Yeah Sullivan Sucks, but Dubas needs to be talked about too...

[Gurglesons]

Ah yes, the good ole moving of the goalposts. When Dubas tried to make moves to win now they were lauded; when he fell flat on his face on those moves, now it's about making us good in 7-10 years.

Trading a 1st+2nd for an end of the ropes 10 million dollar Erik Karlsson? Definitely going to help us in 7 years.

Signing Jarry and Graves to above market price deals on 5 and 6 year deals respectively? Yes, that will absolutely help us in 7 years.

Failing to get a 1st round pick return on the org's best homegrown winger product in decades? You guessed it, that's going to help us in 7-10 years.

Yeah, the Dubas defending is completely insane.

Dude has totally f***ed this team in a way that we haven't seen in decades.

This concept that "there was nothing he can do" is completely put out to pasture by what Washington has done in the two years since he's been GM.

 

[HandshakeLine]

If Sullivan can't be fired, then lol at our limp dick PoHO who just exists to take the blame for someone else’s failure.

lol. I'm sure Dubas' terrible contract and trade negotiations that are identical here as they were in Toronto will suddenly change when Sullivan (Who he can fire.) is fired...

This time. This time it’ll be different. You’ll see!

(It will not be different.)

 

[HandshakeLine]

Lol that Kyle Dubas saw the incredibly low bar to clear after Hextall, and completely faceplanted.

 

[Jacob]

Sometimes there are factors outside of a GM’s control. We knew Jarry had issues and the contract wasn’t good but you couldn’t really predict a Campbell-like nosedive.

He should probably still be fired just the same but every trade and signing is like a coin flip even for a good GM.

 

[HandshakeLine]

On a related note, I think it’s immaterial if Dubas is a bad GM by his own choice or if ownership is forcing him to be a bad GM. A bad GM is a bad GM. And even more so when they’re technically the GM’s boss.

 

[Gurglesons]

Sometimes there are factors outside of a GM’s control. We knew Jarry had issues and the contract wasn’t good but you couldn’t really predict a Campbell-like nosedive.

He should probably still be fired just the same but every trade and signing is like a coin flip even for a good GM.

Anyone could have predicted that just like Graves if you paid attention.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Sometimes there are factors outside of a GM’s control. We knew Jarry had issues and the contract wasn’t good but you couldn’t really predict a Campbell-like nosedive.

He should probably still be fired just the same but every trade and signing is like a coin flip even for a good GM.

I was against the Jarry extension even prior to him being signed. His playoff performances and him shriveling like a flaccid penis after the all-star break weren't what I wanted this team to hinge their hopes on for a starting goalie.

 

[metalan2]

Well sort of…you can judge him for NOT firing Sullivan lol

Actually you're right.

You can because he can, you know, fire Sullivan. Instead, all we hear is praise for Sullivan and how he's this tremendous coach.

That's true.

We can all judge Dubas.

Verdict = Abysmal at his job.

Sometimes there are factors outside of a GM’s control. We knew Jarry had issues and the contract wasn’t good but you couldn’t really predict a Campbell-like nosedive.

He should probably still be fired just the same but every trade and signing is like a coin flip even for a good GM.

I didn't really expect a Campbell like nose dive, but I expected something similar. I'm not surprised though about it.

 

[Jag68Sid87]

Erik Karlsson was acquired as the reigning Norris trophy winner and coming off a 100-point campaign as a defenseman.

Can we stop talking nonsense please? End-of-the ropes Erik Karlsson? Come on people.

Erik Karlsson is probably the most direct example of Sullivan's complete and utter uselessness as a head coach.

 

[Coastal Kev]

Erik Karlsson was acquired as the reigning Norris trophy winner and coming off a 100-point campaign as a defenseman.

Can we stop talking nonsense please? End-of-the ropes Erik Karlsson? Come on people.

Erik Karlsson is probably the most direct example of Sullivan's complete and utter uselessness as a head coach.

Even if he was great, what would be the point for this team? I never understood why they didn't know where the roster was and where it would soon be.

 

[DesertPenguin]

I still don't blame him for the Karlsson deal. He had a mound of bad Hextall moves to clear out and he did in the fabled "All our bad players and a pick for your good player" deal. Karlsson hasn't worked out but that seems to be more the player and the coaches.

Jarry - cowardly move not wanting to be stuck without a solid goalie like he was in Toronto.

Graves - Just plain bad. Graves needs a solid defensive d man, a John Marino, next to him, and neither Letang nor Karlsson will be that.

Guentzel deal was OK, given that we got multiple quality pieces and a guy in Bunting who at least when he first arrived fit like a glove. No one is play well now, so I'll reserve judgement on him until we have a new coach.

The rest - moves made with the acknowledgement they weren't competing this year. Taking on picks and/or taking risks on reclaimation projects, with the ones that work out staying or being moved for more assets, and the ones that don't simply walking or being buried.

This team would be in so much better shape if Dubas wouldn't have signed Jarry and Graves.

 

[edog37]

Actually you're right.


That's true.

We can all judge Dubas.

Verdict = Abysmal at his job.


I didn't really expect a Campbell like nose dive, but I expected something similar. I'm not surprised though about it.

Dubas has done very well all things considered. He got rid of some bad contracts & is stockpiling picks. Yes, Jarry was bad, but they can buy him out at the end of the year or try & trade him if he shows any semblance of ability.

 

[Pens x]

Lol at people still defending Dubas

 

[edog37]

Lol at people still defending Dubas

lol at people who have no idea on what going through a rebuild entails.

Even if he was great, what would be the point for this team? I never understood why they didn't know where the roster was and where it would soon be.

The point was put all the chips in for one last run.

 

[Jag68Sid87]

Even if he was great, what would be the point for this team? I never understood why they didn't know where the roster was and where it would soon be.

Because the roster did not have to end up where it is today, that's the point. Everything since that trade has been mismanaged to the extreme.

Still a good trade in a vacuum.

 

[dueling mullets]

lol at people who have no idea on what going through a rebuild entails.


The point was put all the chips in for one last run.

So he's doing great and also failed at going all in, got it.

 

[Gurglesons]

lol at people who have no idea on what going through a rebuild entails.

It usually entails getting full value for pieces like Jake Guentzel. Not whatever the f*** we got.

 

[bambamcam4ever]

Erik Karlsson was acquired as the reigning Norris trophy winner and coming off a 100-point campaign as a defenseman.

Can we stop talking nonsense please? End-of-the ropes Erik Karlsson? Come on people.

Erik Karlsson is probably the most direct example of Sullivan's complete and utter uselessness as a head coach.

EK won the Norris because he didn't play defense for an entire season, isn't it weird how so many teams he's been on have been bad?

 

[Gurglesons]

EK won the Norris because he didn't play defense for an entire season, isn't it weird how so many teams he's been on have been bad?

I think EK is fine tbh. I don't get the focus on him this year.

He obviously started the season injured, but out of the start players minus Malkin, he's been the best overall on the year. Similar to last year subtracting Sid.

 

[edog37]

Even if he was great, what would be the point for this team? I never understood why they didn't know where the roster was and where it would soon be.

The point was put all the chips in for one last run.

It usually entails getting full value for pieces like Jake Guentzel. Not whatever the f*** we got.

Trades rarely result in getting “full value”.

So he's doing great and also failed at going all in, got it.

It’s going to be a long few years for some of you guys. You clearly have never seen a down Pens team.

Here’s what Dubas has done & it’s brilliant. He’s essentially increased our draft capital to one extra year. 29 picks in the next three years. The draft is 7 rounds, so you basically have a 4th year of picks in the next 3. That’s excellent GMing.

 

[Ragamuffin Gunner]

I f***ing hate Sully so much.

 

[BusinessGoose]

EK didn't address an actual need... Besides getting a really dynamic offensive dman

It's an exciting move to make your boring hockey team more exciting

He just looks like a very average whatever dman here, for *some* reason

It's a trade that is good except when it doesn't pan out and you lose a decent draft location

 

[Tender Rip]

EK didn't address an actual need... Besides getting a really dynamic offensive dman

It's an exciting move to make your boring hockey team more exciting

He just looks like a very average whatever dman here, for *some* reason

It's a trade that is good except when it doesn't pan out and you lose a decent draft location

It was a terrible trade because we needed boring cap-efficient D-men who could defend in order to free up cap to get offensive help. Not another top offensive D-man who doesn’t defend.

Incidentally this wasn’t new - its why I advocated trading Letang after the 2017 cup, which we won without him.
Btw. I also advocated dealing Kessel then, because it was obvious he was giving Malkin fits ES.

Think about where we would have been if we had done both back then to re-tool, as back to back champs, when Letang and Kessel had real value and “bargain years” on their deals….

Instead of those things, we got the Reaves deal .

Dubas has not had the options to keep us relevant that JR and less so Hex did, but getting Karlsson has proven a disaster, and in retrospect I think most agree it needed to be a home-run not to be a disaster for where we were in our cycle.

What Dubas should really be hated on for though, rather than trades, is keeping the coach we now fail to qualify for the playoffs with. This is a cancer so advanced, that none of Dubas roster moves can really be evaluated fairly.
Hex was axed for that failure when our streak ended. Sully stayed, and then the same thing happened next season and obviously will again this season.

 

[Zbynek]

Sometimes there are factors outside of a GM’s control. We knew Jarry had issues and the contract wasn’t good but you couldn’t really predict a Campbell-like nosedive.

He should probably still be fired just the same but every trade and signing is like a coin flip even for a good GM.

Actually a lot of us knew and did predict that as soon as the signing happened.

 

[HandshakeLine]

The point was put all the chips in for one last run.


Trades rarely result in getting “full value”.


It’s going to be a long few years for some of you guys. You clearly have never seen a down Pens team.

Here’s what Dubas has done & it’s brilliant. He’s essentially increased our draft capital to one extra year. 29 picks in the next three years. The draft is 7 rounds, so you basically have a 4th year of picks in the next 3. That’s excellent GMing.

Yeah, that 2027 draft is gonna be amazing.

I can't imagine why people don't have any faith in the guy, he's planning moves in 2027, lulling other GMs into thinking he doesn't have a plan, when that's the genius. The plan is to look like you don't have a plan!