Confirmed with Link: Zibanejad, 2nd to NYR for Brassard, 7th

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RedWhiteBlackGold

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Rangers are being smart by re-tooling their roster. They realize their time as contenders is up, and they got amazing value trading Brassard for a slightly worse player who's 6 years younger and is still developing + a 2nd.

The difference between Brassard and Zibanejad won't be the reason we go far in post-season. If we get to the 3rd round it won't be because of this trade. More than likely the other 20 guys on the roster and the coaching staff will be the reason if this team goes far in the playoffs.

How come Ranger fans say Brassard scores goals when the game matters? If we get to the 3rd round, I would think it's partially due to this trade. Sure 20 other guys would have helped to get us there, but who's to say Brass doesn't seal the deal on a couple of key games that Zibby would have floated around in?

I understand the 2nd round pick being bad, and Zibby being a long term investment. I see the potential in him, just not confident he reaches it.
 

Hale The Villain

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How come Ranger fans say Brassard scores goals when the game matters? If we get to the 3rd round, I would think it's partially due to this trade. Sure 20 other guys would have helped to get us there, but who's to say Brass doesn't seal the deal on a couple of key games that Zibby would have floated around in?

That's certainly possible. It's also possible that Zibanejad could have come up big in the playoffs for us. We also could have dealt the 2018 2nd for a player at the deadline who could also help us.

Generally when you trade significant futures for a player you expect that your team will get significantly better. I don't believe this trade has accomplished that.

Does anyone really believe this team is destined for greatness simply because we upgraded from Zibanejad's 51 points to Brassard's 58 points?
 

RedWhiteBlackGold

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That's certainly possible. It's also possible that Zibanejad could have come up big in the playoffs for us. We also could have dealt the 2018 2nd for a player at the deadline who could also help us.

Generally when you trade significant futures for a player you expect that your team will get significantly better. I don't believe this trade has accomplished that.

Does anyone really believe this team is destined for greatness simply because we upgraded from Zibanejad's 51 points to Brassard's 58 points?

I think this team has gotten better with Brassard being our 2nd line center than going ahead with Zibby. Brass is like 2-3 years ahead of where I hope Zibby gets to, but he also never really had much chemistry with the top 6. Maybe Brass is a better fit at finding Ryan and Hoffman. Time will tell.
 

MarkStone

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That's certainly possible. It's also possible that Zibanejad could have come up big in the playoffs for us. We also could have dealt the 2018 2nd for a player at the deadline who could also help us.

Generally when you trade significant futures for a player you expect that your team will get significantly better. I don't believe this trade has accomplished that.

Does anyone really believe this team is destined for greatness simply because we upgraded from Zibanejad's 51 points to Brassard's 58 points?

Probably an exaggeration and inaccurate to say greatness but it likely makes us better next year. It also serves as a statement of intent to our franchise player that we do intend to improve our place in the standings and compete for the next few years of his contract.
It was a trade we were able to make with Brown, and White in the system.
 

HSF

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Sep 3, 2008
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Best player sure, but for how long?

Brassard is 29
Zibanejad is 23

Decent chance Zibanejad bridges the gap in the next 3 years. After that Brassard will be 32 and probably looking for another team on July 1st, while Zibanejad will be just entering his prime at 26, and likely signed long-term.

Again unless we win the cup in the next 3 years (can't see it), this trade will be absolute highway robbery for the Rangers.

No one knows how long. We got the better player who is in his prime years.

There is also a good chance that zibby doesn't improve and is what he is and that Brassard resigns here in 3 years.....who knows


Sens have a lot of young players anyways they gotta go for it while Karlsson is in his prime. Good teams take risks
 

BondraTime

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Nov 20, 2005
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It's not the point totals, it's the fit for our respective team.

Zib as a 2nd line center fit nobody. He isn't a playmaker, and he would be paired with 2 scorers who either had to alter their game, or get the pucks themselves. Stone was our only playmaker in the top 6, Brassard brings us 2 very balanced top lines, and greatly improves our anemic power play. Zib had an unreal one timer on the PP, it's a shame he'd only get it off once every 30 games.

No doubt Zib is a great player, and if we had a Spezza, or another elite playmaker as our 1st line Center, he would fit in nicely as our 2nd line guy.

We have Turris, who although he can pass the puck, is not a playmaker. We basically got another version of Turris, who is a playmaker. It is perfect for us.

In a vacuum, we shouldn't have had to give up a 2nd. That's life when money is a big factor in your teams day to day business.

Did we overpay? Yes, by a little bit.

Are we a better team for it? Absolutely, 100% a much improved, more balanced top 6.
 
Jan 8, 2012
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I'm telling you guys - Brassard lives for the playoffs. Come April, he's anything but just a 60 point guy. Here's what he did when we were on the brink of elimination two years ago.



I think he also had two assists that the video might not show.

I'm sure I'm not the only NYR fan who thinks we won the trade, but is still upset about it today. One of the few players who came to NY and became a better player. Take good care of him.
 

Burrowsaurus

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Probably an exaggeration and inaccurate to say greatness but it likely makes us better next year. It also serves as a statement of intent to our franchise player that we do intend to improve our place in the standings and compete for the next few years of his contract.
It was a trade we were able to make with Brown, and White in the system.
Not sure how it signals that though. This year I'm willing to bet they will be very similar players. This trade was honestly a little bit of a letdown.
 

Burrowsaurus

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No one knows how long. We got the better player who is in his prime years.

There is also a good chance that zibby doesn't improve and is what he is and that Brassard resigns here in 3 years.....who knows


Sens have a lot of young players anyways they gotta go for it while Karlsson is in his prime. Good teams take risks

So a player is what he is at 23 but brassard is in his prime at 29? What.
 

Micklebot

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That's certainly possible. It's also possible that Zibanejad could have come up big in the playoffs for us. We also could have dealt the 2018 2nd for a player at the deadline who could also help us.

Generally when you trade significant futures for a player you expect that your team will get significantly better. I don't believe this trade has accomplished that.

Does anyone really believe this team is destined for greatness simply because we upgraded from Zibanejad's 51 points to Brassard's 58 points?

When the ducks traded Hagelin for Peron, neither team got a significantly better player, but both teams got a significantly better fit, and it had significant impact on each team. Brassard for Zibanejad was a case of Ottawa finding a similar quality player (slight upgrade mind you) that appears to be significantly better fit for the team.
 

Burrowsaurus

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When the ducks traded Hagelin for Peron, neither team got a significantly better player, but both teams got a significantly better fit, and it had significant impact on each team. Brassard for Zibanejad was a case of Ottawa finding a similar quality player (slight upgrade mind you) that appears to be significantly better fit for the team.

This is definitely a fair point. But I'm not personally ready to call brassard a better fit until I see him fit in. As of now. I don't like it. If brassard is a key cog in team success for the next 3 years then I can change my mind. I do like that he has experience playing the wing.
 

Nac Mac Feegle

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This is definitely a fair point. But I'm not personally ready to call brassard a better fit until I see him fit in. As of now. I don't like it. If brassard is a key cog in team success for the next 3 years then I can change my mind. I do like that he has experience playing the wing.

Agreed.

Hell, we don't even know if the new coaching staff will be a 'fit' with the roster. We don't even know if Dorion has what it takes to be a GM. Everything is up in the air right now.

I guess it's all perspective. We're in an area of massive risk right now. A lot of things could go right...a lot of things could turn into disasters....or we might get a weird mix and stay exactly where we are now in bubbleland.

I was really optimistic a month or two ago....but I dunno. The draft, the coaching hires and this trade.....so much change in such little time. I don't know what to think.
 

trentmccleary

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Zibanejad won't make 5M a season on his next deal. He's an RFA, not a UFA. He has very little negotiating power. If he has another 40-50 point season in 2016/17 he'll get a 4-6 year deal for around 4M per season, just like other comparable young centers like Kadri, Bjugstad, Henrique.

Sens would have given him a back-loaded contract like they have given every young RFA in the organization. While the average would be around 4M, the salary paid in 2017/18 and 2018/19 would be much less. Probably about the same or less than Brassard makes (3.5M) in those years.

Also why you think we'd sign Zibanejad to a 2 year deal and why we'd ever put ourselves in a situation to lose him to UFA without getting many years out of him, is beyond me. If we had kept Zibanejad we could have signed him for 5+ years, which is a lot more valuable than 3 years of Brassard.

Look, I think we clearly lost the asset management game in this trade. I would have slammed it if it was offered on the trade board. This trade is more in the vein of a trade deadline deal that a team will make to push forward. But this team is making a push. I'm still pretty euphoric after the Phaneuf deal. I want to see where this ride takes me.

Ottawa is clearly making a push forward. Are they going to be good enough to win a Cup? Nope, the budget restrictions/ lack of tank rebuild will ensure that never happens. Is it possible that we'll be better in the next 3 seasons than at any time in the next 10 years with Zibanejad. I'd say that's pretty likely. EK is peaking now. The depth around him is good and cheap. IMO, while we gave up a lot, this move puts us a lot closer to making some noise in the playoffs (2nd or 3rd round). That's our Cup until the financial situation changes and I accept that.

Zibanejad instead of Brassard the next 3 seasons. We need to acknowledge the fact that while Zibby is young and talented, he's not a very a good center. If we didn't have $7M locked into Ryan, we would have moved him over by now and gotten another top-6 center. Brassard is a center and a pretty good one. Even if he doesn't produce any more than Zibanejad does, he could help us more by making Ryan better, improving our PP and helping our defense by being more patient in the offensive zone. Plus, once we get to the playoffs; he has a history of coming up big in the postseason that Zibanejad does not yet have.

I'm on the fence about the deal. We gave up a lot. But it's a signal that the team doesn't just expect to barely make the playoffs and be out in the first round. This management team expects us to start winning rounds and will do whatever it takes to achieve within the strict confines of the budget imposed on them.

Basically, spin our wheels with guys like Zibanejad for the next half dozen years or try to make something happen for the next 3 years.

Contracts... Zibanejad is a UFA in the same 3 years as Brassard, nothing will change that. Maybe we re-sign Brassard and let Zibanejad go. Maybe we sign Zibanejad and they sign Brassard. Maybe Brassard and Zibanejad retire, get married, move to Vermont and open a bed and breakfast. Who knows.

Zibby's RFA deal? Zibby will have 3 seasons around 50 points. He will want to get paid. Bridge deals typically go to players with a 1 year track record. He'll cost closer to $5M.
 

Boud

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Scheifele just got 6 and while he's better than Zibby, I could easily see the Rangers sign Zibby to a 5-6 year deal around 5M. It all depends on this season, but if he puts up 50 points again he'll make 5M.

Zibby already signed his bridge deal, next contract he gets will be longer and the Rangers will want the security of locking in some of his UFA years which they'll have to pay for.
 

NyQuil

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It really depends on whether you think Zibanejad has a lot of capacity for improvement.

I suspect the Ottawa fanbase is divided.
 

Boud

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Dec 27, 2011
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Man, I think Brassard and Stone are gonna be Magic together.

Brassard is essentially a more skilled Pageau.

Well, Pageau is a lot more physical and edgy than Brassard.

He's also much better defensively than Brassard. Pageau has nowhere near the vision though and less skill like you say.

Pageau is also much faster... Can't really see the comparison here.

The only things they have in common is they play hard when it matters and both are smallish
 

operasen

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Apr 27, 2004
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I concur. And the total team intensity is raised by this swap. That's a good thing.

Let Lazar find a niche and create within it, turn Hoffman lose, add even more speed in Dzingel. There is even more intensity right there to find.
 

danielpalfredsson

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Aug 14, 2013
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Kreider signed at 4.6.

I wonder if the Rangers still make this trade if they weren't so close to the cap, and they were able to dump Nash. I'm not suggesting the trade is lopsided, it is obviously a very fair potentially win-win trade for both sides, but the Rangers only had 8.6M in cap prior to the trade with Kreider and Hayes still having to be dealt with. Without the trade, that would leave them at 4 right now with Hayes still left to sign.
 

playasRus

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If we make the playoffs, and Brassard doesn't flop (less than 50pts), I'm happy with this trade.
 

Baby Ryan

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Agreed.

Hell, we don't even know if the new coaching staff will be a 'fit' with the roster. We don't even know if Dorion has what it takes to be a GM. Everything is up in the air right now.

I guess it's all perspective. We're in an area of massive risk right now. A lot of things could go right...a lot of things could turn into disasters....or we might get a weird mix and stay exactly where we are now in bubbleland.

I was really optimistic a month or two ago....but I dunno. The draft, the coaching hires and this trade.....so much change in such little time. I don't know what to think.

Its been the same every previous season though.

We go into the season hoping that the young guns will improve, we go into the season hoping the coaching staff has a better impact, we always go into the season with a bunch of question marks. Difference is, those question marks were relatively similar in the sense that they weren't based on any significant changes (aka, coaching, etc).

Its like standing still in the world and letting everything move, in the hopes that you will move with it.

The only recent significant changes have been Ryan and Spezza, however both also hinged greatly on the younger players growing into their roles as well (Cowen, Wiercioch, Ceci, at the time). Perhaps too much in several positions on the team.
This time is different with the new young guns pushing for less significant roles.

You have to take risks sometimes, can't just sit still hoping forever. It just doesn't work that way, the best teams take risks somewhere significant (L.A Carter change, coaching change, Tampa coaching, etc)
 
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DrunkUncleDenis

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Mar 27, 2012
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I am glad we did the trade. It is a move to try to start winning games with a solid team. I don't want to sit around and wait for our 2C to eventually develop.

Dorion recognizes that Brown and White will come into the fold. If Zib was still around he'd get pushed out anyways, due to him making more money, or performance, whatever. Zib will never be a 1C. We could even see Turris get moved near the end of his deal if we re-sign Brassard and Brass isn't slowing down when B&W come in.

At some point you gotta stop waiting for development (especially when Zib has been around for 5 years and hasn't shown the heart needed to be a leader down the middle) and start to go for it. The 2nd was about money, let's get over it.
 
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