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Your Rebuild Opinion? Next Move Coming?

SirloinUB said:
29 year old Neal Pionk gets a new 6 x $7M contract to stay in Winnipeg. He’s been their number 2 Dman.

If I can get Provorov or Gavrikov for that number I could live with it. In reality, several teams/GMs will be thinking similar. I’d bet the floor of this summers bidding war is 7.5M with GMs offering more than 8.

Are you guys willing to make them our 1st or 2nd highest paid dman? How does that fit with getting Edvinsson a long term contract? Can we have 3 dmen making more than 8+ long term?
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Yes you can. The cap is going to continue going up. Sooner or later we gotta stop thinking that 8 mill is a crazy amount. It’s gonna be the new 5 mill very soon
 
SirloinUB said:
He's a left shot and i see a lot of people throwing his name out there as a a target
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Yeah, he's a left handed shot, but he plays on the right side. Some guys like playing on the off side so my questions is whether that's the case with him? If so, I question how much of a fit he'd be in Detroit?
 
SirloinUB said:
I aint paying provorov the same as Seider +/- a few hundred thousand. Good luck with that.
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You shouldn't compare contracts that include 50% RFA years with contracts that are 100% UFA years.

RFA exists to drive the price of contracts down.
 
Frk It said:
You shouldn't compare contracts that include 50% RFA years with contracts that are 100% UFA years.

RFA exists to drive the price of contracts down.
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I get they're not apples to apples but you have to be mindful of how you allocate long term resources.
 
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SirloinUB said:
I get they're not apples to apples but you have to be mindful of how you allocate long term resources.
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Your overall question was still a fair one.

It does kind of depend on the price of landing Provorov/Gavrikov as to whether or not it is a good idea or not.

Could be like DeBrincat/Raymond where if you can get them just under the price of Seider but as a pure UFA, you do it.

I think a lot of it depends on if ASP is on the opening roster and how they construct the pairs if they “strike out” on free agents again.

What I would hate is you strike out on Provorov/Gavrikov and ASP plays a full season in GR and we have to watch chiarot on the top pairing most of next year. Then we are just spinning our tires at that point.
 
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jkutswings said:
Can't expectations change? That's the question I never see addressed with all the, "but the cupboard was so empty when Yzerman took over" talk.

Yes, Holland left him with a pile of crap.
Yes, he's done an amazing job with his first rounders.
Yes, it's supposed to take several years to rebuild.

But he HAS been here several years. And drafted well. And gotten the roster very close to making the playoffs.

So why can't the bar go higher, and now expect to reach the next logical milestone?

For a detailed answer to your question, I originally expected the roster to be terrible the first 3-4 years, then to be a bubble team for a couple years, then to be a playoff team for a couple years, then to start going on deep playoff runs (so around 8 years for the entire rebuild). But again, if they're a year or two ahead of schedule, I don't consider that season house money with no expectations. The bar goes up and I expect them to keep advancing.
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While it's annoying as fans that we've sucked for so long, literally 99% of my buddies are Leaf fans so when they are giving me the gears at least i can say I've watched my team lift 4 cups how many have you seen the Leafs lift? Shuts them up pretty quick and makes me feel better lol. Yzerman said since day 1 building through the draft, most impact players for the Wings is at least aren't on the team for a min, 1-3 years. Raymond, Seider,Edvinsson,Kasper, Aljo and Soderblom are all now fixtures on the team. ASP, Mazur, Danielson and Cossa are close then there still Buch in the K. Then we have Larkin Cat and Kane ( hope he comes back for at least 1 more year) Once we have ASP and Cossa up its safe to say we've been built through the draft other than a few holes for FA signings.
 
I’d much rather have gavrikov than provorov. Gavrikov is more proven and imo definitely the better defender. Plus he’s bigger. I also think gavrikov eould be easier to ship out down the line if need be. I’d give gavrikov 9 x 5 and not lose any sleep over it. I’d much rather pay more than give out a lot of term to ANYONE in this years FA.
 
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Coach Reggie Dunlop said:
I’d much rather have gavrikov than provorov. Gavrikov is more proven and imo definitely the better defender. Plus he’s bigger. I also think gavrikov eould be easier to ship out down the line if need be. I’d give gavrikov 9 x 5 and not lose any sleep over it. I’d much rather pay more than give out a lot of term to ANYONE in this years FA.
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I prefer gavrikov as well
 
wingerdinger said:
Dont see how marner fits into the team.

Raymond Kane and Mitch are too similar. And with Buch and Lombardi on the way we have the playmaker winger covered.

I like Bennett not to play center but to play the puck retrieval/net front role for the Larkin Raymond line. We have a massive hole on our top line. Bennett would be a great complimentary piece. I'd pay him 8 mill.

I wonder if Compher or Copp could play that role instead?

The only other move Id make is signing Orlov to round out the top 4.

Then you have to trust the kids can provide the depth.


Bennett-Larkin-Raymond
DCat-Kasper-Kane
Danielson-Copp-Tarasenko
Rasmussen-Compher-Mazur

or

Compher-Larkin-Raymond
DCat-Kasper-Kane
Danielson-Copp-Tarasenko
Mazur-Rasmussen-Berggren

Orlov-Seider
Edvinsson-ASP
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Orlov/Bennett over Marner? Idk... That team also is still not good. Seems like rinse repeat of what Yzerman's been doing in UFA getting average players vs paying up for the best available to raise the talent level.
Frk It said:
Your overall question was still a fair one.

It does kind of depend on the price of landing Provorov/Gavrikov as to whether or not it is a good idea or not.

Could be like DeBrincat/Raymond where if you can get them just under the price of Seider but as a pure UFA, you do it.

I think a lot of it depends on if ASP is on the opening roster and how they construct the pairs if they “strike out” on free agents again.

What I would hate is you strike out on Provorov/Gavrikov and ASP plays a full season in GR and we have to watch chiarot on the top pairing most of next year. Then we are just spinning our tires at that point.
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Most important player of the offseason/rebuild right now!

If he's got a 'Hutson' like effect next year on our team a high price LHD isn't totally needed if you can pair ASP with either Edvinsson/Albertson. Nothing suggests it yet, but I think Edvinsson/ASP will be extremely good pair, hopefully Albertson continues to trend "up" and can handle the left side with Seider, leaving the veteran scraps on defense to figure out 12-15 minutes a night. (Chiarot/Gustaffson/Holl/Toumisto/Wallinder/Buium/*Possible UFA*).
 
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Gavrikov is completely over-hyped(still a good player). He'd be Ben Chariot 2.0 here.(Over paid and too high of expectations)

9 million was one of the most ridiculous things I've seen someone say. Red Wings don't have to over-pay anyone in UFA. No one is a game breaker outside of Marner.
 
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This team needs more talent and more talented depth..

No chance that comes 100% from DRW draftees..

We 100% do need outside players via FA and trades...

Bad signings dosent mean no more signings, it only means better work needed by the GM.

Our D needs an upgrade...that needs to be by bringing in a top 3 dman and bringing up a prospect abd dumping dead weight
 
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I've been avoiding commenting here, because I didn't want to bring people down. I've been pro-tank for a while and it's been painful to watch, as we've climbed from a possible 7th spot, to 12th.

And there were plenty of people here saying what I would have said: Just lose these last few games, sit Larkin and Seider, blah blah blah.

So now that the unpleasantness of the death throes of the season are over, back to the original prompt of this post --

Next move for the rebuild:

In my opinion, and I'm not trying to be cruel -- the most important thing we could do is get some of these guys to sports psychologists.

When the games counted the most, we folded as a team, and some of these guys completely collapsed. I don't think it's a character issue with any of them -- I don't think there's anyone here (save maybe Kane) who cares too much about themselves and their stats, and not enough about the team, and winning. And Kane remained effective when the heat was on. Then when games didn't matter, the team played loose and won.

It's not that they don't care, it's that they care too much, and they're not able to take that pressure and use it constructively. I won't call them out by name, but there are 4 or 5 crucially important guys on this team that need to learn how to harness that pressure and rise to big occasions. Maybe a sports psychologist can help.
 
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Kane has been the closest player to replace Datsyuk's ability to slow the game and control the puck, especially on the power play. Right now, I do not see anyone in the system capable of replacing that need.
 
Snuggs said:
Gavrikov is completely over-hyped(still a good player). He'd be Ben Chariot 2.0 here.(Over paid and too high of expectations)

9 million was one of the most ridiculous things I've seen someone say. Red Wings don't have to over-pay anyone in UFA. No one is a game breaker outside of Marner.
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Everyone is is overpaid in free agency. It is how it works. If your primary goal in life is not to overpay for players, don't sign UFAs
 
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