Zetterberg - Forsberg - Alfredsson Or M. Tkachuk - Malkin - Rantanen?

[Golden_Jet]

Tkachuk is not close to Forsberg all due respect.
I'd rate Zetterberg over Alfredsson too.

Ok, but there on the same team.

 

[HFpapi]

Player for player, in terms of career accomplishments, talent, and projected accomplishments, I think you can reasonably make the argument that

Malkin > Forberg
Tkachuk > Zetterberg
Rantanen > Alfredsson

But....

Imagining them actually on the ice together as a functional line, I think the Swedes work much better in practice and bring way more diversity of skill sets to the table. Their offensive ability combined with their grit and shut down ability is insane.

It's the same principal whereby I could see 5 Bergerons beating 5 Gretzkys but 99 is miles better if you can only have one of each.

 

[NyQuil]

DPE guys.

 

[Neutrinos]

Tkachuk is the weak link here. I'd rather have Zetterberg than Tkachuk.

And I'd rather have Tkachuk over Alfredsson... so why isn't Alfredsson the weak link?

Very close voted Malkin line since hes the best player all time here

L1 could be better though.

This idea that Malkin is/was better than Forsberg doesn't seem to be based on actual production...

Forsberg

Regular season
977 adj. points in 708 games
1.38 adj. PPG = 113 points per 82 games

Playoffs
171 points in 151 games
1.13 PPG = 93 points per 82 games


Malkin

Regular season
1271 adj. points in 981 games
1.29 adj. PPG = 106 points per 82 games

Playoffs
180 points in 177 games
1.02 PPG = 83 points per 82 games

 

[Video Nasty]

And I'd rather have Tkachuk over Alfredsson... so why isn't Alfredsson the weak link?


This idea that Malkin is/was better than Forsberg doesn't seem to be based on actual production...

Forsberg

Regular season
977 adj. points in 708 games
1.38 adj. PPG = 113 points per 82 games

Playoffs
171 points in 151 games
1.13 PPG = 93 points per 82 games


Malkin

Regular season
1271 adj. points in 981 games
1.29 adj. PPG = 106 points per 82 games

Playoffs
180 points in 177 games
1.02 PPG = 83 points per 82 games

Preaching actual production doesn’t jive with then introducing flawed adjusted statistics.

A more important thing to consider is:

Forsberg’s per game numbers are bolstered by the fact that he played a paltry 242 games past the age of 27, and just 68 past the age of 32. He played just 30 games in the playoffs from age 30 on and scored 29 points. His per game numbers are barely affected by the decline we’ve seen from every other superstar ever.

Meanwhile, as injury prone as Malkin is, he has played 627 games past the age of 27, or in other words, 89% of Forsberg’s total career. He also played more games in the playoffs from age 30 on (51 points in 53 games).

None of this factors in being surrounded by the kind of depth that allows Forsberg to miss the entire second half of the 2001 playoffs and see his team still go on to win the Cup.

 

[TGWL]

Going with line 1.

 

[Neutrinos]

Preaching actual production doesn’t jive with then introducing flawed adjusted statistics.

A more important thing to consider is:

Forsberg’s per game numbers are bolstered by the fact that he played a paltry 242 games past the age of 27, and just 68 past the age of 32. He played just 30 games in the playoffs from age 30 on and scored 29 points. His per game numbers are barely affected by the decline we’ve seen from every other superstar ever.

Meanwhile, as injury prone as Malkin is, he has played 627 games past the age of 27, or in other words, 89% of Forsberg’s total career. He also played more games in the playoffs from age 30 on (51 points in 53 games).

None of this factors in being surrounded by the kind of depth that allows Forsberg to miss the entire second half of the 2001 playoffs and see his team still go on to win the Cup.

Feel free to post the stats that show Malkin was more productive than Forsberg...

 

[FriendlyGhost92]

And I'd rather have Tkachuk over Alfredsson... so why isn't Alfredsson the weak link?


This idea that Malkin is/was better than Forsberg doesn't seem to be based on actual production...

Forsberg

Regular season
977 adj. points in 708 games
1.38 adj. PPG = 113 points per 82 games

Playoffs
171 points in 151 games
1.13 PPG = 93 points per 82 games


Malkin

Regular season
1271 adj. points in 981 games
1.29 adj. PPG = 106 points per 82 games

Playoffs
180 points in 177 games
1.02 PPG = 83 points per 82 games

I'd take the Swedes, but Forsberg's career production isn't really an accurate number considering he barely two full seasons worth of games in his 30s.

You never really got that "Fall off" production that other stars get playing in their mid to late 30s to balance the numbers.

 

[Neutrinos]

I'd take the Swedes, but Forsberg's career production isn't really an accurate number considering he played less than 200 games in his 30s.

You never really got that "Fall off" production that other stars get playing in their mid to late 30s.

So, compare their stats from just their prime then...

I'll wait

 

[FriendlyGhost92]

So, compare their stats from just their prime then...

I'll wait

I love that you're getting pissy about this.

 

[Neutrinos]

I love that you're getting pissy about this.

Not at all

And I'm still waiting...

 

[FriendlyGhost92]

Not at all

And I'm still waiting...

Yeah bro not at all. You're totally not mad because you got caught posting bullshit numbers by comparing career production for a guy who barely played in his 30s to a guy who's still going at 38.

 

[Neutrinos]

Yeah bro not at all. You're totally not mad because you got caught posting bullshit numbers by comparing career production for a guy who barely played in his 30s to a guy who's still going at 38.

You keep making this about me...

Let's stay on topic, shall we?

Are you going to post something of substance, or just keep wasting my time?

 

[FriendlyGhost92]

You keep making this about me...

Let's stay on topic, shall we?

Are you going to post something of substance, or just keep wasting my time?

Are you going to stop posting bullshit skewed numbers to pretend like there's a mammoth sized gap between Malkin and Forsberg?

 

[Neutrinos]

Are you going to stop posting bullshit skewed numbers to pretend like there's a mammoth sized gap between Malkin and Forsberg?

Are you going to start posting the non-bullshit, unskwed numbers?

I'm still waiting...

 

[FriendlyGhost92]

Are you going to start posting the non-bullshit, unskwed numbers?

I'm still waiting...

Pretty sure I'm not the one who needs to back up my numbers considering you're the one posting the bullshit.

Bruh we should compare Shayne Ghostisbehere's career numbers to Chris Chelios' too. 40-47 year old seasons and all! Shayne just better offensively. Sorry Chelly.

 

[umma gumma]

And I'd rather have Tkachuk over Alfredsson... so why isn't Alfredsson the weak link?

Alfredsson could do everything Tkachuck can, but their 200ft game is not comparable.

 

[FriendlyGhost92]

Today I learned Mitch Marner and Artemi Panarin are better players than Jaromir Jagr was, because "Career production".

 

[blundluntman]

Taking the former here. Malkin is probably in a tier of his own offensively (I'd say Forsberg isn't too far behind but that's a rabbit hole I have no interest in plunging into), but the gap between the two lines defensively is large enough for that not to matter. The Swedes can be deployed in any situation and will thrive. As long as Forsberg avoids injuries and can play most games and all of the playoffs, I'll lose no sleep over it.

 

[GMR]

Player for player, in terms of career accomplishments, talent, and projected accomplishments, I think you can reasonably make the argument that

Malkin > Forberg
Tkachuk > Zetterberg
Rantanen > Alfredsson

But....

Imagining them actually on the ice together as a functional line, I think the Swedes work much better in practice and bring way more diversity of skill sets to the table. Their offensive ability combined with their grit and shut down ability is insane.

It's the same principal whereby I could see 5 Bergerons beating 5 Gretzkys but 99 is miles better if you can only have one of each.

Zetterberg has a better claim to the HOF than Tkachuk, who has been eligible for like 20 years now. The latter usually disappeared when the playoffs began.

 

[FriendlyGhost92]

Zetterberg has a better claim to the HOF than Tkachuk, who has been eligible for like 20 years now. The latter usually disappeared when the playoffs began.

It's Matthew...

 

[IWantSakicAsMyGM]

Pretty sure I'm not the one who needs to back up my numbers considering you're the one posting the bullshit.

Bruh we should compare Shayne Ghostisbehere's career numbers to Chris Chelios' too. 40-47 year old seasons and all! Shayne just better offensively. Sorry Chelly.

Malkin was still a PPG player as recenty as last season (22-23), so maybe we shouldn't pretend his career numbers are skewed downward by a bunch of seasons where he's a shell of his former self. I agree that career totals aren't a great way to show it, but I'm not seeing any metrics that show Malkin was more productive, as was being claimed. It doesn't matter if you completely ignore their 30s, Forsberg still outperforms Malkin 1.26 PPG to 1.18. Forsberg also has the best single season point total (116 to 113). Just because you want to chide someone for using the wrong stat to prove it doesn't mean his point is wrong.

 

[FriendlyGhost92]

Malkin was still a PPG player as recenty as last season (22-23), so maybe we shouldn't pretend his career numbers are skewed downward by a bunch of seasons where he's a shell of his former self. I agree that career totals aren't a great way to show it, but I'm not seeing any metrics that show Malkin was more productive, as was being claimed. It doesn't matter if you completely ignore their 30s, Forsberg still outperforms Malkin 1.26 PPG to 1.18. Forsberg also has the best single season point total (116 to 113). Just because you want to chide someone for using the wrong stat to prove it doesn't mean his point is wrong.

Uhh, the point isn't really about Malkin's "Dip" in production but about the dip you don't get in Forsberg's production because he didn't play those years.

Not to mention scoring was slightly higher in Forsberg's 21-29 year old seasons compared to Malkin's and in his 116 point season he was 5th in scoring and not close to Lemieux, who was first. To his credit, his 106 point season he was on top of the league.

Uhh it’s not the dad, I assumed.
But good point could be Matthew or Brady, or long shot it’s Keith.

Thread title says "M. Tkachuk".

 

[Golden_Jet]

Uhh, the point isn't really about Malkin's "Dip" in production but about the dip you don't get in Forsberg's production because he didn't play those years.

Not to mention scoring was slightly higher in Forsberg's 21-29 year old seasons compared to Malkin's and in his 116 point season he was 5th in scoring and not close to Lemieux, who was first. To his credit, his 106 point season he was on top of the league.



Thread title says "M. Tkachuk".

Thanks read OP lol

 

[Dingo]

I'd take the Swedes, but Forsberg's career production isn't really an accurate number considering he barely two full seasons worth of games in his 30s.

You never really got that "Fall off" production that other stars get playing in their mid to late 30s to balance the numbers.

whenever doing career points per game, i typically cut players off at 34. it doesnt usually get better after that, and yes, guys like Forsberg and Lindros get an unfair advantage. Guys like Jagr and Hasek get toasted by playing so long.