Confirmed Trade: Zibanejad for Brassard Part II.

[TheTakedown]

I just want to respectively address this.

It's not that you're old, it's that two of your top players (Nash and Lundqvist) are getting old and are suffering from a decline, and those guys are hard to replace. Then you have the fact that guys like Girardi and Staal have declined as well.

I'm not saying you're doomed, I actually really like this trade for you guys. But a re-tool is necessary to avoid becoming the Canucks. It seems your management is fully aware though, so you should be good. And like you said, you have lots of good young players and you just added one too.

don't listen to him. You're right, half of our team is in decline while half is on the rise/up and coming.

We needed a reset. Quite frankly, I'm expecting to miss the playoffs this year

 

[Benjamin]

This is a strange move for Ottawa, this is a move a contender makes but Ottawa is not a contender nor are they all that close Ottawa needs a #1 centre not another #2 also they took on a ton of cap zibby makes 2.6 million Bassard makes. Million pet for 3 more years.

I won't say they aren't better they are but that doesn't mean this is the right move.

I think this id the wrong guy to bring in.

Cap hit doesn't matter for the Sens. We save real money from this trade.

 

[Scrub*]

the last thread closed but their was a comment near the end talking how Ottawa and New york's offense are different and asked for facts...Actually last year Ottawa had 230 goals and Rangers had 233 meaning they were the same.

And yes, the Rangers have a few more players exiting their prime, the Sens have more players in it or about to be. hasn't the talk for the Rangers been about getting younger?

 

[Do Make Say Think]

Ottawa is probably the second best team in the division now (barring catastrophic injury of course)

Florida going full analytics is a wildcard and the other teams (outside of Tampa who is the undisputed number 1 in the division) all have glaring holes/deficiencies.

 

[SLAPSHOT723]

Still think the Rangers win this. If not in the short term then definitely in the long term.

 

[Adele Dazeem]

Fans from the outside are looking at Mika and thinking 23-year old Swede, hit 50 points lat season, due for a breakthrough. But if you actually watched 90% of the games (like I did), Mika was one of the most uninspiring players out there along with Chiasson. He was either a ghost most of the time or plays died when he touched the puck. He's got the skill but he lacks a superstar's poise.

 

[WesMcCauley]

Fans from the outside are looking at Mika and thinking 23-year old Swede, hit 50 points lat season, due for a breakthrough. But if you actually watched 90% of the games (like I did), Mika was one of the most uninspiring players out there along with Chiasson. He was either a ghost most of the time or plays died when he touched the puck. He's got the skill but he lacks a superstar's poise.

He is 23. Brass had his best season this season as a 28 year old...

 

[DrunkUncleDenis]

Fans from the outside are looking at Mika and thinking 23-year old Swede, hit 50 points lat season, due for a breakthrough. But if you actually watched 90% of the games (like I did), Mika was one of the most uninspiring players out there along with Chiasson. He was either a ghost most of the time or plays died when he touched the puck. He's got the skill but he lacks a superstar's poise.

This is very important. For the last 3 years, we've been waiting for Mika to take the next step and break out. Although his numbers have improved steadily, he lacks dedication (showing up to camp out of shape for 2 straight years) and on-ice drive. It's not that he's a total floater, but the extra gear is never there. If Turris didn't get injured I'd hazard to guess he never breaks 45 points. He was passed by Pageau in the depth chart for the last third of the year.

It's a classic "all the tools, no toolbox". He has the raw talent. But I think he lacks the vision required for a bonafide first liner. I like the kid and I hope he succeeds but I'm not betting the house on it.

 

[TheTakedown]

Fans from the outside are looking at Mika and thinking 23-year old Swede, hit 50 points lat season, due for a breakthrough. But if you actually watched 90% of the games (like I did), Mika was one of the most uninspiring players out there along with Chiasson. He was either a ghost most of the time or plays died when he touched the puck. He's got the skill but he lacks a superstar's poise.

Brassard was this way when he was in columbus at age 25. He came to the Rangers and exploded

This is very important. For the last 3 years, we've been waiting for Mika to take the next step and break out. Although his numbers have improved steadily, he lacks dedication (showing up to camp out of shape for 2 straight years) and on-ice drive. It's not that he's a total floater, but the extra gear is never there. If Turris didn't get injured I'd hazard to guess he never breaks 45 points. He was passed by Pageau in the depth chart for the last third of the year.

It's a classic "all the tools, no toolbox". He has the raw talent. But I think he lacks the vision required for a bonafide first liner. I like the kid and I hope he succeeds but I'm not betting the house on it.

Some guys need a change of scenery. I'm one that thinks the same thing could happen with Chris Kreider on our team -- all tools, toolbox isn't quite there yet, but he'll never break out here.

 

[DrunkUncleDenis]

Brassard was this way when he was in columbus at age 25. He came to the Rangers and exploded

Zib very well could explode. That's what Sens fans disapproving this trade think will happen. The other half of us think it's never coming. Time will tell.

 

[DrunkUncleDenis]

Some guys need a change of scenery. I'm one that thinks the same thing could happen with Chris Kreider on our team -- all tools, toolbox isn't quite there yet, but he'll never break out here.

Yep, you're totally right. But one thing you can't teach or wait for is vision, as I mentioned previously. And vision relates to playmaking, unsurprisingly one of Zibby's biggest pitfalls. He never wants to hold or carry the puck. Honestly, his game is better suited to the wing.

 

[KevinRedkey]

He is 23. Brass had his best season this season as a 28 year old...

With that logic, Brassard will peak in 3 years because that's how Martin St.Louis was when he had his career year (31).

We can look at this a million different ways. Ottawa got better. New York got younger. That's what needs to be looked at. Time will tell the rest (who won).

 

[SpezDispenser]

Fans from the outside are looking at Mika and thinking 23-year old Swede, hit 50 points lat season, due for a breakthrough. But if you actually watched 90% of the games (like I did), Mika was one of the most uninspiring players out there along with Chiasson. He was either a ghost most of the time or plays died when he touched the puck. He's got the skill but he lacks a superstar's poise.

OT: That was one of the funniest things I've ever seen, when Travolta butchered that singer's name at the Oscars.

 

[Finnish your Czech]

Ottawa is probably the second best team in the division now (barring catastrophic injury of course)

Florida going full analytics is a wildcard and the other teams (outside of Tampa who is the undisputed number 1 in the division) all have glaring holes/deficiencies.

I rate Florida and Montreal ahead of Ottawa

 

[Charliebox]

First post in awhile. Had to chime in.

I'm loving this trade for the Sens. Brassard is what he is and that's fine. The return isn't even what I'm loving.

I am honestly loving the fact that I don't have to scream at my TV for 2.5 hours, three times a week anymore. Zibby was my whipping boy for sure. Since the days of Alex Daigle, I have never seen more of a lack of interest in a full NHL season than I saw from Zibby last year. I'm not joking. The guy seemed completely disinterested. He was one of the bigger players on the ice, but he never won a puck battle and was way to easy to push off the puck when he already had it.

It would not surprise me if he comes into next season with a fire under his butt and actually produces. Thing is, he wasn't going to do it in Ottawa, and if he did, he would have left the Sens with a really difficult decision. Even if he had a similar season as last year, the stats would have said he was a 5M player. A budget team like the Sens can't afford to pay players with inflated stats that much money. Regardless of how well he played, money and what he is worth was going to start being an issue next summer. I'm glad that we won't have to worry about it.

All that said, #1 reason why I am glad to see him go is simple: He does not have the game to translate as a top 6 center. Winger, maybe.. but definitely not a center. He simply does not have good vision and can't stickhandle. He uses a ridiculous curve, which means doing anything on the backhand side (giving or receiving passes) is near impossible (this is why Ryan never had the puck).

To me a top 6 center needs to have a high hockey IQ and a good pair of hands. He has neither. Zibby should either be a winger, or a North/South 3L center who plays with energy guys. Unfortunately, that ship has sailed, at least in Ottawa.

I'm tired of watching him drag down our top 6 wingers. He was given two of our three most skilled wingers, 1st line PP time and more overall icetime last season and his development actually took a step back. It is physically impossible to give a player a better opportunity than that.

 

[KevinRedkey]

First post in awhile. Had to chime in.

I'm loving this trade for the Sens. Brassard is what he is and that's fine. The return isn't even what I'm loving.

I am honestly loving the fact that I don't have to scream at my TV for 2.5 hours, three times a week anymore. Zibby was my whipping boy for sure. Since the days of Alex Daigle, I have never seen more of a lack of interest in a full NHL season than I saw from Zibby last year. I'm not joking. The guy seemed completely disinterested. He was one of the bigger players on the ice, but he never won a puck battle and was way to easy to push off the puck when he already had it.

It would not surprise me if he comes into next season with a fire under his butt and actually produces. Thing is, he wasn't going to do it in Ottawa, and if he did, he would have left the Sens with a really difficult decision. Even if he had a similar season as last year, the stats would have said he was a 5M player. A budget team like the Sens can't afford to pay players with inflated stats that much money. Regardless of how well he played, money and what he is worth was going to start being an issue next summer. I'm glad that we won't have to worry about it.

All that said, #1 reason why I am glad to see him go is simple: He does not have the game to translate as a top 6 center. Winger, maybe.. but definitely not a center. He simply does not have good vision and can't stickhandle. He uses a ridiculous curve, which means doing anything on the backhand side (giving or receiving passes) is near impossible (this is why Ryan never had the puck).

To me a top 6 center needs to have a high hockey IQ and a good pair of hands. He has neither. Zibby should either be a winger, or a North/South 3L center who plays with energy guys. Unfortunately, that ship has sailed, at least in Ottawa.

I'm tired of watching him drag down our top 6 wingers. He was given two of our three most skilled wingers, 1st line PP time and more overall icetime last season and his development actually took a step back. It is physically impossible to give a player a better opportunity than that.

This 100%

 

[Samsquanch]

It was a good trade for both teams, but NYR get more benefit from it. Let's see if they'll ever use that pick...

Please define "more benefit"....

That seems to be the running monologue, but not sure that I understand…

The Sens are a young team that is desperate to move from being a bubble team into one of the better teams in the east. They also desperately needed a LH playmaking center. Most their good players are in the primes of their careers, so it makes complete sense to try and make a push towards becoming a contender, even if it cost Zibby and 2018 2nd round pick (which is of absolutely no use to them in the next 5 years).

People keep saying they dont get it from Ottawa's perspective, or that they aren’t close enough to being contenders to try and improve their team. I think that’s complete BS. Unless you’re at the very start of a rebuild, which the Sens are clearly not, any time you can improve your team by adding an impact player in exchange for a wildcard and a future 2nd round pick, that’s a move you have to make.

If they didnt start making some proactive moves towards becoming a better team, then eventually they would have started to lose assets like Karlsson. You can’t wait forever for the picks and prospects to save the day.

 

[jason2020]

Still think the Rangers win this. If not in the short term then definitely in the long term.

The only way they win it is if Zib shows up to camp in shape and gains a new edge stop backing away from big hits etc.

 

[danielpalfredsson]

I don't know... I'm not a Sens expert, but for me, those offensive lines are not "contender" material. Turris had a very disapointing season last year, same goes with Ryan (even if it was not as bad). I really like Brassard and Stone and Hoffman, but the real firepower comes from Karlsson anyway.

Not a bad team, but even if I wouldn't put any money on it, I wouldn't be suprise if they even miss the playoff.

Turris' production last season wasn't disappointing when you look at the context.

He had 11 goals and 22 points in the first 25 games. That's a 40/70 pace. Obviously, small sample sizes should be taken with a grain of salt, but he was well on his way to finishing with his usual consistent 25 goal 60 point type numbers.

In a December 5th game against the Islanders he went all gumby and ****ed up his leg. The Sens kept playing him and he was terrible because he was playing as a cripple. It isn't a coincidence that his numbers plummeted right after he twisted his leg in 32 different directions. The Senators eventually shut him down.

Ryan has been disappointing every year since being a Senator. He can be the team's top offensive driver when he is on, but he has been inconsistent, and it feels like Sens fans go through the same thing every off season where it is like "nah this is gonna be the year where we see the real Bobby Ryan, he broke his (insert freak injury/reason for half season cold streak) last year, he'll be good now." With that said, Ryan's disappointing numbers are a reason why the Brassard trade is a positive. He has never had a left handed skilled playmaking centre to play with in Ottawa. It is almost as if he has had to transform his game playing with Zibanejad and has to be more of a playmaker and even at times the grinder on that line. Ryan was good with Turris at times, but being a right handed centre it changes the dynamic of setting him up. If you want a buy low opportunity for a fantasy hockey team, and everybody in your league has caught on to Ryan being a dud the last three years, he might be a sleeper to have a huge season if he is paired with Brassard.

 

[JT Kreider]

First post in awhile. Had to chime in.

I'm loving this trade for the Sens. Brassard is what he is and that's fine. The return isn't even what I'm loving.

I am honestly loving the fact that I don't have to scream at my TV for 2.5 hours, three times a week anymore. Zibby was my whipping boy for sure. Since the days of Alex Daigle, I have never seen more of a lack of interest in a full NHL season than I saw from Zibby last year. I'm not joking. The guy seemed completely disinterested. He was one of the bigger players on the ice, but he never won a puck battle and was way to easy to push off the puck when he already had it.

It would not surprise me if he comes into next season with a fire under his butt and actually produces. Thing is, he wasn't going to do it in Ottawa, and if he did, he would have left the Sens with a really difficult decision. Even if he had a similar season as last year, the stats would have said he was a 5M player. A budget team like the Sens can't afford to pay players with inflated stats that much money. Regardless of how well he played, money and what he is worth was going to start being an issue next summer. I'm glad that we won't have to worry about it.

All that said, #1 reason why I am glad to see him go is simple: He does not have the game to translate as a top 6 center. Winger, maybe.. but definitely not a center. He simply does not have good vision and can't stickhandle. He uses a ridiculous curve, which means doing anything on the backhand side (giving or receiving passes) is near impossible (this is why Ryan never had the puck).

To me a top 6 center needs to have a high hockey IQ and a good pair of hands. He has neither. Zibby should either be a winger, or a North/South 3L center who plays with energy guys. Unfortunately, that ship has sailed, at least in Ottawa.

I'm tired of watching him drag down our top 6 wingers. He was given two of our three most skilled wingers, 1st line PP time and more overall icetime last season and his development actually took a step back. It is physically impossible to give a player a better opportunity than that.

This post is basically the HF version of that behind-the-scenes video of the Bruins brain trust deciding it was time to trade Seguin.

 

[Finnish your Czech]

Please define "more benefit"....

That seems to be the running monologue, but not sure that I understand…

The Sens are a young team that is desperate to move from being a bubble team into one of the better teams in the east. They also desperately needed a LH playmaking center. Most their good players are in the primes of their careers, so it makes complete sense to try and make a push towards becoming a contender, even if it cost Zibby and 2018 2nd round pick (which is of absolutely no use to them in the next 5 years).

People keep saying they dont get it from Ottawa's perspective, or that they aren’t close enough to being contenders to try and improve their team. I think that’s complete BS. Unless you’re at the very start of a rebuild, which the Sens are clearly not, any time you can improve your team by adding an impact player in exchange for a wildcard and a future 2nd round pick, that’s a move you have to make.

If they didnt start making some proactive moves towards becoming a better team, then eventually they would have started to lose assets like Karlsson. You can’t wait forever for the picks and prospects to save the day.

I didn't say it was a bad move for Ottawa? I'm just saying I like it more for NYR because I don't think their is a large gap between Zibanejad and Brassard, but I still think it's a good move for Ottawa for the reasons you mentioned above.

 

[WesMcCauley]

Please define "more benefit"....

That seems to be the running monologue, but not sure that I understand…

The Sens are a young team that is desperate to move from being a bubble team into one of the better teams in the east. They also desperately needed a LH playmaking center. Most their good players are in the primes of their careers, so it makes complete sense to try and make a push towards becoming a contender, even if it cost Zibby and 2018 2nd round pick (which is of absolutely no use to them in the next 5 years).

People keep saying they dont get it from Ottawa's perspective, or that they aren’t close enough to being contenders to try and improve their team. I think that’s complete BS. Unless you’re at the very start of a rebuild, which the Sens are clearly not, any time you can improve your team by adding an impact player in exchange for a wildcard and a future 2nd round pick, that’s a move you have to make.

If they didnt start making some proactive moves towards becoming a better team, then eventually they would have started to lose assets like Karlsson. You can’t wait forever for the picks and prospects to save the day.

The problem for Ott is that Brass isnt that much better than Zib atm. Its not a huge upgrade for Ott.
Ott fans talk about Brass like he is elite and Zib beeing useless when Brass isnt that much better than him. He has broken 20 goals one time. Zib has already done it twice at 23. Brass is not very good defensivly at all, lazy backchecker and loses coverage alot in the defensive sone. Very good playmaker and great slapshot. Its not a huge upgrade and losing a 2nd rounder and getting 6 years older, i dont see how this is very good for Ott.

 

[BonkTastic]

Fans from the outside are looking at Mika and thinking 23-year old Swede, hit 50 points lat season, due for a breakthrough. But if you actually watched 90% of the games (like I did), Mika was one of the most uninspiring players out there along with Chiasson. He was either a ghost most of the time or plays died when he touched the puck. He's got the skill but he lacks a superstar's poise.

Plus, his season didn't pick up until Turris got hurt and unsuccessfully tried to play through the injury, and Zib became the #1C by default because we didn't have anyone else to fill the role.

Even with literally no one to challenge him for the top center role, he was so uninspired that Pageau probably outplayed him in the last quarter of the season, and while I loves me some JG Pageau, the fact that he looked more comfortable playing important minutes than Zibanejad did really casts some shadows on Zibby's game.

 

[Eb]

I voted even trade yesterday in the poll.

Rangers look to the future while Sens get the better player right now while saving real $ as well with how Brassard's contract was front loaded.

Still don't think this puts the Sens to contender status. Playoffs a good possibility though.

 

[Do Make Say Think]

I rate Florida and Montreal ahead of Ottawa

Florida is a maybe be for me, I'm not at all convinced the "balls to the wall analytics" approach is that great but am open to the possibility that it is.

Montreal has little offense and losing Subban means their transition game is going to suffer considerably (Weber is going to make them much better defensively though). Price has the ability to steal wins upon wins but he hasn't played in a while, not sold on him ever getting back to the top of his game.