Prospect Info: Zach Benson, LW/C, Wenatchee (WHL), Signed ELC- 2023, 13th Overall

[TageGod]

If that is how the taller bigger guy uses their size yes, those are great positives.

Just as if the smaller forward uses his size to their advance there are large positives.

Are we honestly going to pretend that players like Marchessault, Kane, Hughes, Kessel, Marner, Marchand, Kellar, Caufield, Spurgeon etc do not use their size to their advantage? Or you think they just persevere through their crippling height and size disability.

Who is pretending anything? Benson isn't even fast, that is the biggest advantage for being small.

 

[Caroline Says ll]

Who is pretending anything? Benson isn't even fast, that is the biggest advantage for being small.

I think it is pretending for many people to cite size as an issue, without any reference to how that person plays.

In the most recent posts in this thread there is already concerns over size affecting health and playoff performance - despite those being absolute nonsense.

Further to your point, speed is great and you are correct that Benson is not the greatest. But I would argue that the majority of those small forwards I listed before are notably fast. Can you identify what makes them effective? Or is speed the only element of note.

 

[Matt Ress]

Size has advantages- Length, power, easier to reach shooters to deflect, poke, or steal the puck. They can protect the puck better, harder to knock off the puck.

You're not wrong. It can be an advantage. Some guys also use it as a crutch in juniors and realize they aren't quick/smart/skilled enough to play as well in the NHL.

Everybody is different, therefore the bottom line is just how impactful someone is at the top level. What Benson is doing while still having a lot of room to improve his size, speed and shot is what's really intriguing.

 

[Doug Prishpreed]

I get really confused at the issue of size in the NHL for some posters. It really does not matter the size of someone in regards to injuries - just as it does not matter size for playoff performances. Look at any team that has deep cup runs or cup wins and you will see no correlation between production and height. No good player who is 5'10 suddenly becomes irrelevant in the playoffs because they are undersized.

It matters how you play.

​

There is data that says kids with smaller frames tend to have shorter NHL careers due to injury and wear-and-tear. It’s why the smaller kids still fall in the draft sometimes - so it’s not just posters who can think that way. I’m just not sure how pronounced the difference is or how easy it would be to buck that trend.

Many small forwards are totally fine and have long fruitful careers, so it probably shouldn’t be too much of a factor for most of them.

 

[Dingo44]

I think it is pretending for many people to cite size as an issue, without any reference to how that person plays.

In the most recent posts in this thread there is already concerns over size affecting health and playoff performance - despite those being absolute nonsense.

Further to your point, speed is great and you are correct that Benson is not the greatest. But I would argue that the majority of those small forwards I listed before are notably fast. Can you identify what makes them effective? Or is speed the only element of note.

Tall good, small bad, Hulk SMASH

 

[SabresFanNorthPortFL]

Marty St Louis 5’8” 180 lbs
1135 games, 1033 points

Theo Fleury 5’6” 182 lbs
1084 games, 1088 points

 

[Dubi Doo]

I get really confused at the issue of size in the NHL for some posters. It really does not matter the size of someone in regards to injuries - just as it does not matter size for playoff performances. Look at any team that has deep cup runs or cup wins and you will see no correlation between production and height. No good player who is 5'10 suddenly becomes irrelevant in the playoffs because they are undersized.

It matters how you play.

​

Yeah.

How soon posters forget about Danny Briere's playoff performances.

 

[Caroline Says ll]

There is data that says kids with smaller frames tend to have shorter NHL careers due to injury and wear-and-tear. It’s why the smaller kids still fall in the draft sometimes - so it’s not just posters who can think that way. I’m just not sure how pronounced the difference is or how easy it would be to buck that trend.

Many small forwards are totally fine and have long fruitful careers, so it probably shouldn’t be too much of a factor for most of them.

I think that is likely true as I feel there have been plenty of undersized forwards who have tried to overcome their size AND skill issues with trying to be overly physical.

The most successful small forwards in today's NHL use their size to create seperation. You rarely see them take hits or abuse.

 

[HOOats]

The thing lost in this convo is that our big guys don't play very big.

Tage, zero physicality.
Tuch, slightly above average.
People have always begged Greenway for more.
Rasmus, beast.
Cozens, above average.
Power, as non-physical as possible.
Samuselsson, average.

We're a tall team that plays a small, friendly game still. Hopefully Cozens and Co. can change that up moving forward.

 

[Doug Prishpreed]

The thing lost in this convo is that our big guys don't play very big.

Tage, zero physicality.
Tuch, slightly above average.
People have always begged Greenway for more.
Rasmus, beast.
Cozens, above average.
Power, as non-physical as possible.
Samuselsson, average.

We're a tall team that plays a small, friendly game still. Hopefully Cozens and Co. can change that up moving forward.

I agree but not sure how much of a problem that is? That's kind of how I described the Red Wings when they had Linstrom-era red wings and they seemed to make it work okay.

 

[Caroline Says ll]

I agree but not sure how much of a problem that is? That's kind of how I described the Red Wings when they had Linstrom-era red wings and they seemed to make it work okay.

Yeah I feel there needs to be a nuanced conversation of how much you want your star players to be physical.

Personally I think Tage doesn't shy away from the net or the corners, and he produces. He doesn't seek the big hit - but I do not think we need him to play like Landeskog or E. Kane and the risks that come with that style.

 

[Dingo44]

I agree but not sure how much of a problem that is? That's kind of how I described the Red Wings when they had Linstrom-era red wings and they seemed to make it work okay.

They did have Kronwall.

 

[Chainshot]

The thing lost in this convo is that our big guys don't play very big.

Tage, zero physicality.
Tuch, slightly above average.
People have always begged Greenway for more.
Rasmus, beast.
Cozens, above average.
Power, as non-physical as possible.
Samuselsson, average.

We're a tall team that plays a small, friendly game still. Hopefully Cozens and Co. can change that up moving forward.

Size and physical play are also not tied together. We also don't know how some of the average types will respond in the playoffs. We've seen players who aren't really known for it raise their level in the playoffs for other teams, it'll probably be something we discover when watching Buffalo (hopefully) in the playoffs in the spring.

 

[HOOats]

I agree but not sure how much of a problem that is? That's kind of how I described the Red Wings when they had Linstrom-era red wings and they seemed to make it work okay.

I agree it's not necessarily a fatal flaw, but it's not my ideal set-up either. I'd like to see it balanced by trades/signings as Adams fine tunes his build.

A team can't succeed as all small/finesse or all size/physicality, but I do believe the kinetic, collision-based nature of hockey means the foundation of a successful team should shade more physical. Smaller players are unlocked by their teams' structure and physical play imo. Marchessault was surrounded by physical beasts throughout the Vegas lineup. Florida is a monster team.

Size and physical play are also not tied together. We also don't know how some of the average types will respond in the playoffs. We've seen players who aren't really known for it raise their level in the playoffs for other teams, it'll probably be something we discover when watching Buffalo (hopefully) in the playoffs in the spring.

They're not fully correlated, but they are and should be to a degree. I'm not asking Tage to become more physical, do what you're good at. But big beats up on small on average, it's just how it is.

It's a problem if our big guys don't play physical but our small guys don't either. Like Krebs is fine as a pest, but he's a fly swatted away by the tail of truly physical NHL players.

I'm all for the pure talent cultivation rebuild that Adams pulled off, I just think it has to be balanced by experienced grit sooner or later, whether that's 5'10 190 or 6'4 220.

 

[Doug Prishpreed]

Size and physical play are also not tied together. We also don't know how some of the average types will respond in the playoffs. We've seen players who aren't really known for it raise their level in the playoffs for other teams, it'll probably be something we discover when watching Buffalo (hopefully) in the playoffs in the spring.

I'm convinced Girgs will be a point-per-game player in the playoffs

 

[Dingo44]

 

[tsujimoto74]

I'm convinced Girgs will be a point-per-game player in the playoffs

I have it in my head that Skinner will be an absolute gamer in the post-season (mostly because it would be hilarious to see him go off after all the years he’s played without seeing a single playoff game).

 

[Beerz]

I agree but not sure how much of a problem that is? That's kind of how I described the Red Wings when they had Linstrom-era red wings and they seemed to make it work okay.

Those Red Wing teams were vastly more physical than this Sabre team.

 

[Digable5]

Tell that to the Bills who have two small guys hurt right now in Milano and White. Size and smarts help you stay healthy in sports, so you really need to be smart at all times if you aren't big.

And just ignore the injuries to Daquan Jones and Gregory Rousseau? I guess Tommy Doyle and Spencer Brown owe all of their injuries troubles to them being so small too?

 

[Doug Prishpreed]

And just ignore the injuries to Daquan Jones and Gregory Rousseau? I guess Tommy Doyle and Spencer Brown owe all of their injuries troubles to them being so small too?

Guys who are too big get injured more than avg too. Not that size is what caused any of their specific injuries. But there definitely is an ideal size for each sport/position, and many opinions on how to interpret the data.

 

[Panthaz89]

The thing lost in this convo is that our big guys don't play very big.

Tage, zero physicality.
Tuch, slightly above average.
People have always begged Greenway for more.
Rasmus, beast.
Cozens, above average.
Power, as non-physical as possible.
Samuselsson, average.

We're a tall team that plays a small, friendly game still. Hopefully Cozens and Co. can change that up moving forward.

What Tuch plays very high-power forward game and bullies people on the forecheck especially.

 

[HOOats]

What Tuch plays very high-power forward game and bullies people on the forecheck especially.

He's my favorite Sabre to watch. Not exactly sure what you were trying to say, but I wouldn't call him a very high physicality power forward. He is strong with good reach, he uses his body well to win pucks and carve out position in front and in the corners, but he's just as happy to stay out of contact and use his elite stick and anticipation to win pucks. He's a speed-based power forward who likes to settle into space to get his excellent shot off. He's a mild-mannered modern power forward, he isn't intimidating many with his physical play and truculence.

 

[BUCKSHOT]

'The passion he has is contagious' | Benson's path to the NHL fueled by love for the game | Buffalo Sabres

The 18-year-old secured a spot on the Sabres' opening night lineup through hard work and patience.

www.nhl.com

 

[Dingo44]

'The passion he has is contagious' | Benson's path to the NHL fueled by love for the game | Buffalo Sabres

The 18-year-old secured a spot on the Sabres' opening night lineup through hard work and patience.

www.nhl.com

This is a great article. Thanks for posting.

I had to laugh at this:

Even in Patrick’s most serious moments, like when he was discussing a bad game with his team, he couldn’t help but smile at Benson, who couldn’t shake the grin from his face. While trying to remain stern, Patrick would have to look away from Benson to regain his composure and get his point across to his team.

“I’d see Zach on the ice and I’d say, ‘Do you’ve got to be looking at me like that when I’m in a serious moment with the team? Can’t you just wipe that smile off your face?’ And he’d go, ‘Well, you know, I’m just excited about being here today.’ That’s how it was coaching Zach,” Patrick said. “He made it a joy. When you’d walk in the dressing room, he was in a fantastic mood every day. I loved that.”

 

[Weltschmerz]

This is a great article. Thanks for posting.

I had to laugh at this:

Or the other kids shooting ping pong balls at him when he was doing zoom interviews