Sportsnet: “All bets are off” in regards to Babcock

[hector morrison]

I was never thrilled about the Barrie acquisition, but that is definitely a minority on this board.

Did we have a poll on that trade? I'm guessing most were thrilled about it?

So was the minority correct, or was the majority correct about how good Barrie is?

If Barrie is still the very good player the majority thought what the heck happened to him? Did Dubas do something to him?

I thought he would be an adequate replacement for Gards...but,I really didn't think they needed another Gards. I was hoping for a crease clearing,mean s.o.b. that eliminated the thought of ever crashing the net! But no,they won't listen to me! Go figure!

 

[Bluelines]

I slightly disagree. The cap constraints were there already, and he did a good job getting rid of them. But then he strapped them back on by overpaying for our stars.

I honestly don't think this is an issue now. We have a strong top group of forwards, and our depth is good. Our defense, whatever we think about how they are built, consists of three top pairing guys, a player who has crushed third pairing minutes so far in his career, and Holl who has been a revelation. Our goalie is considered considered a strength, even though the backup position has been an issue.

The way we are built, depth will be an ongoing challenge. But right now the depth is there. We're not good at every position, but no team is.

So in the end he created the current cap crunch , which is what I said. If this teams was healthy, we could only ice 20 players. You don't think that is an issue? If you are playing poorly and don't have options to bring in new players, that is not an issue?

Depth is a term that IMO is over used but rarely quantified by sports fans.

Depth as in we have lots of flexibility in who we deploy on the PK? Depth as in when we have injuries we have players who can step in/step up? Depth as in we have a variation of players skillsets that compliment each other? Depth as in we don't have to over play our starting goalie because our back ups are not NHL caliber? Do we have depth in leadership? Do we have depth in two way players? I think we have a number of very skilled players but saying this team has depth is setting the bar low. Saying we have depth on forward when 2 of the 4 top forwards are mainly one way players, AJ and Kappy show up a couple of times a month, is setting the bar low.

 

[Bluelines]

Yet you are willing to allow the architect to continue to build this team ?

Allow? I'm not sure I have a say in if he stays or if he goes.

 

[hector morrison]

Matthews, Nylander and Tavares didn't have to shower after last night's game. Most of the team were AWOL. My only concern is whether Babs has checked out because last night's performance is not acceptable.

You're not wrong! But this falls into the too many games lately excuse! That amount of games in that short a span has to be an issue. I know they are supposed to be young pro's,but I think it is unreasonable to play that much,with no time to practice on much needed special teams.

 

[Trapper]

Agreed and it is one of my peevs with Babs. No reason why our stars cannot play 21 minutes per game. McD and Drai may be burnt out by playoff time but there is no sense in pacing your guys if you are not going to make the playoffs. When it came to load management and Freddy, Babs said we still have to make the playoffs. Well Mr. Babcock how is that working out for you ??

Unless there is reason beyond our knowledge they don’t get 22+ minutes but we still need a new coach to find out.
They rarely start on time so it’s hard to say all the time why Babcock uses them as such.

 

[Canadian Finn]

this scenario would piss allot of posters here, can you imagine Shanahan announces Dubas' firing and say Babcock stays?

hey, I'm only here for the entertainment - and that would up the 'tainment value HUGE!

 

[ToneDog]

Allow? I'm not sure I have a say in if he stays or if he goes.

Hypothically speaking. Heck I am ready to fire everybody after last night's game

I just hope Babs, Dubas and Shanny are as pissed off as the fan base is.

Our captain should also be pissed off and call a team meeting before the next game.

 

[justafan22]

Blue and white disease is alive with this fanbase

 

[Wafflewhipper]

How a team can continue to allow an unproven GM to keep the reigns after seeing what has happened under his reign is mind boggling for me. Yup, let's fire the proven coach and replace him with an unproven coach. Yikes and Babs and his stubborness has started to piss me off.

Its usage of the players and system of play mostly. Not all on Dubas but he needs to firstly fire the entire coaching staff and let Keefe come in and pick his guys. Thats firstly i believe.

Then move Barrie. Didn’t work. Big deal, grab a asset retention pick for him. Kerfoot was always the player dubas wanted anyways. Matthews and Willy need a big power winger who will look after them when some little rat wants to run them. Nick Richie type ironically would work i believe.

The penalty kill and Powerplay are well, not much of anything.

The identity this team is apparently trying to find is actually always been there. Its soft and yellow with no jam players to make other teams worry a bit when they play us. Sure could start scoring again but would still be soft and character lacking as it sits.

Dubas has his faults, Babs has his faults (entire coaching staff actually is responsible) players have their responsibilities also but they aren’t as close as they used to be because they are beat down right now.

Coach might have to go first i suggest before looking at Dubas?...

 

[Bluelines]

I was never thrilled about the Barrie acquisition, but that is definitely a minority on this board.

Did we have a poll on that trade? I'm guessing most were thrilled about it?

So was the minority correct, or was the majority correct about how good Barrie is?

If Barrie is still the very good player the majority thought what the heck happened to him? Did Dubas do something to him?

I dunno, I was not a fan of the trade not because I think Barrie is a bad player he is quite the opposite but because he was more of the same thing. It was like when you need winter tires but you buy a second set of summer tires instead because they have a good price, you still need those winter tires. We already had Rielly , Barrie is much the same with less defensive ability. It helped with the cap but IMO didn't help with the on ice product. We still need a top pairing right hand defender.

I think Barrie is still a good Dman, I don't think he is a good dman in a Babcock system on this Leafs team.

 

[Trapper]

roger that.

And that’s just the forwards.
We haven’t even scratched the surface of D plus backup. When Holl is your most consistent D...

 

[ULF_55]

Unless there is reason beyond our knowledge they don’t get 22+ minutes but we still need a new coach to find out.
They rarely start on time so it’s hard to say all the time why Babcock uses them as such.

Maybe they should start the game with 5 defensemen on the ice.

Some will remember ...

 

[Havoc]

Agreed and it is one of my peevs with Babs. No reason why our stars cannot play 21 minutes per game. McD and Drai may be burnt out by playoff time but there is no sense in pacing your guys if you are not going to make the playoffs. When it came to load management and Freddy, Babs said we still have to make the playoffs. Well Mr. Babcock how is that working out for you ??

What's even more annoying is when healthy we have two duos not just one. Marner Matthew's tavares will can all handle 20-22 a game.

Never even willing to go 1-2-1-2-3 at crucial times . Insists 4th line needs to see the ice .

 

[ToneDog]

Its usage of the players and system of play mostly. Not all on Dubas but he needs to firstly fire the entire coaching staff and let Keefe come in and pick his guys. Thats firstly i believe.

Then move Barrie. Didn’t work. Big deal, grab a asset retention pick for him. Kerfoot was always the player dubas wanted anyways. Matthews and Willy need a big power winger who will look after them when some little rat wants to run them. Nick Richie type ironically would work i believe.

The penalty kill and Powerplay are well, not much of anything.

The identity this team is apparently trying to find is actually always been there. Its soft and yellow with no jam players to make other teams worry a bit when they play us. Sure could start scoring again but would still be soft and character lacking as it sits.

Dubas has his faults, Babs has his faults (entire coaching staff actually is responsible) players have their responsibilities also but they aren’t as close as they used to be because they are beat down right now.

Coach might have to go first i suggest before looking at Dubas?...

Could not agree more.

 

[ToneDog]

What's even more annoying is when healthy we have two duos not just one. Marner Matthew's tavares will can all handle 20-22 a game.

Never even willing to go 1-2-1-2 at crucial times . Insists 4th line needs to see the ice .

If Babs is interested in keeping his job, he needs to lean on his top 2 lines. If he does not, then I have no sympathy for him when he is fired.

 

[Trapper]

Maybe they should start the game with 5 defensemen on the ice.

Some will remember ...

Remember the Tampa Guy Boucher game where the Lightning didn’t move:


New strategy.

 

[7even]

"The team's not good enough," y'all said after last season. "We rushed the rebuild. We needed to tank one more year."

Babcock heard you, and now he's delivering. A true man of the people.

 

[BodaciousBeefBazooka]

But isnt Babcock suppose to lead this team to a stanley cup? Dubas and Shanny need to swallow their pride and realise this clown needs to go....perhaps Dubas will be let go as well in the not too distant future.

 

[hullsy47]

Hypothically speaking. Heck I am ready to fire everybody after last night's game

I just hope Babs, Dubas and Shanny are as pissed off as the fan base is.

Our captain should also be pissed off and call a team meeting before the next game.

Team meeting dont mean crap if u sugar coat everything
Jesus it was just this summer Mathews was acting like a high school sophomore and 2 summers ago Babcock had to fly to Arizona to coddle him
Mathews cant score on the road ffs
Nylander is coming I think
But its painfully obvious this team needs new direction
I dont blame dubas ,all these inflated salaries are because of the toronto market
But it wasnt a secret actually by dec 1st we can start to put this season to bed
I hope I'm wrong but the leafs might beat Vegas Tuesday.
But they are the hunted ones now so every game is gonna be a grind
This lineup is built like a Lexus or Volvo
Playing against dodge ram hemi's lol
I live in windsor hence the Motown reference

 

[hector morrison]

Unless there is reason beyond our knowledge they don’t get 22+ minutes but we still need a new coach to find out.
They rarely start on time so it’s hard to say all the time why Babcock uses them as such.

Babs refuses to stack a line with offense...he said before he wanted to 'spread out the talent/scoring'. i was on board ,thinking 'yeah,should be a challenge for opposing teams to match that'...but when it isn't working ,or when you are behind in the game,I think stacking a line would be a good idea. Even if it's just for a shift or two. Maybe insert Matthews into the 4th line instead of Gauthier as a surprise to the other coach. Or Jt goes out in place of Hyman for 45 seconds(Sacrilege to Babs ,I know).

The 'stay the course,work hard and gud things will happen ' mantra isn't working...cuz it's Bullshyte ! He probably is a lousy chess player!

 

[Joedoggy]

Euro coaching style..combined with Euro playing style(players)...Exactly what did anyone expect ..there are the Euro posters who applauded this insanity also....non of the above understand the NHL game, thats why the results are what they are..

 

[Bluelines]

Hypothically speaking. Heck I am ready to fire everybody after last night's game

I just hope Babs, Dubas and Shanny are as pissed off as the fan base is.

Our captain should also be pissed off and call a team meeting before the next game.

Hypothetically speaking I'm not a fan of the type of team Dubas is building, I wouldn't have hired him in the first place. It does not mean he is a bad GM, it means I prefer a blue collar, crash the net, forecheck hard, finish your checks, stop on the puck type team 5 on 5, never give up the puck easily type team. I like to apply constant and unrelenting pressure in every facet of the game.

I don't care for teams who setup 2 players in the slot (one in front of the goalie, one in the high slot area). I hate the long drop pass on the PP. Last year we stick checked like our lives depended on it, this year, I don't see the same intensity.

The type of team Dubas built looks already defeated, no chatter on the bench, shoulders slumped. Talking to themselves. I feel truly bad for these guys.

I thought they canceled practice before the NYI game to have a team meeting. I think this problem is more systemic than a players meeting.

 

[Daisy Jane]

I don't get why people feel that Matthews etc willl be better if they played 22 minutes over 19-20. blaming that on Babcock to me is just being a bit silly personally.

 

[Carltons Cup]

McDavid and Draisatl get 22 minutes a game.

In close games that also go to OT they'll be around 25-26.

Maybe if our stars were used like elite players they'll have the motivation to bring it.

50 seconds on a powerplay then you have to switch for .....Nic Petan.

But Babs is grooming Petan to be a gud pro ....

 

[Suntouchable13]

this scenario would piss allot of posters here, can you imagine Shanahan announces Dubas' firing and say Babcock stays?

Yea, well, what if the GM he wants says "I don't want Babcock"? You either give the GM full autonomy or don't bother. If he has not given Dubas full autonomy then he was also fully behind these inflated contracts. Then Shanny is the person to blame for all of this. You can't say Shanny is 100% innocent. So if he stands behind Babs then he can f*** off.