Sportsnet: “All bets are off” in regards to Babcock

[shakes]

Seems like it was a good choice not to watch this "NHL" quality team this year. Same old same old. Fifty years of futility and counting...

 

[Atomos2]

Babcock doesn't know anything about coaching? Don't be so emotional.

He does, but it's not working with Toronto ATM. I agree he's doing a terrible job this season but I'm not panicking in November.

I'm not defending anything up until this point, but I'm not saying he can't figure something out.

I'd give him another month to sort something out while searching for a suitable replacement incase this continues, which is a very, very strong possibility.

This “suitable replacement” should have been discovered in the summer. This preppy genius claims to have contingencies and preparations for every scenario, maybe he should’ve thought of a scenario where the team he recklessly threw millions of dollars into would be pure crap come November. The Babcock replacement should already be in his head, if not that’s another f*** up by Dubas.

 

[Stephen]

I don’t blame him. He wants to be on team where he can make 8 million next year.

The man is due for a Jake Gardiner free agency. He’s just not really worth it!

 

[Stephen]

This “suitable replacement” should have been discovered in the summer. This preppy genius claims to have contingencies and preparations for every scenario, maybe he should’ve thought of a scenario where the team he recklessly threw millions of dollars into would be pure crap come November. The Babcock replacement should already be in his head, if not that’s another **** up by Dubas.

I also question what the heck he was thinking paying a reclamation like Ceci so much money.

 

[SprDaVE]

I remember years ago when the Leafs humiliated the Penguins in Toronto and the next day the Penguins fired Michel Therrien as their head coach. They were struggling hard.

They hired Dan Bylsma from their AHL team as the interim coach. Zero NHL head coach experience, just a stint as an assistant coach. They went on to go on a 18-3-4 run. Want to guess what happened in the playoffs?

Not to say these things would happen to us, but this team needs a massive change and there isn't a trade that is going to make these coaches do something different.

Babcock has had 5 years of drilling his concept into players. He's had 3 years of improvements year after year and world class players getting added to his team.

 

[Advanced stats]

That game looked as much a "last game" as I've ever seen someone coach in. I think he's done, later today. That'll be a start but it ain't over!

The new coach will be interim only, the offseason will have the new GM pick his own coach.

There won't be a new GM. Dubas will be given every chance to see out this visionary team.

 

[Contenderorpretender]

How about sending Babcock to the marlies and calling up o'Keefe.

 

[All Mod Cons]

I Don't like Babs strategies or way of thinking(or lack of). However,as difficult as it is to excuse him,this has been a trying time. This wasn't just a 2nd game of a back to back with travel and a new and inexperienced (at the NHL level) goalie. It was the 5th game in 8 days with 2 sets of back to backs in that time frame. That can't be normal! In fact ,I think it's crazy! who made this schedule?To take a look further back ,it was the 7th game in 11 days. Legitimate excuse? It definitely doesn't help. No way they are practicing in that time frame. They really need to get their shyte together.Guys in and out of the line-up due to injury isn't supposed to be an excuse...but it really is. I won't get into what I think Babs coulda or shoulda done tonite. with that many games in that short of a span,it may not matter what he did! But ,I doubt he gets fired yet!

To be fair, they did have a chance to practice, but cancelled the session so Dubas could tell the media Ceci's underlying numbers were good, it seems.

 

[4thline]

This team needs a coach whose approach to high skill, riskier plays is "nice move. That better work more times than it doesn't, and when it doesn't you better bust your ass to fix it"

rather than

"I better not see that shit again"


This is a team full of difference makers that are having the difference maker stifled out of them. If you've been a difference maker at any point in your life (at anything) you know how soul crushing that can be.

 

[shaner82]

I remember years ago when the Leafs humiliated the Penguins in Toronto and the next day the Penguins fired Michel Therrien as their head coach. They were struggling hard.

They hired Dan Bylsma from their AHL team as the interim coach. Zero NHL head coach experience, just a stint as an assistant coach. They went on to go on a 18-3-4 run. Want to guess what happened in the playoffs?

Not to say these things would happen to us, but this team needs a massive change and there isn't a trade that is going to make these coaches do something different.

Babcock has had 5 years of drilling his concept into players. He's had 3 years of improvements year after year and world class players getting added to his team.

Yeah but if you ask some Leaf fans, a rookie coach could never have success here, it's impossible...

 

[SprDaVE]

Yeah but if you ask some Leaf fans, a rookie coach could never have success here, it's impossible...

There are plenty of examples over the past decade or so with teams changing their head coach mid ish season and the team having a lot of success, usually with someone out of the AHL with little to no NHL experience.

I will not be surprised if they let Hasktol take over though................... and while I'll give him a chance, I will be quite frustrated because I feel like he's part of the problem.

Keefe has earned his shot to take over if the Leafs decide to remove Babcock. AHL championship, so much development from a lot of different players, consistently one of the best team in the league no matter what kind of roster he gets.

 

[TheGroceryStick]

Here's why I think Dubas won't fire Babcock this year, no matter how bad we are:

- Although I'm pretty sure he absolutely hates the way Babcock handles the roster he put together, his love towards Keefe is much stronger. He knows Keefe will be a much better fit, but not right now. He doesn't want to throw him under the bus and put him into this tough situation. The team is a mess, their morale is the lowest ever (thanks again Babs), this isn't really the time to take over, especially for a guy who never coached an NHL team.
- MLSE and Shanny. They've invested so much into this maniac they won't allow Dubas to fire him. With everyone cleary seeing there is a big problem with the guy, and no matter how bad he is he still got a resume, this whole Shanaplan was started with him, he was the face of the franchise from the day he got hired, up until Tavares and Matthews really took over last year. It was meant to be the perfect cinderella story with him, the "best coach of the world coming home to Toronto to win the Stanley Cup". They won't let it go and certainly won't fire the guy, they rather watch this season going down the toilet and let Babcock go in the summer (when his contract allows it)

And again, I'm 100% sure Dubas truly hates the guy. How they view todays game is the complete opposite. Kyle did everything to remove all of Babcock's toys in the past few years, yet somehow that old fart still operates the same ****ty way, because he thinks he is God, the best ever, who knows everything.

So at the end, I think we need to wait till next summer, and this will be the real pain Babcock was talking about.

I agree for the most part.

A mid season Firing and better play ,right away, with Rentals like Muzzin/Barrie etc. Makes his "push" for this year less of a disaster.

If we ride out babs and go into the offseason in disarray (especially on the back end) I dont think it means any good for Dubas.

 

[Kamiccolo]

Since Ovi called out the Leafs and Babcock applauded him, Leafs are 27th in point percentage. Also 27th in xGF%, 30th in high danger%, 27th in powerplay goals, and 28th on the penalty kill. I think you could really point to Babcock throwing the team under the bus over Ovechkin's comments as the point the team totally packed it in

Adding onto this thinking, if you go back to last year, you can see the exact moment when the Leafs PP went from good to the terrible state it is now. Want to guess when it was?

 

[Faltorvo]

Here's why I think Dubas won't fire Babcock this year, no matter how bad we are:

- Although I'm pretty sure he absolutely hates the way Babcock handles the roster he put together, his love towards Keefe is much stronger. He knows Keefe will be a much better fit, but not right now. He doesn't want to throw him under the bus and put him into this tough situation. The team is a mess, their morale is the lowest ever (thanks again Babs), this isn't really the time to take over, especially for a guy who never coached an NHL team.
- MLSE and Shanny. They've invested so much into this maniac they won't allow Dubas to fire him. With everyone cleary seeing there is a big problem with the guy, and no matter how bad he is he still got a resume, this whole Shanaplan was started with him, he was the face of the franchise from the day he got hired, up until Tavares and Matthews really took over last year. It was meant to be the perfect cinderella story with him, the "best coach of the world coming home to Toronto to win the Stanley Cup". They won't let it go and certainly won't fire the guy, they rather watch this season going down the toilet and let Babcock go in the summer (when his contract allows it)

And again, I'm 100% sure Dubas truly hates the guy. How they view todays game is the complete opposite. Kyle did everything to remove all of Babcock's toys in the past few years, yet somehow that old fart still operates the same ****ty way, because he thinks he is God, the best ever, who knows everything.

So at the end, I think we need to wait till next summer, and this will be the real pain Babcock was talking about.

or all of babcocks so called toys filled roles on this team that the others could not, including the tissue soft guys he just added.

babcock used his toys to get into the POs in a year they should not have
then back to back 100 point seasons only to lose in game 7s to the eastern champs , thanks to gardiner and his stunning -8 in those 2 games combined.

now we have a 50% roster turn over and the team looks like hot garbage , i put this all on dubases toys.

 

[shaner82]

There are plenty of examples over the past decade or so with teams changing their head coach mid ish season and the team having a lot of success, usually with someone out of the AHL with little to no NHL experience.

I will not be surprised if they let Hasktol take over though................... and while I'll give him a chance, I will be quite frustrated because I feel like he's part of the problem.

Keefe has earned his shot to take over if the Leafs decide to remove Babcock. AHL championship, so much development from a lot of different players, consistently one of the best team in the league no matter what kind of roster he gets.

I want Keefe to take over for one reason and one reason only, because it allows the franchise to go all in on Dubas plan and philosophy. Right now we have a true Moneyball situation. The GM is trying to change how a team is built and the coach won't allow it. Bringing in a new coach that perhaps isn't all in on Dubas plan won't help any. Let Dubas build the team he wants and have it coached in a manner that fits what he's trying to do. That is Keefe.

Only then will we be able to properly judge Dubas. Right now he gets a pass from me because the team he built is not being utilized properly. Dubas needs a chance to show he can build a winning team, but he needs a coach that's on board with his philosophy.

 

[shaner82]

or all of babcocks so called toys filled roles on this team that the others could not, including the tissue soft guys he just added.

babcock used his toys to get into the POs in a year they should not have
then back to back 100 point seasons only to lose in game 7s to the eastern champs , thanks to gardiner and his stunning -8 in those 2 games combined.

now we have a 50% roster turn over and the team looks like hot garbage , i put this all on dubases toys.

50%? Give me a break. The core is completely the same.

Matthews-Johnson-Nylander
Marner-JT-Hyman

The top 6 hasn't changed at all. Then you have similar faces like Gauthier, Reilly, Kap, Anderson, Dermott, Muzzin, Holl, Petan.

That's a lot of the same faces as last year and well, well short of 50% turn over.

Besides, the team has been in a state of decline since last January. This isn't new this year, this started last year.

 

[rumman]

Then the team looks at other changes, but until a new coach, with a new system comes in, nobody really knows what else needs to be changed.

GM needs to be changed if you want this team to be successful, changing the captain on the Titanic wouldn't have helped when the ship wasn't built to withstand the obstacles along the way................

 

[TheDoldrums]

If you've ever worked under a boss you hated, you can recognize the body language of the Leafs. The morale is gone.

I think Babcock has antiquated ideas and his system and assistants this year have been a disaster. But that's not the worst part. They've quit on this coach. It's that simple.

Every game that goes by with Babcock still coaching is time wasted on salvaging the season.

 

[shaner82]

GM needs to be changed if you want this team to be successful, changing the captain on the Titanic wouldn't have helped when the ship wasn't built to withstand the obstacles along the way................

Ships aren't supposed to smash into icebergs. A captain who avoids the iceberg would be far better than one who takes a vulnerable ship and crashes it into everything in sight

 

[Faltorvo]

His job is to save the season. The Blues fired Yeo in November and didn’t actually turn things around until after New Years. The replacement probably won’t magically turn us back into contenders overnight, it will be gradual.

st loo had a goalie show up out of nowhere and post a .927 sv% over 30+ games.

 

[Nithoniniel]

Even if you don't think Babcock is entirely to blame here, firing him achieves two things: 1) We either address the problem, or move closer to the root problem, and 2) The players know that they are next if they don't step it up.

Could have added Dubas to the second point but I don't believe GMs should make panic moves to save their jobs. It's what can ruin franchises long after they are gone.

st loo had a goalie show up out of nowhere and post a .927 sv% over 30+ games.

And part of the reason he did was because the Blues as a whole was one of the strongest teams in the league from that point onwards.

 

[Faltorvo]

50%? Give me a break. The core is completely the same.

Matthews-Johnson-Nylander
Marner-JT-Hyman

The top 6 hasn't changed at all. Then you have similar faces like Gauthier, Reilly, Kap, Anderson, Dermott, Muzzin, Holl, Petan.

That's a lot of the same faces as last year and well, well short of 50% turn over.

Besides, the team has been in a state of decline since last January. This isn't new this year, this started last year.

and yet they finished with 100 points and took the east champs to game 7 where gardiner got to repeat his magic

and i do consider half of your top 4 D as core along with much of your PK units and 3rd C and your back up tender that is going to play 30 ish effn games

 

[Faltorvo]

If you've ever worked under a boss you hated, you can recognize the body language of the Leafs. The morale is gone.

I think Babcock has antiquated ideas and his system and assistants this year have been a disaster. But that's not the worst part. They've quit on this coach. It's that simple.

Every game that goes by with Babcock still coaching is time wasted on salvaging the season.

you mean they have quit on their teammates and the fans

 

[Faltorvo]

50%? Give me a break. The core is completely the same.

Matthews-Johnson-Nylander
Marner-JT-Hyman

The top 6 hasn't changed at all. Then you have similar faces like Gauthier, Reilly, Kap, Anderson, Dermott, Muzzin, Holl, Petan.

That's a lot of the same faces as last year and well, well short of 50% turn over.

Besides, the team has been in a state of decline since last January. This isn't new this year, this started last year.

11 new faces in full time roles, just the facts man

 

[rumman]

Ships aren't supposed to smash into icebergs. A captain who avoids the iceberg would be far better than one who takes a vulnerable ship and crashes it into everything in sight

I'd argue that going into iceberg infested waters with a weak hull is a recipe for disaster, but to each his own...........