Sportsnet: “All bets are off” in regards to Babcock

[DueDiligence]

Would a player like Matthews demanding a trade behind closed doors be enough to get Babcock fired? Got to think there are a few of these guys wanting away from this guy and the players hold the power in 2019.

Matthews is probably regretting the idea he didn't push for a trade to the Coyotes. They look like a better team now.

 

[Just Rude]

Babcock is overrated and his inability - or refusal - to adjust as the game changes will be his undoing.

The Olympic wins were not the result of great coaching, but the fortune of being handed two of the best teams in the history of international hockey.His lone Stanley Cup in Detroit - almost 12 years ago - was, again, with an absolutely loaded Wings team, but credit where credit is due. A ring is a ring.

I am not saying he wasn't a good coach. In his prime years, he was probably one of the best coaches in the NHL. But he hasn't been out of the second round in his last nine trips to the playoffs, and in his past five playoff appearances - and six of the last seven - his teams have been knocked out in the first round.

Those number don't lie. But the game has changed, and his style hasn't. We need a coach who can adjust with the changing times, not one who is stuck in his ways.

On Tuesday, it will be a year since the Blues, at the time the worst team in hockey, fired Mike Yeo and named Craig Berube head coach. We all know what happened next. The Blues had a coach they wanted to play for, and went to the wall for him.

That is the culture change the team needs, and right now. This is quickly turning into a lost season.

 

[Bluelines]

The biggest problem with Dubas is that everyone that he has either let go or dumped has not been replaced by anyone remotely better. I believe Kadri's impact was highly underrated. Should he have been released, absolutely, but not if you couldn't find someone who would stand up for his teammates. What is also missed is the fact that so many penalties were called on the other teams because he was such an a**hole. Brown was useful on the PK, a hard worker and another defender of his mates. He also looked like he cared which is more than can be said about the pretty boy floaters Dubas has opened the vault for.

Any argument that Dubas is young and we should cut him some slack is ludicrous. He was handed a team that last year was the early favourite to win the Cup and taken them as a contender for last place. He should never have been hired and now it's probably too late. It looks like, to me, he has destroyed this franchise for another 52 years.

To be fair to Dubas, players had to go because of cap constraints. To be fair to fans, Dubas created those constraints. Dubas has done more for other GM's by showing what happens when you have an unbalance in salaries and talent.

One of AM, JT, MM, or WN will be traded before the beginning of next season.

 

[Buds17]

Matt Martin should have stayed

Couldn't really have worked out IMO. I think the entire fourth line essentially costs the same. He wasn't on the PK either. I think if/when the team adds any future sandpaper, it's better served to be on a line with skill.

 

[ottomaddox]

To be fair to Dubas, players had to go because of cap constraints. To be fair to fans, Dubas created those constraints. Dubas has done more for other GM's by showing what happens when you have an unbalance in salaries and talent.

One of AM, JT, MM, or WN will be traded before the beginning of next season.

Do we allow Dubas to do that trade? Do you trust his decision making at this point?

 

[Just Rude]

One of AM, JT, MM, or WN will be traded before the beginning of next season.

Good point, and I agree. One of them has to go. It's simple math.

On an unrelated note, we are also getting hit with the same injury bug that the Bruins had to deal with last year, so a lot of this poor play is with key players out. But good teams find a way to win with injuries.

Watching last night, it was blatantly obvious this team has quit on their coach. The Penguins made it look like pond hockey.

 

[Erdinger]

Do we allow Dubas to do that trade? Do trust his decision making at this point?

Agreed that trade is going to be too important for this franchise. He has got to get solid assets back as well as not eating cap money. They need to get someone experienced in to advise him even if it will be a massive blow to his ego

 

[ToneDog]

Do we allow Dubas to do that trade? Do trust his decision making at this point?

You have to fire the coach or GM before trading a big piece. They have to decide which of Nylander and Marner they want to keep.

 

[hector morrison]

To be fair, they did have a chance to practice, but cancelled the session so Dubas could tell the media Ceci's underlying numbers were good, it seems.

I doubt it would of been much of a practice...when was there time in those 8 days? I 'm not gonna go check ,but i doubt any other teams played 6 back to backs to start the season. Maybe it'll even out.i don't know ,but it is ridiculous to expect players to be at their best under those conditions. If things aren't going well,when do you have time to work on correcting things? I am keen to criticize Babs,but the schedule really hasn't helped him or the players.

 

[Leaf4Life79]

Matt Martin couldn't even stay in the lineup.

If he cost league minimum, I really wouldn't mind having him on our fourth line now though. But I don't think you address issues with your fourth line.

He stuck up for our players.. nobody on this team now sticks up for our players, nobody... bunch of p***yes.. ya Martin may not have been highly skilled, but it was his willingness to stick up for our team that I miss.

 

[McSnypsky]

For those who still don't understand the coach is demanding his players play in a manner that goes against their instincts, please explain what happened to Barrie?

In the 1st game of the season, October 2, Barrie had 2 assists, 6 shots and pulled off 2 spin moves.

The first one was exiting the D-zone with the puck and the the guy pursuing him wound up on his ass.

The second one was while stationary at the point:



So what happened to Tyson Barrie?

Did he just turn into a **** hockey player all of sudden or was he ordered not to take chances like that and now plays against his instincts which made him a high impact offensive d-man in the NHL?

this was a big thing for me, I think and I can't find the quote but Carlo was talking about it, that Babs wanted Barrie to "reinvent himself'" or something to that nature. It's gotten so bad he's panicked to attack, weak shots from way back it doesn't make sense. And it's so bad now Muzzin looks like an offensive defenseman!

 

[ToneDog]

They should fire this guy before they waste another season on him. There's no point even debating his credentials/ability, he clearly can't make it happen with this team.

This season is probably gone. If anybody does not think this team has trended down since Dubas took over, I don't know what to tell you.

 

[34]

You have to fire the coach or GM before trading a big piece. They have to decide which of Nylander and Marner they want to keep.

You trade Marner over Nylander. Nylander saves you $4M against the cap and they are equal players. Willy is bigger, stronger and has a way better shot.

 

[Nithoniniel]

To be fair to Dubas, players had to go because of cap constraints. To be fair to fans, Dubas created those constraints. Dubas has done more for other GM's by showing what happens when you have an unbalance in salaries and talent.

I slightly disagree. The cap constraints were there already, and he did a good job getting rid of them. But then he strapped them back on by overpaying for our stars.

I honestly don't think this is an issue now. We have a strong top group of forwards, and our depth is good. Our defense, whatever we think about how they are built, consists of three top pairing guys, a player who has crushed third pairing minutes so far in his career, and Holl who has been a revelation. Our goalie is considered considered a strength, even though the backup position has been an issue.

The way we are built, depth will be an ongoing challenge. But right now the depth is there. We're not good at every position, but no team is.

 

[Menzinger]

This team needs a coach whose approach to high skill, riskier plays is "nice move. That better work more times than it doesn't, and when it doesn't you better bust your ass to fix it"

rather than

"I better not see that **** again"


This is a team full of difference makers that are having the difference maker stifled out of them. If you've been a difference maker at any point in your life (at anything) you know how soul crushing that can be.

Imo communication is by far the most ortant trait for the new coach.

 

[KuleminFan41]

The biggest problem with Dubas is that everyone that he has either let go or dumped has not been replaced by anyone remotely better. I believe Kadri's impact was highly underrated. Should he have been released, absolutely, but not if you couldn't find someone who would stand up for his teammates. What is also missed is the fact that so many penalties were called on the other teams because he was such an a**hole. Brown was useful on the PK, a hard worker and another defender of his mates. He also looked like he cared which is more than can be said about the pretty boy floaters Dubas has opened the vault for.

Any argument that Dubas is young and we should cut him some slack is ludicrous. He was handed a team that last year was the early favourite to win the Cup and taken them as a contender for last place. He should never have been hired and now it's probably too late. It looks like, to me, he has destroyed this franchise for another 52 years.

You have rose tinted glasses on big time. The Leafs actually took the series lead without Kadri in the playoffs. Kadri plays no part in the team if he isn't playing for them during the most important time in the season. Kerfoot is a better fit for this team and he isn't going to take back to back suspensions and seriously hurt the team. Barrie is a perennial 50 point defensemen but sometimes a different system doesn't suit the player , it happens but that doesn't mean he's worse than Gardiner, who looked mentally out of it by the time he left anyway.

The special teams issues are more to do with coaching, than they are to do with personnel. The PP last season was 8th(22%),and PK was 17th(78.7%). This season, PP is 21st(16.7%) and PK is 25th(75%). That cannot all be down to Kadri,Gardiner and Brown's absence

Dubas has not destroyed the franchise, calm the hell down, you lose any credibility saying that stuff. Even the Bruins, Tampa and Nashville missed the playoffs while having strong contending teams. Sometimes that happens, but I still believe the team will make the playoffs , even if they regress to the wildcard.

 

[ToneDog]

I slightly disagree. The cap constraints were there already, and he did a good job getting rid of them. But then he strapped them back on by overpaying for our stars.

I honestly don't think this is an issue now. We have a strong top group of forwards, and our depth is good. Our defense, whatever we think about how they are built, consists of three top pairing guys, a player who has crushed third pairing minutes so far in his career, and Holl who has been a revelation. Our goalie is considered considered a strength, even though the backup position has been an issue.

The way we are built, depth will be an ongoing challenge. But right now the depth is there. We're not good at every position, but no team is.

McDavid and Draisaitl are proof that two stars can carry a team. We supposedly have 3-4 stars and more talent than the Oilers and are shitting the bed. The difference I see is that McD and Drai bring it every night and their foot soldiers fall in line, whereas our stars bring it when they feel like it and our foot soldiers fall in line.

 

[Erdinger]

This season is probably gone. If anybody does not think this team has trended down since Dubas took over, I don't know what to tell you.

I agree and think the Leafs should use the rest of it to start the necessary re-shaping of the team (not a rebuild) to balance it out. Obviously the coaching needs to be changed and if we managed to retain the conditional 1st rounder as a side effect that is a bonus too. But start now so that next season won't be another gong show. It can be the blip year like the Bolts had a few years ago when they missed th playoffs with a stacked team

 

[Trapper]

McDavid and Draisaitl are proof that two stars can carry a team. We supposedly have 3-4 stars and more talent than the Oilers and are ****ting the bed. The difference I see is that McD and Drai bring it every night and their foot soldiers fall in line, whereas our stars bring it when they feel like it and our foot soldiers fall in line.

Our 3rd and 4th lines had a hot start to the year and we may not even be where we are if not for that October.
That should scare people when you think half our cap is spent on guys to be the same catalysts as McDavid/MacKinnon/etc.

 

[ToneDog]

I agree and think the Leafs should use the rest of it to start the necessary re-shaping of the team (not a rebuild) to balance it out. Obviously the coaching needs to be changed and if we managed to retain the conditional 1st rounder as a side effect that is a bonus too. But start now so that next season won't be another gong show. It can be the blip year like the Bolts had a few years ago when they missed th playoffs with a stacked team

Agree but I do not trust Dubas to be in charge of this team. If the season is done, fire Dubas as he is a fraud. We might be able to salvage Babs.

 

[Cor]

See, this isn’t a new thing at all, which some posters tend to ignore.

The Leafs from about Christmas last year to the end of the season were playing well below their ability as well. We are a .500 or below team in the last year essentially.

There’s no defending it. There 100% needs to be a coaching change. Whether you disagree with some player decisions, or hate the GM, it’s still undeniable that the coaching also needs to be changed

 

[ToneDog]

Our 3rd and 4th lines had a hot start to the year and we may not even be where we are if not for that October.
That should scare people when you think half our cap is spent on guys to be the same catalysts as McDavid/MacKinnon/etc.

Exactly why I say our offence is overrated. Ferraro said it during training camp, you cannot win with so many players making the minimum.

 

[Erdinger]

See, this isn’t a new thing at all, which some posters tend to ignore.

The Leafs from about Christmas last year to the end of the season were playing well below their ability as well. We are a .500 or below team in the last year essentially.

There’s no defending it. There 100% needs to be a coaching change. Whether you disagree with some player decisions, or hate the GM, it’s still undeniable that the coaching also needs to be changed

But someone at MLSE does not want to do it. I think we can all agree it's not Dubas keeping Babcock here

 

[Menzinger]

But someone at MLSE does not want to do it. I think we can all agree it's not Dubas keeping Babcock here

Tannenbaum seemingly played a big role in pitch to Babs with shanny.

Seems like Babs had got friends on high places at mlse....

 

[Bluelines]

Do we allow Dubas to do that trade? Do you trust his decision making at this point?

Do I trust him? I've never thought about that question TBH. I don't trust him to manage the cap well. He did manage to get Barrie, who was before he came to Toronto an elite point producer. I guess trust is subjective on what you are looking for. The way Boston and St Lou are constructed are more blue collar + skill type teams that I like to watch. I dont like the way Toronto is constructed because its not built the way I like teams to be built, doesn't mean Kyle wont make a good trade.