Value of: your best offer for Evan Bouchard and Ryan McLeod (with a few stipulations)

[Broberg Speed]

The Oilers have roughly 5.62M in projected cap space, possibly a little more.

The Oilers have enough to sign Bouchard and McLeod but little to no cap space if they do. The Oilers should be capable of running a 22 man roster unless Bouchard and McLeod sign for the maximum rumoured, then the Oilers might face the challenges of running a 21 man roster. The need is to fill out the roster while increasing potential cap space. Hopefully improving the team.

Any offer should include a cap savings measure. Retained salary. Involving a third team. Incorporating a cap dump in the transaction, with an additional cost to the Oilers or team trading for Bouchard or McLeod. If not the Oilers are better off signing Bouchard and McLeod.

The perfect offer includes a top 4 RD and a third-line center going to the Oilers. Players the Oilers would be losing with Bouchard and McLeod. The Oilers should be looking for any and all proven veterans they can fit under the cap. Teams looking for high end young players with further room to develop should look to add Bouchard or McLeod.

The Oilers can add additional picks, players or prospects to accomodate any transaction for either one or both of these players. But the idea is to improve the team, this is not a fire sale. I'm trying to find creative ways to improve the Oilers to push them over the hump, not take on other teams trash and bad contracts. If anything the Oilers will pay to move undesirable contracts in order to accomodate a transaction.

Try to be realistic. Bouchard and McLeod are good young trading chips coming off of successful entry level contracts. Bouchard in particular should be of great interest to any team. Any trade involving Bouchard must improve the Oilers immediately. The Oilers can throw in draft picks, prospects and players if it is possible to upgrade at either RD, third-line center or any position.

Feel free to offer up your opinion on the value of Bouchard and McLeod even if your team and the Oilers do not make good trading partners. If you can make a real offer without fulfilling the above stipulations, go ahead and make it. A deal either works or it doesn't. There will be no consensus and the input should be interesting.

Click to read more...

 

[DingDongCharlie]

The Oilers trade away Foegele before not keeping Bouchard.

 

[Broberg Speed]

The Oilers trade away Foegele before not keeping Bouchard.

Yes, we have universal consensus with the very first post. But the thread was intended for trade proposals with two players in mind not named Warren Foegele.

 

[EverTheCynic]

I don't think Bouchard is worth to other teams what he is to Edmonton.

When look at Bouchard I see a guy who plays 18 minutes a game. 60% ozone starts. Mans the top PP with McDrai and only put up 13pp points during the season. Nothing stands out with the eye test with him. Not an elite puck mover and skater. Not an elite defender. Not an elite zone entry guy. Not elite at PP QB. I'd have to see his heatmaps, but I just don't see anything to be excited about with the player or how he would fit in another environment.

Edmonton obviously thinks he's a younger better Barrie. That top unit PP QB who is gonna become a 23 minute top pairing all situations guy.

I just don't see that with Bouchard, and wouldn't give up that much for him..

2nd and a prospect maybe? Don't think id give up a 1st for him, barring it being a weak draft or a very late pick.

 

[Broberg Speed]

I don't think Bouchard is worth to other teams what he is to Edmonton.

When look at Bouchard I see a guy who plays 18 minutes a game. 60% ozone starts. Mans the top PP with McDrai and only put up 13pp points during the season. Nothing stands out with the eye test with him. Not an elite puck mover and skater. Not an elite defender. Not an elite zone entry guy. Not elite at PP QB. I'd have to see his heatmaps, but I just don't see anything to be excited about with the player or how he would fit in another environment.

Edmonton obviously thinks he's a younger better Barrie. That top unit PP QB who is gonna become a 23 minute top pairing all situations guy.

I just don't see that with Bouchard, and wouldn't give up that much for him..

2nd and a prospect maybe? Don't think id give up a 1st for him, barring it being a weak draft or a very late pick.

I disagree. I think there are plenty of teams that would be doing backflips to the phone if they thought they could get Evan Bouchard for a 1st round pick. He's worth more than that.

But I wouldn't be opposed to trading Bouchard for draft picks and prospects that the Oilers could turn around and parlay into real players.

 

[EverTheCynic]

I disagree. I think there are plenty of teams that would be doing backflips to the phone if they thought they could get Evan Bouchard for a 1st round pick. He's worth more than that.

What about his game excites you? He's not a great skater. Not a great defender. Not physical or an outside force. Doesn't really do zone entries with the drop back. Doesn't really impress on the top PP, McDavid drops back near the blue line to get space and the PP runs through him. Bouchard is just kinda there as a back line bumper between McDavid and Drai.

He's got an okay slapper I guess? In an era where teams are throwing 2 men in the middle lane to stop point bombs so everyone walks the line and wrists it these days? Which Bouchard doesn't really do.

I just don't see anything in his game that warrants excitement or a 1st round pick.

You'd have to sell me on the guy, because I watched A LOT of Edmonton this year, and he didn't impress me at all.

 

[Broberg Speed]

What about his game excites you? He's not a great skater. Not a great defender. Not physical or an outside force. Doesn't really do zone entries with the drop back. Doesn't really impress on the top PP, McDavid drops back near the blue line to get space and the PP runs through him. Bouchard is just kinda there as a back line bumper between McDavid and Drai.

He's got an okay slapper I guess? In an era where teams are throwing 2 men in the middle lane to stop point bombs so everyone walks the line and wrists it these days?

I just don't see anything in his game that warrants excitement or a 1st round pick.

You'd have to sell me on the guy, because I watched A LOT of Edmonton this year, and he didn't impress me at all.

Bouchard is a terrific passer from the backend. Efficient and sometimes head spinning breakout passes. Upper echelon all the way. Any posters who have followed the player will back me up on this.

He is an elite passer and has an elite shot on the power play.

 

[EverTheCynic]

Bouchard is a terrific passer from the backend. Head spinning breakout passes. Upper echelon all the way. Any posters who has followed the player will back me up on this.

He is an elite passer and has an elite shot on the power play.

I mean, good outlet passes are sort of the bare minimum for a defenseman. Not really a feather in his cap so much as the basic requirement of an NHL defenseman.

And as I said, the big point bomb is dying because of the diamond pk response to the 1-3-1 PP everyone is running. They stick 2 guys in the center lane so shots just don't get through anymore.

He's positioned as a top 4 offensive guy but in the modern NHL you would expect someone like that to have elite mobility and skating.

If someone doesn't have that, they tend to focus more on the defensive side of things. But Bouchard isn't particularly great there either.

I just don't see what Edmonton fans see. The PP is very much run by McDavid, that's why he's constantly dropping back to the blue line. Bouchard is just a bumper between McDavid up high on the left side and Drai down low on the right.

That's why he only had 2 PP goals all season. He's not really doing a whole lot back there. At least nothing that would warrant something like a 1st round pick.

I just don't see it man. 2nd and a prospect is where I'm at, and that's only because he's young and will likely improve his game.

I see Severson as his ceiling. What would prime Severson fetch? Probably not a 1st right? Like a 2nd a prospect?

 

[Broberg Speed]

I mean, good outlet passes are sort of the bare minimum for a defenseman. Not really a feather in his cap so much as the basic requirement of an NHL defenseman.

And as I said, the big point bomb is dying because of the diamond pk response to the 1-3-1 PP everyone is running. They stick 2 guys in the center lane so shots just don't get through anymore.

He's positioned as a top 4 offensive guy but in the modern NHL you would expect someone like that to have elite mobility and skating.

If someone doesn't have that, they tend to focus more on the defensive side of things. But Bouchard isn't particularly great there either.

I just don't see what Edmonton fans see. The PP is very much run by McDavid, that's why he's constantly dropping back to the blue line. Bouchard is just a bumper between McDavid up high on the left side and Drai down low on the right.

That's why he only had 2 PP goals all season. He's not really doing a whole lot back there. At least nothing that would warrant something like a 1st round pick.

I just don't see it man. 2nd and a prospect is where I'm at, and that's only because he's young and will likely improve his game.

I see Severson as his ceiling. What would prime Severson fetch? Probably not a 1st right? Like a 2nd a prospect?

Not really, it's a rare commodity when you pass like Bouchard. Not all teams possess a defenseman that can pass like Bouchard and that's a fact.

The big point bomb works well for the number one power play in history. It would work well for any team. Don't discount Bouchard's puck distribution on the power play. It's excellent.

Bouchard is an average skater. Not above average. Not below average. If he was an elite skater packaged with his size and offensive abilities he would deserve Norris consideration already.

I'd say one of Evan Bouchard's best comparables is Dougie Hamilton. And I'd be surprised if his career didn't follow suit. Similar skater. Similar skill set. Bouchard already reached the 40 point plateau twice faster than Hamilton did.

 

[Belial]

 

[EverTheCynic]

Not really, it's a rare commodity when you pass like Bouchard. Not all teams possess a defenseman that can pass like Bouchard and that's a fact.

The big point bomb works well for the number one power play in history. It would work well for any team. Don't discount Bouchard's puck distribution on the power play. It's excellent.

Bouchard is an average skater. Not above average. Not below average. If he was an elite skater packaged with his size and offensive abilities he would deserve Norris consideration already.

I'd say one of Evan Bouchard's best comparables is Dougie Hamilton. And I'd be surprised if his career didn't follow suit. Similar skater. Similar skill set. Bouchard already reached the 40 point plateau twice faster than Hamilton did.

40 points is great but you can't take that out of its context. He got 40 points playing with McDrai. Who had almost 300 points between the two of them. Which is kind of ridiculous when you think about it.

I didn't notice anything exceptional with his outlet but I'll take your word that it's really good. Probably a good thing if you don't notice a defenseman in that area. Usually when you do it's for the wrong reasons

1st round picks are valuable, and I just don't see what in Bouchards game warrants that kind of excitement about his development.

Skating and mobility is a nay. He's not gonna be taking loose pucks and leading odd man rushes up the ice. Hands are a nay. So with the skating he's not gonna be the guy you drop back to where he walks into the zone with possession. His size and physicality are a nay. So he's not punishing people on the outside and in the corners. He's not dominating down low and getting pucks out. Nothing he does on the PP is exciting. He's literally just playing as a back line bumper, with McDavid playing the PP QB by dropping back.

Ok he has a great outlet. Let's say that. What else is there? A slapper when nobody really slaps it anymore on the PP?

If you're moving a 1st, you need something else there. Elite skating. Good hands. You want a guy you can kick it back to so he can carry it in. You want a guy who can move laterally under pressure on the PP and get pucks on net. You want a guy who can either punish forecheckers with physicality, or have a strong stick and use body positioning to win outside battles.

You want something. An identity. A role. What does Bouchard do? He's not the mobile guy on his pairing in the top 4, but he's also not the defensive outside guy either.

I just don't see what is there or what you are seeing.

Dougie is an elite skater and always had silky smooth hands. Bouchard just isn't that guy.

 

[Stealth1616]

40 points is great but you can't take that out of its context. He got 40 points playing with McDrai. Who had almost 300 points between the two of them. Which is kind of ridiculous when you think about it.

I didn't notice anything exceptional with his outlet but I'll take your word that it's really good. Probably a good thing if you don't notice a defenseman in that area. Usually when you do it's for the wrong reasons

1st round picks are valuable, and I just don't see what in Bouchards game warrants that kind of excitement about his development.

Skating and mobility is a nay. He's not gonna be taking loose pucks and leading odd man rushes up the ice. Hands are a nay. So with the skating he's not gonna be the guy you drop back to where he walks into the zone with possession. His size and physicality are a nay. So he's not punishing people on the outside and in the corners. He's not dominating down low and getting pucks out. Nothing he does on the PP is exciting. He's literally just playing as a back line bumper, with McDavid playing the PP QB by dropping back.

Ok he has a great outlet. Let's say that. What else is there? A slapper when nobody really slaps it anymore on the PP?

If you're moving a 1st, you need something else there. Elite skating. Good hands. You want a guy you can kick it back to so he can carry it in. You want a guy who can move laterally under pressure on the PP and get pucks on net. You want a guy who can either punish forecheckers with physicality, or have a strong stick and use body positioning to win outside battles.

You want something. An identity. A role. What does Bouchard do? He's not the mobile guy on his pairing in the top 4, but he's also not the defensive outside guy either.

I just don't see what is there or what you are seeing.

Dougie is an elite skater and always had silky smooth hands. Bouchard just isn't that guy.

Just so you know, Bouchard only played on the top powerplay after Barrie was dealt.

This also makes me think you don’t actually watch the Oilers

 

[AirGut]

Schneider for Mcleod straight up

 

[EverTheCynic]

Just so you know, Bouchard only played on the top powerplay after Barrie was dealt.

This also makes me think you don’t actually watch the Oilers

I mean, I explained how your PP functions (teehee). So I clearly did watch a lot.

But yes I'm aware that Barrie was moved midseason.

I stand by everything I said. I just don't see what is there in Bouchards game to suggest he's gonna be a top 4 staple.

Kinda like a Severson to me. Not super offensive, but not super defensive or grindy. Average skater.

Just nothing really exciting in his toolbox. Not sure what he's supposed to do. Can fill the spot I guess in a serviceable sort of way.

But I ain't giving up a 1st for that. I'd rather roll the dice on a prospect and find someone who does the things my team is looking for. Whatever that would be.

 

[Deas]

I mean, good outlet passes are sort of the bare minimum for a defenseman. Not really a feather in his cap so much as the basic requirement of an NHL defenseman.

And as I said, the big point bomb is dying because of the diamond pk response to the 1-3-1 PP everyone is running. They stick 2 guys in the center lane so shots just don't get through anymore.

He's positioned as a top 4 offensive guy but in the modern NHL you would expect someone like that to have elite mobility and skating.

If someone doesn't have that, they tend to focus more on the defensive side of things. But Bouchard isn't particularly great there either.

I just don't see what Edmonton fans see. The PP is very much run by McDavid, that's why he's constantly dropping back to the blue line. Bouchard is just a bumper between McDavid up high on the left side and Drai down low on the right.

That's why he only had 2 PP goals all season. He's not really doing a whole lot back there. At least nothing that would warrant something like a 1st round pick.

I just don't see it man. 2nd and a prospect is where I'm at, and that's only because he's young and will likely improve his game.

I see Severson as his ceiling. What would prime Severson fetch? Probably not a 1st right? Like a 2nd a prospect?

Not that I value Bouchard overly much but I think your case is a bit flawed.

A good shoot is not useless because of the new PP and PK setups. There are plenty of shots going through the clogged middle or now and then better shooting opportunities present themselves.

Also his PP points season totals are irrelevant due to his limited PP-TOI before Barrie’s departure. Look at his late season and playoff stats.

 

[Broberg Speed]

What do you think the Habs could offer? Bouchard fits the timeline for a Canadiens rebuild perfectly. So does McLeod.

You have a shitload of picks and so many prospects now from your shitload of picks, you can't possibly fit them all into the organization.

Give them to the Oilers, then the Oilers can buy veterans and cap space from a third party with your shitload of picks and prospects.

40 points is great but you can't take that out of its context. He got 40 points playing with McDrai. Who had almost 300 points between the two of them. Which is kind of ridiculous when you think about it.

I didn't notice anything exceptional with his outlet but I'll take your word that it's really good. Probably a good thing if you don't notice a defenseman in that area. Usually when you do it's for the wrong reasons

1st round picks are valuable, and I just don't see what in Bouchards game warrants that kind of excitement about his development.

Skating and mobility is a nay. He's not gonna be taking loose pucks and leading odd man rushes up the ice. Hands are a nay. So with the skating he's not gonna be the guy you drop back to where he walks into the zone with possession. His size and physicality are a nay. So he's not punishing people on the outside and in the corners. He's not dominating down low and getting pucks out. Nothing he does on the PP is exciting. He's literally just playing as a back line bumper, with McDavid playing the PP QB by dropping back.

Ok he has a great outlet. Let's say that. What else is there? A slapper when nobody really slaps it anymore on the PP?

If you're moving a 1st, you need something else there. Elite skating. Good hands. You want a guy you can kick it back to so he can carry it in. You want a guy who can move laterally under pressure on the PP and get pucks on net. You want a guy who can either punish forecheckers with physicality, or have a strong stick and use body positioning to win outside battles.

You want something. An identity. A role. What does Bouchard do? He's not the mobile guy on his pairing in the top 4, but he's also not the defensive outside guy either.

I just don't see what is there or what you are seeing.

Dougie is an elite skater and always had silky smooth hands. Bouchard just isn't that guy.

Evan Bouchard never took over the #1 power play unit until Tyson Barrie was traded at the deadline. Then he took off when he finally got the opportunity.

Check his game statistics after the trade deadline and check his playoff production. Two separate hyperlinks are included for your convenience.

Please note the time period after the trade deadline, starting on March 4, and then the playoffs. If you aren't impressed by those numbers I don't know what else I can add.

I understand you either don't see that much in Bouchard as a player or are looking to lowball the offer. That's fine.

Most see Bouchard as a lock to put up 60 points with the Oilers next season. I can't say I disagree.

 

[DearDiary]

ES stats
2022 season = 35 points (81 games)
2023 season = 26 points (82 games)

2022 playoffs = 6 points (16 games)
2023 playoffs = 2 points (12 games)

He's on a decline and was only relevant because of the Oilers historic powerplay

 

[Broberg Speed]

Schneider for Mcleod straight up

Braden Schneider? I don't know much about the player. But from a glance it looks like he could be a fit. I don't watch the Rangers to be honest.

Do you know what kind of money Schneider may be looking at. McLeod is looking for ~2M per season. For a year or maybe two.

 

[Broberg Speed]

ES stats
2022 season = 35 points (81 games)
2023 season = 26 points (82 games)

2022 playoffs = 6 points (16 games)
2023 playoffs = 2 points (12 games)

He's on a decline and was only relevant because of the Oilers historic powerplay

Bouchard put up 17 points in 12 playoff games. That's good, isn't it?

 

[Belial]

What do you think the Habs could offer? Bouchard fits the timeline for a Canadiens rebuild perfectly. So does McLeod.

You have a shitload of picks and so many prospects now from your shitload of picks, you can't possibly fit them all into the organization.

Give them to the Oilers, then the Oilers can buy veterans and cap space from a third party with your shitload of picks and prospects.

We're loaded on D already, I don't think we need any more D's... We'll probably start selling them soon if they all hit.

 

[Broberg Speed]

We're loaded on D already, I don't think we need any more D's... We'll probably start selling them soon if they all hit.

Best of luck to the Habs. If you decide to place an offer for either of the mentioned players I'll be listening.

 

[Belial]

Best of luck to the Habs. If you decide to place an offer for either of the mentioned players I'll be listening.

My question was more about why are you trying to move Bouchard.

 

[DearDiary]

Bouchard put up 17 points in 12 playoff games. That's good, isn't it?

15 powerplay points in 12 playoff games = good
2 ES points in 12 playoff games = bad

good powerplay + bad ES = powerplay specialist

 

[Broberg Speed]

My question was more about why are you trying to move Bouchard.

I think the Oilers would be better served with a more rounded top 4 veteran two-way puck moving defenceman. The powerplay will be outstanding if Nurse or even Ekholm take over the point position. It's about distributing resources around evenly to increase our chances at winning.

A traditional 3rd-line center built strictly for shutting down the oppositions' top players that plays unrelenting positional hockey is what the Oilers need. Not a rocket with untapped offensive potential in McLeod.

I respect that you acknowledge the value of both Bouchard and McLeod. Both solid young players.

It has everything to do with the Oilers winning the Stanley Cup. Edmonton and Montreal are in two different stages of team building at this moment, and I mean absolutely no disrespect to what the Canadiens are building by that statement. I'm following closely and anticipate watching a bunch of your games.

You guys are building and the Oilers should be bringing the Stanley Cup back to Canada, where it belongs.

Down with Gary Bettman.

15 powerplay points in 12 playoff games = good
2 ES points in 12 playoff games = bad

good powerplay + bad ES = powerplay specialist

I understand your opinion and I validate you as a human being. We all do. But do you have a trade proposal?

 

[Belial]

I think the Oilers would be better served with a more rounded top 4 veteran two-way puck moving defenceman. The powerplay will be outstanding if Nurse or even Ekholm take over the point position. It's about distributing resources around evenly to increase our chances at winning.

A traditional 3rd-line center built strictly for shutting down the oppositions' top players that plays unrelenting positional hockey is what the Oilers need. Not a rocket with untapped offensive potential in McLeod.

I respect that you acknowledge the value of both Bouchard and McLeod. Both solid young players.

It has everything to do with the Oilers winning the Stanley Cup. Edmonton and Montreal are in two different stages of team building at this moment, and I mean absolutely no disrespect to what the Canadiens are building by that statement. I'm following closely and anticipate watching a bunch of your games.

You guys are building and the Oilers should be bringing the Stanley Cup back to Canada, where it belongs.

Down with Gary Bettman.

I think I'm starting to like you...

I respect that you are able to acknowledge that your own team is just not built the right way.

The Kings got even better... I wouldn't be surprised if they bounce you out next season.