Your Rebuild Opinion? Next Move Coming?

[Coach Reggie Dunlop]

If they try to add significant pieces in FA and are looking to not tank then they need to really think about offer sheets for some guys. Cuylle, knies and that defenseman from Winnipeg are all guys they should look at.

 

[Run the Jewels]

If they try to add significant pieces in FA and are looking to not tank then they need to really think about offer sheets for some guys. Cuylle, knies and that defenseman from Winnipeg are all guys they should look at.

Dylan Samberg? His relative Fenwick is in the top 20 for LHD. He also PKs which would come in handy. He also hits a decent amount. He's third amongst LHD for defensive zone starts. A lot to like there.

 

[dj4aces]

Lots of speculation in recent weeks.. it would be interesting to hear from fans from this type of forum, what their expectations truly were in June of 2019, when the Draft Rebuild was announced??

I'm getting to this late, but I'm going to be completely honest here, and I'm not sure how many folks are going to agree, but here goes...

I honestly didn't think we'd be as close as we have been these past couple season to playoffs by this point in the rebuild.

When Stevie arrived, we had nothing of any significance in the system. The cupboards were pretty bare. Our highest draft selection prior to him taking over was Filip freakin' Zadina. We traded away draft picks and prospects in an effort to keep the playoff streak alive. While 25 straight seasons of playoffs is an amazing achievement, 21 oe 22 straight would've been just fine, and we should've started a soft rebuild. Instead, we rode the hell out of that streak til the wheels fell off, and those wheels are still in a ditch somewhere.

Since that introductory presser, we've stocked up nicely when it comes to prospects. Our only real problem area is free agency. Is it pro scouting's fault? Is it Stevie buying whatever junk someone dumped in the alley behind Goodwill because even they wouldn't take it? That's for the reader to decide. No matter what though, this is an area Stevie needs to work on.

All in all, missing the playoffs again isn't the end of the world. Is it frustrating? Yes, absolutely. Should the team have figured out a way to deal with March Sadness vibes by now? Absolutely! But the only things I can really blame on Stevie are questionable FA signings and how long we kept Lalonde this season before sending him his pink slip.

Here's hoping our free agency this year goes well. At this point though, I'm very much looking forward to the prospect tournament and training camp.

 

[ElProfessor]

So Danielson>Kasper>Larkin? Just straight up delusion at this point, the disrespect to Larkin because he's had a mostly rough year is insane. Danielson is most definetely not better than Kasper, who's only 5 months older btw. Larkin was A 60+ center at 21, which is the earliest Danielson could make the NHL.

Meh. Kasper's undisputably better as a rookie than Larkin was. I'm very excited to see where he goes.

And I've always felt Danielson was a better prospect than Kasper (as 95% of posters here agreed before Lalonde was fired).

Idk why you take me liking two of our kids as some sort of hatred of Larkin. But to each his own

 

[ElProfessor]

What a bizarre evaluation. On one hand you acknowledge they were rebuilding through the draft and on the other you grumble about “8 years” as if the goal was to make playoffs for all 8 years.

What were your expectations for this team 3 8 years ago?

when seider and Raymond were rookies and sophomores, ASP/Kasper/Danielson were undrafted, Ed was in his D + 1/2 seasons, al jo was a developing 2nd rounder, Zadina Berggren and Rasmussen were the senior prospect’s of note, no Debrincat and guys like Mantha/Bert were the best assets to work with behind Larkin, what were your expectations?

The goal was to be bad for 5ish years drafting inside the top 10 and develop those pieces slowly improving.

Also, what are you talking about the drafting has been bad? No it hasn’t. The drafting has been very good.

They’ve drafted developed:
- point/game two way 1st line winger
- 50 point 1st pair D
- a 2/3 Dman than can carry a 2nd pair
- a good top 6 winger/ possible 2nd line center
- a mobile two way 4/5 dman.
- an additional highly regard prospect poop with what, 9ish guys that have a shot to be useful nhl player on the way

Well.

Gavrikov (preferably) or Provorov they HAVE to sign this summer. Neither is perfect. But we need a top-4 LHD so badly. And next yr's FA class isn't any better for LHD's. You have to get SOMEONE. And unless you've got a bargain on the trade market lined up, it's time. It's ironic bc I'm not sure Provorov is a ton better than Walman...or that Gavrikov is a ton better than Maatta. But here we are. It shouldn't be TOO painful to be the top bidder for either. And if we draft a stud LHD who eventually plays next to Seider........their contracts shouldn't be franchise killers on the 3rd pair.

Gavrikov/Provorov -- Seider
Edvinsson -- Johansson (...ASP mid yr)
Chiarot -- Some AHL'er (...Johansson mid yr)

Just that one addition ^ gives you a pretty solid top-4, and is probably enough to get you into the playoffs.

Then up front Danielson and Mazur will be likely additions. If you're able to sign Marner/Tavares/Duchene/Marchand that's 3 new good forwards.

??? -- Larkin -- Raymond
DeBrincat -- Kasper -- Kane
Soder -- Danielson -- Mazur
rAss -- Copp -- Compher/Trashasenko

Unless Mrazek/Talbot both suck and Cossa has a rough start replacing them.... should be a playoff team worth watching in the 1st Rd

 

[Coach Reggie Dunlop]

Dylan Samberg? His relative Fenwick is in the top 20 for LHD. He also PKs which would come in handy. He also hits a decent amount. He's third amongst LHD for defensive zone starts. A lot to like there.

Yeah that guy, he’s definitely worthy of a potential offer sheet.

 

[wingsfannnn9191]

Yeah that guy, he’s definitely worthy of a potential offer sheet.

Problem is jets can’t get any free agents to want to live in Winnipeg so they’d probably match unless it was a ridiculous offer like 6+

 

[deca guard]

many fans are concerned about getting into playoffs , my priority is building a dynasty ! and like ive previously said a big part of that is saving cap to pay my own draftee's good coin to create mutual loyalty . i want to have the cap space to sign eddie-kasper-dannyson-asp etc big coin first contract just like we did with sidez n rayz ! and to be able to do so i cant pay big long term coin to anybody in this current ufa batch ! ide over pay the 27 year old cop jeannot to get a soldier on the ship is a priority , hes my top ufa ! does an important job + young / long term + low cap hit . my other fave would be tavares = short term cuz of age + high level star as a teacher like kane + enhances scoring / pp big time + retires when i need more cap space for big contracts to asp-cossa-dannyson . hopefully leaf sign marner n JT walks ! then theres proven but old orlov whom possibly could be signed for only 2/3 years , put him on 2 with aljo . eddie on 1 with side'z . orlov teaching aljo then his cap hits gone when we need it

- JEANNOT
- TAVARES
- ORLOV

with all kinds of prospects coming up over the next several years to learn from tavares n orlov , with jeannot around to rat hunt

also , im all for re signing kane . couldnt find a better teacher than philosopher kane !

kane - tavares - orlov around raising the propspects is excellent

and i want eddie to watch sidez back plus take work load off him , sidez n eddie together NOW

*OK STEVE YOU CAN GO ON VACATION NOW IVE THE STRATEGY ALL FIGURED OUT

 

[SirloinUB]

Well.

Gavrikov (preferably) or Provorov they HAVE to sign this summer. Neither is perfect. But we need a top-4 LHD so badly. And next yr's FA class isn't any better for LHD's. You have to get SOMEONE. And unless you've got a bargain on the trade market lined up, it's time. It's ironic bc I'm not sure Provorov is a ton better than Walman...or that Gavrikov is a ton better than Maatta. But here we are. It shouldn't be TOO painful to be the top bidder for either. And if we draft a stud LHD who eventually plays next to Seider........their contracts shouldn't be franchise killers on the 3rd pair.

Gavrikov/Provorov -- Seider
Edvinsson -- Johansson (...ASP mid yr)
Chiarot -- Some AHL'er (...Johansson mid yr)

Just that one addition ^ gives you a pretty solid top-4, and is probably enough to get you into the playoffs.

Then up front Danielson and Mazur will be likely additions. If you're able to sign Marner/Tavares/Duchene/Marchand that's 3 new good forwards.

??? -- Larkin -- Raymond
DeBrincat -- Kasper -- Kane
Soder -- Danielson -- Mazur
rAss -- Copp -- Compher/Trashasenko

Unless Mrazek/Talbot both suck and Cossa has a rough start replacing them.... should be a playoff team worth watching in the 1st Rd

Maybe they have no interest in Detroit. Maybe another team gets a little silly in ufa and these guys are getting 7 or 8 milllion dollars (almost every team has an abundance of cap space for the first time).

I’d rather another year of mid level acquisitions than overpaying for those guys.

For the record, I do like them and would love to add one, but they’re the kind of guys you probably regret signing for 7.5+ million aav after they’ve put up 28 points.

I’ve said it before but this off season is reminding me of (I believe it was 2016) when lucic Neal Nielsen, Okposo and a few others all got fat contracts that each team regretted.

This off season is poised to see some ugly contracts given out.


My hot take prediction is that the chairot contract looking pretty damn good on July 2nd

 

[Frk It]

Maybe they have no interest in Detroit. Maybe another team gets a little silly in ufa and these guys are getting 7 or 8 milllion dollars (almost every team has an abundance of cap space for the first time).

I’d rather another year of mid level acquisitions than overpaying for those guys.

So another year of not actually upgrading the roster?

I found it pretty funny last year that people celebrated not giving out bad contracts, as opposed to being concerned we didn’t upgrade the roster.

Unfortunately these two things are somewhat tied together. And I mean, look how that played out for us this year…

Meanwhile teams like Washington gave out those “bad contracts” and then smoked us in the standings.

 

[Winger98]

So another year of not actually upgrading the roster?

I found it pretty funny last year that people celebrated not giving out bad contracts, as opposed to being concerned we didn’t upgrade the roster.

Unfortunately these two things are somewhat tied together. And I mean, look how that played out for us this year…

Teams lien Washington gave out those “bad contracts” and then smoked us in the standings.

Teams like washington missed the playoffs once in 10 years, and are still rolling Ovi, Carlson, and Wilson out there. I don't think they are a fair comparison for how we are doing, or what moves are necessarily available to us.

Depending how you view our kids, yeah, this summer might not see much of an upgrade.

 

[Frk It]

Teams like washington missed the playoffs once in 10 years, and are still rolling Ovi, Carlson, and Wilson out there. I don't think they are a fair comparison for how we are doing, or what moves are necessarily available to us.

Depending how you view our kids, yeah, this summer might not see much of an upgrade.

A lot of people predicted a fall-off for Washington and thought we could leapfrog them, if you go back and look at posts prior to this last season.

But either way, an upgrade to the top 4 is a must and we once again have a few different options to make that happen.

I’m fine with going young up front, but at some point I think Yzerman needs to be held accountable for not upgrading the top 4 on defense if we don’t make any kind of clear cut upgrade.

I don’t think it’s acceptable to have 2 seasons in a row where you barely miss the playoffs and you follow that up with barely improving your roster. I think we need to see more urgency.

 

[stillwater]

Maybe they have no interest in Detroit. Maybe another team gets a little silly in ufa and these guys are getting 7 or 8 milllion dollars (almost every team has an abundance of cap space for the first time).

I’d rather another year of mid level acquisitions than overpaying for those guys.

For the record, I do like them and would love to add one, but they’re the kind of guys you probably regret signing for 7.5+ million aav after they’ve put up 28 points.

I’ve said it before but this off season is reminding me of (I believe it was 2016) when lucic Neal Nielsen, Okposo and a few others all got fat contracts that each team regretted.

This off season is poised to see some ugly contracts given out.


My hot take prediction is that the chairot contract looking pretty damn good on July 2nd

Yet you want them to sign Marner at all costs? Maybe he has no interest in Detroit. Maybe another team gets silly in the Marner sweepstakes.

 

[RedHawkDown]

Knies could be the guy out in Toronto if they decide to re-sign Marner.

If they re-sign Marner for 13.5M and Tavares for 9, that gives them 4.5M to fill 6 roster spots. Knies could be a good offer sheet option at around 6.5M, or just try to trade for his rights beforehand.

It all depends on what happens in the playoffs. Another disappointment, there will be a shakeup and Marner is gone. They make a deep run? I can see Marner re-signing.

 

[JediOrderPizza]

Knies could be the guy out in Toronto if they decide to re-sign Marner.

If they re-sign Marner for 13.5M and Tavares for 9, that gives them 4.5M to fill 6 roster spots. Knies could be a good offer sheet option at around 6.5M, or just try to trade for his rights beforehand.

It all depends on what happens in the playoffs. Another disappointment, there will be a shakeup and Marner is gone. They make a deep run? I can see Marner re-signing.

I think it is Tavares that would be out. You don't jettison a power forward like Knies for the older Tavares.

But I agree with you on that this playoff run for them is the make or break for the Marner situation.

 

[JediOrderPizza]

Tank looking happy, I get a feeling he will be back.


Lyon still looking like a serial killer.

 

[Winger98]

A lot of people predicted a fall-off for Washington and thought we could leapfrog them, if you go back and look at posts prior to this last season.

But either way, an upgrade to the top 4 is a must and we once again have a few different options to make that happen.

I’m fine with going young up front, but at some point I think Yzerman needs to be held accountable for not upgrading the top 4 on defense if we don’t make any kind of clear cut upgrade.

I don’t think it’s acceptable to have 2 seasons in a row where you barely miss the playoffs and you follow that up with barely improving your roster. I think we need to see more urgency.

well, that kind of accuracy is what happens when you let schmucks like me have an opinion A lot of us predicted Boston to collapse for awhile now, too.

With the blueline, I want to know where they see ASP next year. That influences how much I want to see on the blueline. Right now, I'm not hating the idea of

Ed-Mo
Albert-ASP
Chia-Fabbro
Gus? Tuomisto?

The first pair can carry us, and the other two pairs can have their spots picked a bit (especially Al-ASP). If we are dead set on Ed and Mo on different pairs, at that point I'd probably like to see a LD picked up somewhere but I also wouldn't be against trying Albert there. If ASP is going to be in GR, we need a RD and a LD, imo. And I'd be fine with Lindgren/Fabbro for it.

For me, ASP is the key.

 

[Frk It]

well, that kind of accuracy is what happens when you let schmucks like me have an opinion A lot of us predicted Boston to collapse for awhile now, too.

With the blueline, I want to know where they see ASP next year. That influences how much I want to see on the blueline. Right now, I'm not hating the idea of

Ed-Mo
Albert-ASP
Chia-Fabbro
Gus? Tuomisto?

The first pair can carry us, and the other two pairs can have their spots picked a bit (especially Al-ASP). If we are dead set on Ed and Mo on different pairs, at that point I'd probably like to see a LD picked up somewhere but I also wouldn't be against trying Albert there. If ASP is going to be in GR, we need a RD and a LD, imo. And I'd be fine with Lindgren/Fabbro for it.

For me, ASP is the key.

That's a good point, and in your hypothetical scenario I could be OK with rolling with that blue line and not be as thirsty for finding an upgrade via UFA/trade.

This stuff just requires some pain-staking patience from us at times, and as a fellow schmuck, it is hard.

 

[SirloinUB]

Yet you want them to sign Marner at all costs? Maybe he has no interest in Detroit. Maybe another team gets silly in the Marner sweepstakes.

I'll reply to this first because its good context. I would consider Marner a long shot. The differentiation Ill make between him and a guy like Provorov/Gavrikov is I think Marner is the kind of player worth overpaying for. Getting a 90-100 point is a long shot but well worth getting very aggressive for. Is it likely we land him? probably not but if an "overpay" can make it happen then I say go for it.

Provorov/Gavrikov on the other hand Id like to add but Im not willing to outbid the market.

So another year of not actually upgrading the roster?

I found it pretty funny last year that people celebrated not giving out bad contracts, as opposed to being concerned we didn’t upgrade the roster.

Unfortunately these two things are somewhat tied together. And I mean, look how that played out for us this year…

Meanwhile teams like Washington gave out those “bad contracts” and then smoked us in the standings.

Not all moves and upgrades are equal. Overpaying for another mid level guy isn't much of an upgrade and counterproductive if its a really bad contract. Giving Provorov 7.5/8M+ for 30 points isn't the solution here. If we can get him for under 7? sure go nuts. The guy is playing the first pair role in Columbus so many clamour for him to play here and they're no better off than we are. I will admit I have a little more time for Gavrikov but I would also counter the kings are a much better term across the board.

Sometimes no moves or little moves are better. Like I said, the UFA market is going to be a feeding frenzy. There is 700 million in cap space this off season with 160 open roster spots. Thats room for 4.4 AAV/per player. Obviously teams will have some cheap skaters and young elcs filling those vacancies so on average teams will be able to spend even more than that. These non star players are going to get significant money this summer. I absolutely believe in a year two people on this forum will be talking about all the bad contracts handed out in the summer of 2025. The offseason is primed to be a repeat of 2016.

There are other options, RFA, trade market, internal development to upgrade. But yea Id rather run it back and leave some room for kids than overpay on the likes of provorov, boeser etc.


As for the caps I dont know man.. As i recalled they mostly stayed out of the Free agent market? Moreover is it repetable?

They made some high risk trades that didnt cost them much (their own problem contract traded for dubois/ Jensen and a 3rd for Chychrun). I mean if trades like that fell in our lap (compher for legit starting goalie, Chairot and a 3rd for a 1st pairing dman) Id be all over that.

Oh and they have the greatest goal scorer of all time is putting up the 3rd best goals/game of his career (very comparable situation to the red wings...



For the record I think Yzerman will sign someone and I think (unless its marner) you will all be bitching about that contract in 6-16 months.

 

[Coach Reggie Dunlop]

Just establishing that If we somehow sign marner his new nickname is motor city Mitch

 

[Frk It]

I'll reply to this first because its good context. I would consider Marner a long shot. The differentiation Ill make between him and a guy like Provorov/Gavrikov is I think Marner is the kind of player worth overpaying for. Getting a 90-100 point is a long shot but well worth getting very aggressive for. Is it likely we land him? probably not but if an "overpay" can make it happen then I say go for it.

Provorov/Gavrikov on the other hand Id like to add but Im not willing to outbid the market.




Not all moves and upgrades are equal. Overpaying for another mid level guy isn't much of an upgrade and counterproductive if its a really bad contract. Giving Provorov 7.5/8M+ for 30 points isn't the solution here. If we can get him for under 7? sure go nuts. The guy is playing the first pair role in Columbus so many clamour for him to play here and they're no better off than we are. I will admit I have a little more time for Gavrikov but I would also counter the kings are a much better term across the board.

Sometimes no moves or little moves are better. Like I said, the UFA market is going to be a feeding frenzy. There is 700 million in cap space this off season with 160 open roster spots. Thats room for 4.4 AAV/per player. Obviously teams will have some cheap skaters and young elcs filling those vacancies so on average teams will be able to spend even more than that. These non star players are going to get significant money this summer. I absolutely believe in a year two people on this forum will be talking about all the bad contracts handed out in the summer of 2025. The offseason is primed to be a repeat of 2016.

There are other options, RFA, trade market, internal development to upgrade. But yea Id rather run it back and leave some room for kids than overpay on the likes of provorov, boeser etc.


For the record I think Yzerman will sign someone and I think (unless its marner) you will all be bitching about that contract in 6-16 months.

But do you not think Provorov and Boeser are clear tangible upgrades to what we have?

I mean you draw the line at 1.5 mil/year to getting a guy who clearly provides an upgrade or not?

I guess we will just fundamentally agree to disagree on that.

If I overpay on 2 guys that I feel concretely make my team better, I am going to be fine with making that trade-off. Especially if I am managing a team that has been right on the cusp of the playoffs 2 years in a row.

 

[SirloinUB]

But do you not think Provorov and Boeser are clear tangible upgrades to what we have?

I mean you draw the line at 1.5 mil/year to getting a guy who clearly provides an upgrade or not?

I guess we will just fundamentally agree to disagree on that.

If I overpay on 2 guys that I feel concretely make my team better, I am going to be fine with making that trade-off. Especially if I am managing a team that has been right on the cusp of the playoffs 2 years in a row.

Does Provorov make the team that much better? He's playing that number 2 role in columbus and they're no better off than we are.

Same question about Boeser? The canucks have a better 1C, a better 1D a better 2D and they missed the playoffs with Boeser.

They're both useful pieces but the kind of talent you regret overpaying for imo.

 

[Frk It]

Does Provorov make the team better? He's playing that number 2 role in columbus and they're no better off than we are.

Same question about Boeser? The canucks have a better 1C, a better 1D a better 2D and they missed the playoffs with Boeser.

They're both useful pieces but the kind of talent you regret overpaying for imo.

Yes and yes. At least to me, maybe I think of them more highly than you do.

Provorov would be a big upgrade to the top pair as a partner for Seider over Chiarot. Columbus record does not make Provorov bad. If anything, he helped them be in a playoff push, and did anyone see that team doing that?

Boeser has scored 65 goals over the last 2 years. He would be a clear upgrade over every winger we have minus Raymond and DeBrincat.

 

[schuelma24]

Does Provorov make the team that much better? He's playing that number 2 role in columbus and they're no better off than we are.

Same question about Boeser? The canucks have a better 1C, a better 1D a better 2D and they missed the playoffs with Boeser.

They're both useful pieces but the kind of talent you regret overpaying for imo.

I don't completely disagree, but between the rising cap and completely screwing up most of his earlier FA moves..I think overpaying for actual good players is needed at this point. And I think Provorov would have an immensely positive downstream impact on the rest of the D for the short and long term.

 

[SirloinUB]

Yes and yes. At least to me, maybe I think of them more highly than you do.

Provorov would be a big upgrade to the top pair as a partner for Seider over Chiarot. Columbus record does not make Provorov bad. If anything, he helped them be in a playoff push, and did anyone see that team doing that?

Boeser has scored 65 goals over the last 2 years. He would be a clear upgrade over every winger we have minus Raymond and DeBrincat.

Id argue columbus is pretty similar to us. They traded for Provorov to upgrade their D and he was worth it at 6M. At 8M you've lost me.

Similar with Boeser. If you can get him for 7.5? go for it. I think he is going to cost closer to 9, maybe more. As an aside he's a net front player more than anything, that's where he scores his goals. 9M net front player? that isn't going to get us where we want to go imo.

I don't completely disagree, but between the rising cap and completely screwing up most of his earlier FA moves..I think overpaying for actual good players is needed at this point. And I think Provorov would have an immensely positive downstream impact on the rest of the D for the short and long term.

The truth is much of this conversation is in the weeds. My argument isn't: "Yzerman shouldn't upgrade at all" Id love to see some upgrades. Id like to sign marner, Id like to let go of the dead weight, Id like to trade our 2025 1st for a top half of the lineup kind of player.

My opinion is "Yzerman shouldn't pay an absurd price for mid level upgrades." I think most of the names out there are mid level and the prices will be absurd. I hope I'm wrong but I don't see a world were the prices aren't crazy.

You guys are higher on provorov than I am. Same with Boeser.