and got them back on track, Vegas is about to feel really good about themselves

We're a real slump buster

Well, now that Vegas whipped Calgary 6-0, they should be satisfied. Hopefully our boys can learn from that and start a winning streak, we are going to need some huge winning streaks to get out of the mess we are in. But I don't think it is going to be that easy, I blame it on our assistant coaches because our special teams suck so bad and that is whats costing us most of the games.

 

[Walshy7]

They went 8-2-2 over the first weeks from the time of Nylander's signing.

but that doesn’t fit the narrative perfectly shame on you.

It’s not even just posters here landsberg was trying to get Button to agree it’s nylander fault this morning.

 

[Daisy Jane]

Firing Babcock would be a huge mistake. Not his fault that:

1) He had 9 new regulars in his lineup due to a top heavy salary cap
2) That Dermott, Hyman, Tavares, Marner, Kerfoot and Moore have all been injured at different times this season
3) That the Leafs had the worst schedule in entire NHL the first quarter of the season with 4 back to backs.
4) That the GM let go of the wrong backup goalie 2 seasons ago, and they don't have the cap to acquire a solid backup

Firing Babcock would be a copout for Dubas. Dubas is to blame for the contracts and cap, hes to blame for the backup goalie situation, and hes to blame for the type of players he acquired for Babcocks style of hockey. But yet everyone is calling for Babcock's head. Its plain stupid.

If I were Babcock, I would let the Leafs play their style of game to show up Dubas as Dubas has put Babcock in a position to fail. They will also fail playing their style of hockey as well cause you cannot win a cup that way.

the leafs have been not very good since this time last year.
other teams have had injuries and keep on going
other teams have had tougher schedules.

that doesn't excuse the stuff that babcock can control

unlike most i generally tend to accept certain conditions (like those)listed but this is not a "blip" problem.

 

[ToneDog]

Firing Babcock would be a huge mistake. Not his fault that:

1) He had 9 new regulars in his lineup due to a top heavy salary cap
2) That Dermott, Hyman, Tavares, Marner, Kerfoot and Moore have all been injured at different times this season
3) That the Leafs had the worst schedule in entire NHL the first quarter of the season with 4 back to backs.
4) That the GM let go of the wrong backup goalie 2 seasons ago, and they don't have the cap to acquire a solid backup

Firing Babcock would be a copout for Dubas. Dubas is to blame for the contracts and cap, hes to blame for the backup goalie situation, and hes to blame for the type of players he acquired for Babcocks style of hockey. But yet everyone is calling for Babcock's head. Its plain stupid.

If I were Babcock, I would let the Leafs play their style of game to show up Dubas as Dubas has put Babcock in a position to fail. They will also fail playing their style of hockey as well cause you cannot win a cup that way.

One could argue that the Leafs have been playing Dubas hockey. That is, we don't give a rat's ass about playing without the puck.

 

[ShaneFalco]

Firing Babcock would be a huge mistake. Not his fault that:

1) He had 9 new regulars in his lineup due to a top heavy salary cap
2) That Dermott, Hyman, Tavares, Marner, Kerfoot and Moore have all been injured at different times this season
3) That the Leafs had the worst schedule in entire NHL the first quarter of the season with 4 back to backs.
4) That the GM let go of the wrong backup goalie 2 seasons ago, and they don't have the cap to acquire a solid backup

Firing Babcock would be a copout for Dubas. Dubas is to blame for the contracts and cap, hes to blame for the backup goalie situation, and hes to blame for the type of players he acquired for Babcocks style of hockey. But yet everyone is calling for Babcock's head. Its plain stupid.

If I were Babcock, I would let the Leafs play their style of game to show up Dubas as Dubas has put Babcock in a position to fail. They will also fail playing their style of hockey as well cause you cannot win a cup that way.

Babcock in a position to fail? Why because he only knows one template way to play hockey!?
It's on Dubas too for sure, but absolving Babcock is what's plain stupid

 

[Carltons Cup]

So you are suggesting the rest of the team were so livid nylander got paid they’ve all downed tools in protest for nearly a year now?

or is it nylander is such a bad human the rest of team just can’t stand to be near him and therefore playing like ****?

or is it a coincidence?

Ill take option 3 I think. Nylander is not good enough to make sure the entire team sucks along with him, despite the fact he isn’t sucking right now too

If I had the answer, I'd be the GM of this team. I'm not implying nylander is at fault, however, something happened or changed in that locker room shortly after he got back. They've been crap ever since...

 

[ToneDog]

Well, now that Vegas whipped Calgary 6-0, they should be satisfied. Hopefully our boys can learn from that and start a winning streak, we are going to need some huge winning streaks to get out of the mess we are in. But I don't think it is going to be that easy, I blame it on our assistant coaches because our special teams suck so bad and that is whats costing us most of the games.

Jeff Marek was told by people from the Panthers that our new PP coach McFarlane liked shots from the point. Unfortunately Babs does not have the same philosophy. Yet the Leafs hired him. It seems that the left hand doesn't know what the right hand is doing in Leaf management land.

 

[biotk]

but that doesn’t fit the narrative perfectly shame on you.

It’s not even just posters here landsberg was trying to get Button to agree it’s nylander fault this morning.

Agreed. Possible Landsberg was just playing devils' advocate because there is a chunk of the fanbase who believes that (I wouldn't know because I haven't listened to Landsberg before). I thought Button was really good throughout the interview - and I think every Leafs' fan should listen to it.

 

[ShaneFalco]

Jeff Marek was told by people from the Panthers that our new PP coach McFarlane liked shots from the point. Unfortunately Babs does not have the same philosophy. Yet the Leafs hired him. It seems that the left hand doesn't know what the right hand is doing in Leaf management land.

Or Babcock is a control freak which wouldn't be the least bit surprising

 

[usernamezrhardtodo]

Really , great concern being stated now? Let's see, it took them a month and a half this year to be concerned. What about the 2nd half of last year? Guess that means they now have to think about it. Maybe they'll do something in a year or two. Those MLSE jokers deserve what they get. Too bad they have to do it at the expense of the fans who, sadly, really care.

Just repeat this in your head until you start to feel better like Dubas does about the state of the team: "trust the process...skilled bottom 6...puck moving Defensemen...process...process and process"... all the way to being out of the playoffs.

We all know Babs is the problem...its been almost a calendar year that we suck. What is it about this "process" that makes you work on solutions like your covered in Molasses ?

 

[ToneDog]

Or Babcock is a control freak which wouldn't be the least bit surprising

Why hire staff if you are not going to let them do their jobs. Like I said, if Babs refuses to adapt, he has to go.

 

[CDN24]

Firing Babcock would be a huge mistake. Not his fault that:

1) He had 9 new regulars in his lineup due to a top heavy salary cap
2) That Dermott, Hyman, Tavares, Marner, Kerfoot and Moore have all been injured at different times this season
3) That the Leafs had the worst schedule in entire NHL the first quarter of the season with 4 back to backs.
4) That the GM let go of the wrong backup goalie 2 seasons ago, and they don't have the cap to acquire a solid backup

Firing Babcock would be a copout for Dubas. Dubas is to blame for the contracts and cap, hes to blame for the backup goalie situation, and hes to blame for the type of players he acquired for Babcocks style of hockey. But yet everyone is calling for Babcock's head. Its plain stupid.

If I were Babcock, I would let the Leafs play their style of game to show up Dubas as Dubas has put Babcock in a position to fail. They will also fail playing their style of hockey as well cause you cannot win a cup that way.

The biggest issue with the back to backs is the lack of an adequate backup goalie. You have to consider the times you benefit from other team on B2B as well


Leafs have had 5 back to backs
Oct 5 mtl 6-5 loss SO
Oct 22 Boston 4-2 loss
Oct 26 mtl 5-2 loss
Nov 10 Hawks 5-4 loss
Nov 16 Pens 6-1 loss

The last 2 Hawks and Pens were both also playing 2nd half of B2B so not really unfair.

Leafs have played teams 3 other times when leafs are rested and other team is on 2nd half of b2b
San Jose Oct 25 leafs win 4-1
Nov 2 Philly leafs win 4-3 in SO
Oct 15 wild leafs win 4-2

So in the 3 games where Leafs were tired and other guys rested the lost all 3 getting on SO loss point, in the three where the opposition is tired they won all 3 one in shootout.

In the 2 where both teams are tired they lost giving a total of 11 goals.

That is not Babcocks fault, that is the no money to pay a backup problem

 

[Walshy7]

If I had the answer, I'd be the GM of this team. I'm not implying nylander is at fault, however, something happened or changed in that locker room shortly after he got back. They've been crap ever since...

there is just no way one player, not even close to our best player, can affect a whole team this long. It is not possible. Matthews, marner or JT in the same situation wouldn’t even have that affect on the team.

Think about it for a minute, for nylander to be the problem all the players would have to hate him so much it affects their games for nearly a year. He doesn’t appear to be overly extroverted in things like the behind the scenes thing for the winter classic etc so I just can’t picture him yelling at people or annoying everyone behind the scenes enough to make an entire team play badly.

 

[usernamezrhardtodo]

Babcock in a position to fail? Why because he only knows one template way to play hockey!?
It's on Dubas too for sure, but absolving Babcock is what's plain stupid

I thought the self professed genius coach would know how to win several different ways. I don't see how anyone can defend this Rube. Boston was actually mocking us after they won this year in the playoffs because they said they were quite shocked we didn't change a single thing on the PK and PP. They expected some changes since it got torched the year before...but nope..steady on the rudder...all the way to missing the playoffs.

 

[biotk]

If I had the answer, I'd be the GM of this team. I'm not implying nylander is at fault, however, something happened or changed in that locker room shortly after he got back. They've been crap ever since...

But is this actually the case that something happened in the locker room? None of us know. Throughout the first 3 months of last season Babcock was in a battle with the team to get them to play the way he wanted them too. He eventually won out. Listen to Babcock's postgame interviews from last year and this year. Up until the end of December what Babcock talked about was how the team was not playing the right way (but they were winning). After that what Babcock talked about was how the team was playing the right way and that because of that wins would start coming (they never did). This year with Babcock knowing that his job was on the line he ensured that he got the players playing his way within the first week or two of the season starting - and again Babs would say after the game, the team is playing well (meaning his way) and the wins will come, but the players don't believe him anymore - nor should they - he's a terrible coach for this group.