Value of: Yzerplan put 18.1 million to Holl, Gostisbehere, Reimer, Compher, Sprong and Kostin

[Reality Check]

This just in:

Steve Yzerman knows more than HFBoard posters

 

[RedWingzz]

JT Compher is an absolute stud, and the 2C we've been missing for years.

Ghost has been a stud too, and been a nice PP QB.

Kostin plays his role well on the 4th line, and throws his weight around more than anyone on the team.

Sprong is doing exactly what he was brought in to do, add scoring depth. He's like a secret weapon on the 4th line, but also gets PP minutes and contributes there.

Lyon has been unreal albeit the small sample size. Reimer has been inconsistent, but has still played well

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

Detroit sits as the 10th best team in the league right now when looking at points percentage and standings points.

There were about 3 games they lost (2 in OT, 1 in regulation) that they should have won but shit happened. 4 more points and they're in 5th place. This while playing in easily the toughest division in the league.

 

[LPHabsFan]

When a team loads up on free agent signings, it can generally only be viewed as a negative for three reasons that I can see.

1 - They end up taking spots from younger players. Wings fans would have a better idea for this but Yzerman developed in an organization where they liked their prospects to spend a ton of time, maybe more than necessary, improving in the AHL so it's possible he has that same philosophy. Having said that, my limited info would suggest this isn't a problem.

2 - It stops the team from signing/acquiring players. They have cap space now. A lot of the guys they signed have contracts that will expire in 1 or 2 years with a couple expiring this year. The only contracts that could become a problem in a few years, in my opinion, depending on how things are managed, are Copp and Compher. Copp isn't having a great year now statistically while Compher is. Regardless, that's a lot of money for a few more years for guys that aren't, and won't be, key players on a good team Again though, this is a toss up. It could become problematic.

3 - It stops them from sucking and therefore doesn't help the rebuild because they're investing in players that won't be there for the longhaul. This for me is the only area that has legitimacy to questioning the plan of all those free agent signings. They then end up picking higher than they want to pick, especially after missing out on top picks when they did suck a lot worse. Having said that, sucking less also help prospect development by surrounding their young players with a bit less of a losing culture that has more compete so they can improve. It's an argument that goes both ways though.

 

[Nemesis Prime]

I didn't like the deals at the time,glad to be proven wrong (so far)

 

[Hobnobs]

When a team loads up on free agent signings, it can generally only be viewed as a negative for three reasons that I can see.

1 - They end up taking spots from younger players. Wings fans would have a better idea for this but Yzerman developed in an organization where they liked their prospects to spend a ton of time, maybe more than necessary, improving in the AHL so it's possible he has that same philosophy. Having said that, my limited info would suggest this isn't a problem.

2 - It stops the team from signing/acquiring players. They have cap space now. A lot of the guys they signed have contracts that will expire in 1 or 2 years with a couple expiring this year. The only contracts that could become a problem in a few years, in my opinion, depending on how things are managed, are Copp and Compher. Copp isn't having a great year now statistically while Compher is. Regardless, that's a lot of money for a few more years for guys that aren't, and won't be, key players on a good team Again though, this is a toss up. It could become problematic.

3 - It stops them from sucking and therefore doesn't help the rebuild because they're investing in players that won't be there for the longhaul. This for me is the only area that has legitimacy to questioning the plan of all those free agent signings. They then end up picking higher than they want to pick, especially after missing out on top picks when they did suck a lot worse. Having said that, sucking less also help prospect development by surrounding their young players with a bit less of a losing culture that has more compete so they can improve. It's an argument that goes both ways though.

The whole "prospects spending time in minors longer than any other teams prospects" thing is a myth. And I don't really know where it's coming from. I think it started in the late 90s but it doesnt make sense. No prospect who was NHL ready was forced to the minors to develop longer than necessary.

 

[Hodge]

Wings still have a ton of flexibility to level up going forward too. Lots of cap space, plenty of players they can move to create even more space if necessary (Larkin only guy with full NTC) plus their own top 3 round picks for the next 3 seasons and other valuable trade chips like Danielson, ASP, Kasper, etc. Detroit is in position to add essentially any good player who becomes available on the trade market.

 

[Detroit Knights]

C'mon, you must realize regular season head-to-head W/L record is meaningless come playoff time. Especially when we're talking about games played before December.

yes regular season records are meaningless in the playoffs like when boston puts up the most recorded points ever and lose in the first round. Your absolutely right.

At the same time, the people calling detroit trash are the same ones that make the same arguments when it fits their narrative.

Then again, most teams that don't make the playoffs and are bubble teams are the ones that look back to the october and november games and realize they let a couple games by that they should have won, too. So you can say these early games are meaningless and for boston this year and last, that would be correct, but for the other teams that are battling for the other spots, they become increasingly important

 

[Detroit Knights]

Detroit sits as the 10th best team in the league right now when looking at points percentage and standings points.

There were about 3 games they lost (2 in OT, 1 in regulation) that they should have won but shit happened. 4 more points and they're in 5th place. This while playing in easily the toughest division in the league.

are we talking about flying sticks that have a mind of their own and just leap out of the hands of players at the exact correct moment to do so?

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

are we talking about flying sticks that have a mind of their own and just leap out of the hands of players at the exact correct moment to do so?

That's part of it. But also refs calling Detroit for other bullshit in the same game, like how Detroit had 2 or 3 penalties in a very short span during the final 5 minutes against Seattle (all weak AF) when Detroit was up 4-3.

The only games that I thought Detroit had no business being in this season were the 1st game against Boston, the game against Winnipeg, and the game against NYR. All the other games they at least put up a fight. Overall I'm very happy with this team now but still think they have a lot of room to grow.

 

[archangel2]

stupid thread and lets break it down

Holl 3.4 for 2 seasons after this one--he is a defensive D man. Rebuild teams need player like this​

Gostisbehere signed a one year deal​

Reimer One year deal​

Compher, He has 17pts so far--contract maybe 2 years to long​

Sprong One year deal​

kostin 2 mill only signed for 1 more year​

There is a thing called the cap floor.. you might have heard of it.

 

[FriendlyGhost92]

stupid thread and lets break it down

Holl 3.4 for 2 seasons after this one--he is a defensive D man. Rebuild teams need player like this​

Gostisbehere signed a one year deal​

Reimer One year deal​

Compher, He has 17pts so far--contract maybe 2 years to long​

Sprong One year deal​

kostin 2 mill only signed for 1 more year​

There is a thing called the cap floor.. you might have heard of it.

Ehh, Detroit didn't really need to make these deals to reach the cap floor.

... What a lot of critics really lost sight of is that none of the contracts affect Detroit long term and the "longer" ones coincidentally end as the players' counterpart prospect should be coming off an ELC. (Chiarot/Edvinsson, Copp/Kasper, Compher/Danielson) It's almost as if they were structured that way on purpose.

Also, the short ones (Ghost/Sprong/Reimer) all have value as TDL flips if Detroit elects to move guys. (Maybe not Reimer beyond a mid to late round pick)

Yzerman's made it pretty clear that he doesn't want his core group to settle into a loser's mindset. Icing a competitive roster prevents that.

 

[norrisnick]

The whole "prospects spending time in minors longer than any other teams prospects" thing is a myth. And I don't really know where it's coming from. I think it started in the late 90s but it doesnt make sense. No prospect who was NHL ready was forced to the minors to develop longer than necessary.

Other things that are myths: Hudler, Nyquist, Tatar, Berggren and Edvinsson...

 

[Hobnobs]

Other things that are myths: Hudler, Nyquist, Tatar, Berggren and Edvinsson...

So first of all. Yzerman wasn't there when Tatar and Nyquist was there.

Second of all. Hudler spending 3 whole years in GR and not looking good when called up is keeping prospects in the A too long now? Same with Nyquist really. Spent parts of 3 seasons in the A and became a regular once he produced on a regular basis. You had two examples, one wasn't ready to play in the NHL until his 4th year and the other two wasn't from when Yzerman played and got "inspired to do the same".

Third. Berggren and Edvinsson are the subjects of the argument that Yzerman keeps prospects in the A for too long because Wings did it when he played. Which they didn't.

Anything else?

 

[FriendlyGhost92]

So first of all. Yzerman wasn't there when Tatar and Nyquist was there.

Second of all. Hudler spending 3 whole years in GR and not looking good when called up is keeping prospects in the A too long now? Same with Nyquist really. Spent parts of 3 seasons in the A and became a regular once he produced on a regular basis. You had two examples, one wasn't ready to play in the NHL until his 4th year and the other two wasn't from when Yzerman played and got "inspired to do the same".

Third. Berggren and Edvinsson are the subjects of the argument that Yzerman keeps prospects in the A for too long because Wings did it when he played. Which they didn't.

Anything else?

You're not wrong that Yzerman wasn't in charge when those guys were around.

But they absolutely overcooked prospects back in the day, and Nyquist is the prime example. To the point that I recall in the 14-15 season they were highlighting that over something like a 70 or 80 game stretch (Going back into the 13-14 season) Nyquist was pretty much on par with Ovechkin and Stamkos in goal scoring, at the top of the list.

And they're doing it with Edvinsson now. He may have stuff to improve on, and it may be better for his development to work on it in the AHL, but he's absolutely better than a couple of Detroit's current defenders.

 

[Hobnobs]

You're not wrong that Yzerman wasn't in charge when those guys were around.

But they absolutely overcooked prospects back in the day, and Nyquist is the prime example. To the point that I recall in the 14-15 season they were highlighting that over something like a 70 or 80 game stretch (Going back into the 13-14 season) Nyquist was pretty much on par with Ovechkin and Stamkos in goal scoring, at the top of the list.

And they're doing it with Edvinsson now. He may have stuff to improve on, and it may be better for his development to work on it in the AHL, but he's absolutely better than a couple of Detroit's current defenders.

When people say back in the day in this case they mean Yzerman playing days since that would've been what he takes inspiration from. Nyquist is irrelevant to that argument.

As for Nyquist being overcooked. I guess slightly but only because he started in the AHL in 13-14. He wasn't really on fire before that. But that was Babs/Holland regime and has nothing to do with the arguments at hand.

And they're doing it with Edvinsson now. He may have stuff to improve on, and it may be better for his development to work on it in the AHL, but he's absolutely better than a couple of Detroit's current defenders.

I'm not a prospect development specialist or anything but my guess is, and bare with me on this, that management prefers that Edvinsson plays ~20+ mins a game atm instead of third pairing mins on the wings and will call him up when injuries hit.

 

[FriendlyGhost92]

When people say back in the day in this case they mean Yzerman playing days since that would've been what he takes inspiration from. Nyquist is irrelevant to that argument.

As for Nyquist being overcooked. I guess slightly but only because he started in the AHL in 13-14. He wasn't really on fire before that. But that was Babs/Holland regime and has nothing to do with the arguments at hand.



I'm not a prospect development specialist or anything but my guess is, and bare with me on this, that management prefers that Edvinsson plays ~20+ mins a game atm instead of third pairing mins on the wings and will call him up when injuries hit.

Yzerman came up under Holland in management and you don't think the way Holland deal with prospects might bear some sort of relevancy to the way Yzerman deals with them? Lolwut?

 

[Henkka]

And when you build up, this the day, when others will follow and join.

Welcome to Detroit Patrick Kane.

 

[Hobnobs]

Yzerman came up under Holland in management and you don't think the way Holland deal with prospects might bear some sort of relevancy to the way Yzerman deals with them? Lolwut?

Again, which prospects during the Holland era that coincided with Yzerman playing there was held back? Lapointe? Pushor? Ward? Dandenault? Who?

You couldn't even reply to my original post to you because you have nothing to say. LOLWUT1337LULZXD

 

[Ianturnedbull]

I don’t know why the OP or fans stick their neck out this far. This thread was created on pure cynicism and not logic.

Personally I never like to be the person who claims to know how teams will fair each season.

For example I thought the leafs would be better this season, but deep down everything had to click. I never imagined it would be an extended pre-season (testing lines, tough guys, reclamation projects, goalies, etc.).

Another example is when certain hf members declare that "This is the year Boston will decline".

Eventually lower tier teams come around, and good organizations continue to put out competitive teams.

As for Detroit Chiarot, Gostisbehere, and Holl are all fine. They are not great, but it seems like they've put these players in the right position to succeed.

Holl was fine as a leaf. He just couldn't do well when asked to play more minutes, etc. As a bottom 6 D he can play on any team and be fine.

 

[SimonEdvinssonAtSix]

I don’t know why the OP or fans stick their neck out this far. This thread was created on pure cynicism and not logic.

Personally I never like to be the person who claims to know how teams will fair each season.

For example I thought the leafs would be better this season, but deep down everything had to click. I never imagined it would be an extended pre-season (testing lines, tough guys, reclamation projects, goalies, etc.).

Another example is when certain hf members declare that "This is the year Boston will decline".

Eventually lower tier teams come around, and good organizations continue to put out competitive teams.

As for Detroit Chiarot, Gostisbehere, and Holl are all fine. They are not great, but it seems like they've put these players in the right position to succeed.

Holl was fine as a leaf. He just couldn't do well when asked to play more minutes, etc. As a bottom 6 D he can play on any team and be fine.

Social media has created a culture of instant gratification. They stick their necks out that far for the dopamine hit. The rush wears off quick and it's on to the next fix without thought. The actual content produced is of little concern as long as they can get a fix.

 

[Ezekial]

I don’t know why the OP or fans stick their neck out this far. This thread was created on pure cynicism and not logic.

Because on the internet people turn into their worst selves with no accountability.

 

[Frank Drebin]

Like I said agree to disagree. A bad contract is a bad contract.

If it doesn't hurt your team it's not a bad contract. Not every contract needs to fit in a good or bad box

 

[Detroit Knights]

Yzerman came up under Holland in management and you don't think the way Holland deal with prospects might bear some sort of relevancy to the way Yzerman deals with them? Lolwut?

how would you explain raymond and seider then...

are you saying that berggren = raymond?

 

[FriendlyGhost92]

how would you explain raymond and seider then...

are you saying that berggren = raymond?

Which prospect in the last decade of the Holland era was as good as Raymond or Seider?

How the hell did you somehow muddle this into me saying "Berggren = Raymond"?