GDT: Your New Jersey Devils (5-2-0, 10 Pts) vs. Washington Capitals (2-1-0, 4 Pts), 7 PM, MSGSN2

[Whaddagoal]

Logan Thompson was the better goalie

Tonight, definitely. Slightly concerned with Marky looking like a good version of blackwood here. High highs and low lows.

 

[Hisch13r]

I'm not sure. Maybe the long-term solution is to somehow find a center and put him on wing. Other than that, I would say, I'd like to see him be more assertive with carrying the puck out in the dzone, but he kind of has, he's just been fumbling the puck left and right. idk how you fix that lol. Maybe he needs Luke back to tell him to stop sucking or something

He’s always fumbled pucks left and right. That happened constantly even when he was good.

 

[Captain3rdLine]

If Lemaire and DeBoer could make it work with Kovalchuk, Keefe should eventually be able to make it work with Jack. It's just a matter of how soon Jack embraces that change. Kovalchuk had already been in the league a decade without any real success so he might have been more amenable to it than Jack could be now.

Ya not sure how you make it work though. Kovalchuk was a very different player.

 

[Emperoreddy]

It's insane to me to have any take that believes Jack is never going to figure it out and is just a junk average forward for good now.

That's get off the ledge shit and people are gonna look stupid when he is doing Jack shit in a month

 

[Captain3rdLine]

He’s always fumbled pucks left and right. That happened constantly even when he was good.

He does it more and it’s more noticeable when he’s not skating as much. Because he overstickhandles and doesn’t make up for it with his skating.

It's insane to me to have any take that believes Jack is never going to figure it out and is just a junk average forward for good now.

That's get off the ledge shit and people are gonna look stupid when he is doing Jack shit in a month

Who in here is saying anything close to that?

 

[Devs3cups]

Don't really need to say anything. Just stating that the extra games in hand is giving them cushion right now. No one really disagreed with that other than 1 person, so not a big deal

I think I just misunderstood the initial point, apologies! I don’t disagree with that statement so hopefully you weren’t talking about me there!

 

[PKs Broken Stick]

He does it more and it’s more noticeable when he’s not skating as much. Because he overstickhandles and doesn’t make up for it with his skating.

Yea I guess I'll go back to my original statement. I'd like to see him be more assertive with his skating in the dzone. He seems way too passive right now and it's making his warts come out more frequently

 

[Captain3rdLine]

I'm not sure. Maybe the long-term solution is to somehow find a center and put him on wing. Other than that, I would say, I'd like to see him be more assertive with carrying the puck out in the dzone, but he kind of has, he's just been fumbling the puck left and right. idk how you fix that lol. Maybe he needs Luke back to tell him to stop sucking or something

As I alluded to above. He does always fumble pucks but I think it’s worse when he’s not playing through his skating. When he thinks he’s a Kane type hands guy it becomes very apparent that he isn’t IMO

 

[Saugus]

We didn’t deserve a point out of that shitfest, still got one.

I’ll take it.

 

[PKs Broken Stick]

I think I just misunderstood the initial point, apologies! I don’t disagree with that statement so hopefully you weren’t talking about me there!

Nah, not you

 

[Captain3rdLine]

I tend to think slowing is better sometimes as his linemates aren't always anticipating his high IQ plays that he can generate that they aren't expecting by default. Only Bratt is closest adaption to that (peanut butter and jelly) and they seem to have ridiculous chemistry when things are really firing on all cylinders.

Agree to disagree here. It’s not a disconnect with linemates that’s the problem right now. He can start to slowdown at times more once he’s pushing the game with his skating first and backing D off with his speed. Right now he’s not doing that and just trying to play through his hands and passing. Which is never gonna work for him IMO.

 

[devilsblood]

Agree to disagree here. It’s not a disconnect with linemates that’s the problem right now. He can start to slowdown at times more once he’s pushing the game with his skating first and backing D off with his speed. Right now he’s not doing that and just trying to play through his hands and passing. Which is never gonna work for him IMO.

Although I agree he fumbles the puck more the one would expect from a player of his ilk, his hands and passing are still strengths in general.

Maybe not a great analogy, but he has a little of the Eli Manning type passing game. Well placed, but wobbly.

Edit: Also in agreement with @Whaddagoal I've always thought it's not easy to be on Hughes's wing. We've seen a ton of guys, starting with Palms struggle playing with him. I do think it takes high end offensive ability to really thrive with Hughes.

 

[Hisch13r]

I feel like there’s this weird revisionist history going on with Jack because he’s not been himself for such a long time now. People are acting like he needs to overhaul his game and become this responsible guy that plays within the confines of the system and adjusts his game to be his best. I don’t want that guy. I want the 21-22 and 22-23 Jack that was out there doing his thing and pummeling the competition. He wasn’t some freewheeler that just only cared about offense. He was engaged defensively and posted strong defensive results. Sure the guy wasn’t Bergeron out there but that’s not what you want from Jack Hughes.

 

[Better Call Sal]

So in all, my time watching this game was disjointed. Keefe ended up putting Palat with Jack and Bratt and moved Cotter down to the 4th line right? I have to wonder what he does with those 3 lines going into next game.

I honestly would try Noesen with Bratt and Jack if it's doable. He makes shit happen.

 

[PKs Broken Stick]

Edit: Also in agreement with @Whaddagoal I've always thought it's not easy to be on Hughes's wing. We've seen a ton of guys, starting with Palms struggle playing with him. I do think it takes high end offensive ability to really thrive with Hughes.

I don't agree with this. Superstars elevate others, not the other way around

 

[Captain3rdLine]

I feel like there’s this weird revisionist history going on with Jack because he’s not been himself for such a long time now. People are acting like he needs to overhaul his game and become this responsible guy that plays within the confines of the system and adjusts his game to be his best. I don’t want that guy. I want the 21-22 and 22-23 Jack that was out there doing his thing and pummeling the competition. He wasn’t some freewheeler that just only cared about offense. He was engaged defensively and posted strong defensive results. Sure the guy wasn’t Bergeron out there but that’s not what you want from Jack Hughes.

He put up strong defensive results by driving possession and spending a lot of time in the ozone. He’s still always cheated to offence at times and he doesn’t exactly play very structured defensively. But that’s something you probably just live with if what he brings offensively from playing that outweighs it as it most likely does when he’s playing well.

 

[Hisch13r]

So in all, my time watching this game was disjointed. Keefe ended up putting Palat with Jack and Bratt and moved Cotter down to the 4th line right? I have to wonder what he does with those 3 lines going into next game.

I honestly would try Noesen with Bratt and Jack if it's doable. He makes shit happen.

Cotter with them was really bad tonight. They didn't even register a CF. Granted part of that was Jack was really bad in the first and Bratt being under the weather but it was not working and the 4th line with Palat was miserable yet again. At this point I think you have to try Palat with Nico. That's the one place he hasn't been tried and he's already dragged down the 3 other lines. With how Nico is going if Palat manages to drag him down then he's truly cooked.

He put up strong defensive results by driving possession and spending a lot of time in the ozone. He’s still always cheated to offence at times and he doesn’t exactly play very structured defensively. But that’s something you probably just live with if what he brings offensively from playing that outweighs it as it most likely does when he’s playing well.

Yes that's primarily why he did but it's also not like guy had been some Kane type that doesn't give a single f*** defensively in those years. Just because he doesn't play defense in the way Nico does in the DZ doesn't mean Jack was some disengaged floater defensively.

 

[Captain3rdLine]

Cotter with them was really bad tonight. They didn't even register a CF. Granted part of that was Jack was really bad in the first and Bratt being under the weather but it was not working and the 4th line with Palat was miserable yet again. At this point I think you have to try Palat with Nico. That's the one place he hasn't been tried and he's already dragged down the 3 other lines. With how Nico is going if Palat manages to drag him down then he's truly cooked.



Yes that's primarily why he did but it's also not like guy has ever been some Kane type that doesn't give a single f*** defensively. Just because he doesn't play defense in the way Nico does in the DZ doesn't mean Jack was some disengaged floater defensively.

I don’t think it’s a thing where people think he doesn’t care defensively. More so just that he was aloud leeway to cheat to offence a fair bit by Ruff. As I said the positives from that may very well far outweigh the negatives but it does seem like Keefe may be snuffing that out of him a bit. Which may be affecting his offence a bit although I don’t think it’s even close to the sole reason.

 

[Whaddagoal]

I don't agree with this. Superstars elevate others, not the other way around

Not always true IMO. Some superstars are superstars because they are exceptional and uniquely talented, not because they elevate everyone around. Kovy was like that early on. He could just pile drive a one man show at will. Ovechkin was like that for most of his career too (particularly the early seasons), can't say either of those guys made people better early on either. It was only after Lemaire and PDB did Kovy seem to elevate others around him. Some have said that is revisionist with Kovy, but that is what I remember as well.

Actually, right now since begining of turn of year 2024 (last season), Nico is the one elevating others more when it comes to linemates. Whomever he is playing with, have a better game. Meier, Palat, Mercer, (him and Jack never have issues the rare times that is matched), Tatar. Whomever with Nico seems to have decent chemistry all around.

 

[NJDevs26]

I feel like there’s this weird revisionist history going on with Jack because he’s not been himself for such a long time now. People are acting like he needs to overhaul his game and become this responsible guy that plays within the confines of the system and adjusts his game to be his best. I don’t want that guy. I want the 21-22 and 22-23 Jack that was out there doing his thing and pummeling the competition. He wasn’t some freewheeler that just only cared about offense. He was engaged defensively and posted strong defensive results. Sure the guy wasn’t Bergeron out there but that’s not what you want from Jack Hughes.

Like someone else said, that guy was playing in a system that didn't exactly structure him on paper. This is a structured system, he'll have to evolve somewhat. If he can't then he's not as good a player as we all thought two years ago.

 

[Captain3rdLine]

Completely different topic of discussion but an observation of mine that I wonder if anyone agrees with. I feel like Tatar is over stickhandling right now and it’s limiting him.

I swear every shift I see him win a battle, beat a guy, or get himself into a good spot. And just when it looks like he’s done really well he decides to stick handle an extra time or two or make a move and it completely ruins it.

 

[Hisch13r]

Like someone else said, that guy was playing in a system that didn't exactly structure him. This is a structured system, he'll have to evolve somewhat. If he can't then he's not as good a player as we all thought two years ago.

If he can't do that then you shouldn't neuter him and force him into it and making your star worse. I think there's more going on than that considering I didn't like his game last year either but if he works through that other thing and he still isn't himself because of the "structure" then f*** the structure for Jack because him being his best is more important than trying to force a square peg into a round hole just because. It's not like Jack was a guy that was leaking chances and GA when he was at his best and getting outscored and out chanced. He was a guy that dominated play and controlled the goals.

 

[NJDevs26]

Jack certainly has the talent to play in any system. Whether he excels in it or not is up to him.

 

[devilsblood]

I don't agree with this. Superstars elevate others, not the other way around

That is often the case, but not always the case. He didn't elevate Palms. Shara was better with Zajac. No one likes Timo with Hughes.

Styles and chemistry are important.

Heck Haula seems to have a more positive effect on Hughes then vice versa.

 

[Captain3rdLine]

Jack certainly has the talent to play in any system. Whether he excels in it or not is up to him.

Not sure it’s nearly this simple. I think the style of play he thrives in makes it more difficult to fit into more strict structures. He’s best when he’s free wheeling flying around.