Sportsnet: “All bets are off” in regards to Babcock

[Erdinger]

Marchand, gallagher, marner
Its not a trait exclusive to talentless plugs; the desire to win comes from internal drive to win not from size or in the case of the poster i was quoting someone who cant score

Yes but guys like Fleury and Gilmour were 30 years ago when the league had gone to 6'+ 200lb+ players. Those guys really were amazing to not only get into the NHL but to excel in it.

 

[MarnerElite]

why can't scoring have heart and work ethic? or is heart and work ethic just a codeword for talentless?
Theo Fleury and Gilmour were small skill players but high motor, heart of a lion types; none of these traits are mutually exclusive

Very few elite guys also have extreme work ethic, heart, ability to make hits that change the game. Crosby and Malkin duo were 2 that i respected highly(and still do even though it's obvious they have been beaten very badly to a point they're probably done soon)...You go into the corner and those guys battled their asses off, kept being checked hard and never gave up on pucks. If that's what you see from our guys, ok, you can believe it but it's not what i see(and not just from them, good portion of elite guys only rely on their skill alone..hence why others are very important part of that puzzle to balance it all out).

 

[killer1980]

If Kadri was the heart of the Leafs, they'd have given up after Game 2 last year, and after Game 1 the year before.

I think Kadri's heart and passion was a big part of the Leafs' future. Replace that or bring him back.

 

[MattySnipes]

Another thing - when it comes to the percentage of time this team is leading and trailing during games this season they have managed to fall exactly inline with the tank season:

2015/16 season: leading 21.7% of the time; trailing 39.4% of the time.
This season: leading 22.0% of the time; trailing 38.9% of the time.

The 3 seasons in between they averaged 37.2% and 28.3%.

So it's a complete disaster, and must be completely demoralizing for the players - at least in the tank year they were tanking.

If they don't right this ship quick things will have gone too far and they will have to start over with a new rebuild.

But anyway, I am not a long time Leafs' fan (and there is another team I also cheer for), but I have watched every single Leafs game for a little more than 3 years now, but I just have to step away - maybe for just a game, maybe for a month, I don't know - but this game broke me. There have been too many Leafs' games over the past 11 months where I had asked myself "why the hell am I watching this? Am I some kind of masochist?" But this last game was something else. I have watched games where a team lost 6-1, but I came away saying, well my team had some bad bounces or something. This game really should have been about 12-1 and the Pens started going easy on them.

Hockey can be a bad game. Everyone needs a break sometimes. Take your time.

 

[Giuseppe Sallo]

No excuses... Babs should be fired but I'll give him till Christmas break.

 

[MarnerElite]

Sounds like a lot of folks on this board.

I don't plan on letting any of them off the hook when Babs gets the boot.

How about this, since you're so smart and all. If a new coach comes in and nothing changes within 1 full season, you leave this forum. If they end up anything better than they have been, i leave. You willing to put that up since you're so smart in knowing what is wrong with this team? 'I dont' plan on letting any of them off the hook'. heh..

 

[IPS]

How about this, since you're so smart and all. If a new coach comes in and nothing changes within 1 full season, you leave this forum. If they end up anything better than they have been, i leave. You willing to put that up since you're so smart in knowing what is wrong with this team? 'I dont' plan on letting any of them off the hook'. heh..

Yeah I don't give a f*** if it's the players or the coach who's the problem, said this about 10000x the last month.

But I have been proclaiming for years now what a complete moron this clown of a coach is and have been mocked, belittled and scoffed at most of it. Weird enough a lot of folks who did that to me seemed to have switched to my side now.

Plus what would "leaving" the forum do? Couldn't I just come back under another account? I sense you got a bit of a bone to pick with me, let it loose my friend.

 

[Man Bear Pig]

ummm what?

and games are not played on paper

just ask jersey/rangers/knights/preds/sharks

all paper tigers so far

Where did I say they're played on paper? The Leafs with Dermott, Rielly,Barrie, Muzzin, Ceci etc shouldn't be this atrocious. That d-core may not be elite but it shouldn't be getting shredded apart every night. Is it really worse than a team like the Bruins? Because it's just as talented and deep enough. You have the puck movers and you have the bruisers.

 

[Green Snow Storm]

This could have simply been avoided if they had either went with Hunter or Lamorello.

I don’t get what the hell expected to happen. Dubas/Babcock are not on the same page. Dubas literally took away all of the players Babcock was able to make effective in order to have his dworf figure skating team

Dubas took away players 90% of the fan base we're clamoring to get rid of due to Babcock overplaying them. Case in point Marleau game 7.

 

[Giuseppe Sallo]

Good point... So why is the D this miserable?

 

[klmdg]

For those who still don't understand the coach is demanding his players play in a manner that goes against their instincts, please explain what happened to Barrie?

In the 1st game of the season, October 2, Barrie had 2 assists, 6 shots and pulled off 2 spin moves.

The first one was exiting the D-zone with the puck and the the guy pursuing him wound up on his ass.

The second one was while stationary at the point:



So what happened to Tyson Barrie?

Did he just turn into a shit hockey player all of sudden or was he ordered not to take chances like that and now plays against his instincts which made him a high impact offensive d-man in the NHL?

 

[wingman75]

No excuses... Babs should be fired but I'll give him till Christmas break.

I totally believe in letting the team find their way, but I just watched the exact game tonight that I have for 65+ games since Feb 2019... they have changed all the assistants and 11 roster players and the team looks the same, only worse. Everyone says the team doesn't have an identity... I think they do, since they play the same way every game. Babcock has been very clear that he has a game play, a style of play that he enforces and that's that. No adjusting, no altering, just dig in and grid. Time to really find out if the players are the problem.

 

[Giuseppe Sallo]

Ovie somehow predicted this mess... Calling out babs!

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

Since Ovi called out the Leafs and Babcock applauded him, Leafs are 27th in point percentage. Also 27th in xGF%, 30th in high danger%, 27th in powerplay goals, and 28th on the penalty kill. I think you could really point to Babcock throwing the team under the bus over Ovechkin's comments as the point the team totally packed it in

 

[Giuseppe Sallo]

Of maybe, just maybe, they want him gone.

Tonight's effort was inexcusable. I bet they will get crushed again and again.

 

[Nylanderthal]

Well we paid Nathan Horton over 5 million a year for the last 5-6 years to sit at home. So paying Babcock 18 million is no problem.

I’m pretty sure that the quoted number is inaccurate. Pretty sure babs got $8m the first few seasons even the first 4. The deal was heavily front loaded

 

[MarnerElite]

Yeah I don't give a **** if it's the players or the coach who's the problem, said this about 10000x the last month.

But I have been proclaiming for years now what a complete moron this clown of a coach is and have been mocked, belittled and scoffed at most of it. Weird enough a lot of folks who did that to me seemed to have switched to my side now.

Plus what would "leaving" the forum do? Couldn't I just come back under another account? I sense you got a bit of a bone to pick with me, let it loose my friend.

In the first sentence you say you don't care who's the problem..In the second you say you have hated him for years and have basically decided he has been the problem for years now..You're showing too much emotion against someone you've already disliked for a long time now. As i said before, fix shit in your life so you don't have to hate other people who are losing their jobs because people like you want them gone just because you don't like something they do. If you had said at least something like 'it's time because he had his chance for a few years already'..ok fine, fair enough...Coaches do have expiration dates and so whatever. But you make it seem like you know for sure he is a bad coach while literally having no argument to prove that(except the silly 'he had a great team in Detroit' bs which is so stupid because he even has more talent now..in terms of more skill and depth..so it's clearly not just about talent alone). And he's bad compared to whom? Scotty f***ing Bowman? Yeah in that case he's shit and so is every other coach in the league pretty much.

I'll look forward to seeing you complain about the next guy in about a year's time though..So you can tell us all who we should get after that. It's such a f***ing waste of time complaining about coaches and i've been around listening to people bitch about Maurice, Wilson, Carlyle, etc..it's always same shit and how far has that gotten us? Still the same shitty team(in fact i would rather watch some of those other teams..at least it was more entertaining and players showed more intensity).

 

[paulhiggins]

That game looked as much a "last game" as I've ever seen someone coach in. I think he's done, later today. That'll be a start but it ain't over!

The new coach will be interim only, the offseason will have the new GM pick his own coach.

 

[saffronleaf]

No excuses... Babs should be fired but I'll give him till Christmas break.

Then you are willing to miss the playoffs this year. There's no way we'll repeat history a la St. Louis, that's a pipe dream.

 

[The Lemonheads]

Imagine being this bad at your job and making over 6 million.

Man I could coach the team this poorly too and I’ll do it for way less

I agree something is rotten. And Babcock needs to change, fast. Yesterday fast.

But no, you would do 100x worse. You don't know anything about coaching professionally.

That being said, the only thing that can be done is getting rid of Babcock.

I still wouldn't pull the trigger. I think it's still too soon.

 

[Kurtz]

Then you are willing to miss the playoffs this year. There's no way we'll repeat history a la St. Louis, that's a pipe dream.

Not only willing to miss the playoffs, but also choosing to watch trash, unwatchable hockey and seeing the trade value of all of our players erode daily.

Such an odd comment that was.

 

[Kurtz]

No, you would do 100x worse. You don't know anything about coaching professionally.

Neither does our current coach.

The past 2 seasons the team has looked progressively worse with every game that Babs has "coached" them. Refer to Biotik's posts above.

Perhaps having no coach at all would have been more advantageous.

 

[Giuseppe Sallo]

Dubas & Babs walk into a bar, in vegas... Tells Babs he's gone.

Kyle sees Pete Horechek...

And says "do you want a job?"

 

[The Lemonheads]

Neither does our current coach.

The past 2 seasons the team has looked progressively worse with every game that Babs has "coached" them. Refer to Biotik's posts above.

Perhaps having no coach at all would have been more advantageous.

Babcock doesn't know anything about coaching? Don't be so emotional.

He does, but it's not working with Toronto ATM. I agree he's doing a terrible job this season but I'm not panicking in November.

I'm not defending anything up until this point, but I'm not saying he can't figure something out.

I'd give him another month to sort something out while searching for a suitable replacement incase this continues, which is a very, very strong possibility.

 

[Lightsol]

For those who still don't understand the coach is demanding his players play in a manner that goes against their instincts, please explain what happened to Barrie?

In the 1st game of the season, October 2, Barrie had 2 assists, 6 shots and pulled off 2 spin moves.

The first one was exiting the D-zone with the puck and the the guy pursuing him wound up on his ass.

The second one was while stationary at the point:



So what happened to Tyson Barrie?

Did he just turn into a **** hockey player all of sudden or was he ordered not to take chances like that and now plays against his instincts which made him a high impact offensive d-man in the NHL?

And the thing is, you can do this for the vast majority of players on this roster. When they all got here? Played their style. After a short time on the team? Suddenly they're playing the Babcock way. The one that REALLY gets me is Jake Muzzin. He used to hit. A lot. Now he doesn't.