X. Texas Stars (AHL) Discussion
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BigG44
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He's been fairly passed over as the starter. Both he an Rynnas struggled behind a weak defense early, and the D didn't really get that much better. Rynnas on the other hand picked his play up quite a bit. Lindback has played extremely well down with Texas as well. Campbell is now the back up to whoever is currently down with Texas.
Sucks for Campbell. Hope he can pull of what Jacob Markstrom is doing right now. Jacob was waived earlier this season, and now most reports indicate Vancouver wants to move out Lack and brink up Barkstrom as their back up. For now though he pretty much blew it after an injury filled season.
The team is seriously on the edge of missing the playoffs (playing much better now though that they've gone to Rynnas as the starter). The best guy should be playing because Campbell's development isn't more important than how valuable a deep playoff run could be again. If Texas can just get into the Final 8, they'll have a significant group of talent coming that could elevate the team from borderline playoff team to contender.
The thought of their potential defense alone when Dallas' season is out is pretty crazy. Based on Klingberg being given the All Star break off, it would seem that he wouldn't return, and that's probably the right call. On the other hand, you'd for sure have Oleksiak, Jokipakka, and there's no reason not to expect Nemeth. Nemeth has missed the entire year essentially ... seems weeks from coming back and all the news indicates that should happen. You're talking about one stout group of defenders, and 6 of them are battle tested last year on the Championship run.
I don't know if they'd bench Gauce, Meech, or Honka ... but it better not be Honka. His situation is different than Campbell. Honka is holding his own playing as well or better than the veterans. It's a no brainer you choose development over vet at that point. Campbell just isn't performing so it's is own issue that they needed to make this call. People will call him a bust, but he's waiver exempt one more year. I don't think it's over for him just yet, but the wheels are falling off.
BigG44
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They actually only play 76 games so his pace is at 25 points which would put him Top 80 all time in AHL history for a 19 year old player. That would put him 12th or 13th all time in AHL history for a defenseman who was in his 19 year old season.
Here are some recent names you'd recognize:
John Carlson (D) |2009-2010| Hershey Bears |48 |4 |35| 39
Vyacheslav Voinov (D) |2009-2010 |Manchester Monarchs| 79| 10| 19| 29
Ladislav Smid (D)| 2005-2006| Portland Pirates| 71| 3| 25| 28
Brent Burns (D)| 2004-2005| Houston Aeros| 73| 11| 16| 27
Ryan Suter (D) |2004-2005| Milwaukee Admirals| 63| 7| 16| 23
Captain Awesome
Registered User
Holy crap, that John Carlson pace is insane. You would think if those numbers translated to the NHL he'd be putting up a lot more points nowadays.
alot of point production depends on how a player is utilized - who their linemates are, how much PP time they get, how sheltered they are with zone starts at even strength. Alot of times the correlation is weaker team = more points for the player because of increased oppurtunities. It's why stats people are trying to get to another level beyond just looking at how many goals and assists people accumulate.
Cin
Eurosnob.
BigG44
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Just for giggles and ***** .... if Dallas can get Nemeth and Nichushkin in the AHL playoffs:
McKenzie-Morin-Ritchie
Nichushkin-Dowling-Ranford
Hulak-Smith-Rallo
Stransky-Dickinson-Glennie
Nemeth-Oleksiak
Jokipakka-Honka
Meech-Fortunus
Wishful thinking ...
McKenzie-Morin-Ritchie
Nichushkin-Dowling-Ranford
Hulak-Smith-Rallo
Stransky-Dickinson-Glennie
Nemeth-Oleksiak
Jokipakka-Honka
Meech-Fortunus
Wishful thinking ...
BigG44
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Lindell will be with Finland at World ... like Pokka last year. Elie will likely be on a long playoff run with Erie.
Bystrom has virtually no chance of knocking off any of those 6 D ... although I'd personally be fine with him playing over Meech or Fortunus. Realistically that won't happen, especially considering you'd still have Gaunce as an option. It would take 2 injuries to probably get Bystrom in a game OR one of Dallas' D (Oleksiak, Jokipakka, Nemeth) not being eligible to join the Texas Stars for the playoffs.
Ully is in a similar boat. Although, I didn't forget Shore either, and there's a chance he'd play over Ully. I almost listed Shore over Stransky, but even Troock has probably earned first shot over Ully or Shore. Both for sure be in the mix as one of the top injury replacements. Nuke is likely a pipedream though so that potentially opens the door for another late season addition.
Hulak and Rallo are entrenched like Meech and Fortunus. They aren't getting benched for late season additions. Hulak is sort of this years Hedden, and he's had some great success lately in the Top 6.
Texas' playoff depth as the potential to be ridiculous. That's why I'm so adamant they just need to get in. You take last years group of defenders and replace Gaunce with Honka ... you have a huge improvement. Meech and Fortunus are still playing about the same as last year, and Oleksiak and Jokipakka have made major strides. Nemeth is a question mark because of returning from injury, but he's had a lot of practice rehabing and getting back in the mix late in the season. I'm pretty confident that just like the broken foot last year, he'll be up and running pretty quick once he's clear. The wrist may limit his already limited offense, but his bread and butter is not impacted by the injury. He's still a physical D with great positioning.
Nilstrop was nothing special, and I think Rynnas might even be an improvement. The forwards or as good or better as well. I'm not saying they will repeat, but they should be ultra competitive once they have their full lineup late in the season.
Idaho could have a good team as well. It wouldn't be a terrible idea for Ully and others to go pursue the Kelly Cup with them.
Elysian
Emo Stars Fan
Stars99Lobo37
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FinPanda
Barkov Stanley cup champ!
Pokka wasn't at the Worlds. He was on the camp, but never make it to the roster. He should have made it though.
BigG44
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Thanks for the correction. I knew I saw he went to camp with them and that he didn't come over to NA to finish out the season. I remember now that was because Kärpät went all the way and won the Liiga championship.
I'd love to see Lindell come over .... especially considering Ässät doesn't seem like a team that has much chance of going deep. With 13 games to go, it seems they'd be on the road in the Wildcard round if the season ended today. He could be done with Ässät by March 17th.
It would be great if Dallas could work out an agreement with Finland like they did Sweden with John Klingberg. The original plan before his injury was to have John play a few weeks in Texas, then he'd return to Europe for the World Championships.
All of the Finnish posters seem to have indicate Lindell is a virtual lock for the WC roster. I honestly have no idea so I just take their opinion on that.
BigG44
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I didn't have time to watch both games last night. I've got to watch this one. Many commented that this was Oleksiak's best game, and Laxdal was clearly happy:
Maybe something to using him as the net front presence. It'll be interesting to see if Dallas would ever consider using him and Ritchie as the primary guys. They already have so many right shots on the first unit, he and Benn might compliment Seguin, Spezza, and Klingberg.
That 2nd unit is lacking talent anyway. Eventually throw Eakin out there for faceoffs with Ritchie, Hemsky, and Nichushkin. Pick which ever D is hot to finish it out on the 2nd unit. Could be some nice units next year.
Oh yeah ... love this line from Shapiro:
I've got to see that play.
Maybe something to using him as the net front presence. It'll be interesting to see if Dallas would ever consider using him and Ritchie as the primary guys. They already have so many right shots on the first unit, he and Benn might compliment Seguin, Spezza, and Klingberg.
That 2nd unit is lacking talent anyway. Eventually throw Eakin out there for faceoffs with Ritchie, Hemsky, and Nichushkin. Pick which ever D is hot to finish it out on the 2nd unit. Could be some nice units next year.
Oh yeah ... love this line from Shapiro:
I've got to see that play.
piqued
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Thank God someone in the org. finally said it. Maybe they'll stop trying to turn him into something else.
Unfortunately an offensive defenseman is the last thing we need. If that's all he can be then he won't have a place on the Stars.
BigG44
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?
It's exactly what you want. Weber is an offensive defenseman too ... he just happens to also be a great defender in his own zone and a mean SOB. That's the definition of a top pair, all around defender.
This is a massive exaggeration obviously, but it's like saying give me that Weber guy BUT HE BETTER NOT DARE UNLEASH THAT SLAPSHOT.
Laxdal was just saying the guy has better hands and wheels than people realize. He's also developing them quicker than Chara did. Not saying that he will be that guy, but it's not surprising it's taking Oleksaik longer to put it together. He's not had a normal development path.
This is more positive news that hopefully he can translate to NHL success, but he's long way from being an all around D still. It's going to be 2 or 3 years before you see his full potential or he flops. Maybe not flops ... but 2 to 3 years to know if he's more Chara or more Hal Gill.
Hull Fan
The Future is Now
The problem is what to do in those 2 years. Play him in Dallas and watch the derps hopefully iron themselves out, while trying to make the playoffs. Or trade him for a more developed defender ready right now.
Steps are good and we'll have to see how far is he in the next callup but win now and bad defending don't work together and that's what he's been so far in his Dallas Stars career.
Steps are good and we'll have to see how far is he in the next callup but win now and bad defending don't work together and that's what he's been so far in his Dallas Stars career.
Frozen Failure
They got business in my hockey, and I hate it.
A purely defensive defenseman is kind of useless when we need guys who can drive possession and not constantly ice the puck. I think the problem is that they don't know what to do when they don't have possession of the puck. Nemeth was good at controlling opponents possession (so was Grossmann but his knee injuries and contract...)
Oleksiak will never be Gill. He really just needs to learn to be intimidating at the NHL level, but that is hard when every forward is used to challenging 6'billion" monsters like Chara or Weber. Being strong in the corners and shutting down opponents who think they can beat you in the most eye opening way possible... thats the big thing.
Which is also why Jordie Benn and Alex Goligoski are such scapegoats. No one is scared of them. They know they can manhandle them and keep possession of the puck and never have it taken away without other sacrifices.
I keep Oleksiak no matter what. He has the potential to be a superb defenseman in the NHL if he can take that step. And even if he doesn't, he'll still be a serviceable NHL player.
Oleksiak will never be Gill. He really just needs to learn to be intimidating at the NHL level, but that is hard when every forward is used to challenging 6'billion" monsters like Chara or Weber. Being strong in the corners and shutting down opponents who think they can beat you in the most eye opening way possible... thats the big thing.
Which is also why Jordie Benn and Alex Goligoski are such scapegoats. No one is scared of them. They know they can manhandle them and keep possession of the puck and never have it taken away without other sacrifices.
I keep Oleksiak no matter what. He has the potential to be a superb defenseman in the NHL if he can take that step. And even if he doesn't, he'll still be a serviceable NHL player.
BigG44
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What are you talking about? You don't go from AHL defender to NHL top pair D. Klingberg isn't the norm, and I hope very much it's sustainable but he could have a sophomore slump.
Oleksiak has already proven he's more than capable of defending and contributing as a 3rd pair D in the NHL right now. There's plenty of time for him to develop a larger role.
In the history of the NHL, nearly every single prospect that's ever grown into an NHLer starts as a Bottom 6 forward / 3rd pair D and either proves that's their ceiling or grows into more. This isn't some unique situation.
Impatience is a virtue.
Hull Fan
The Future is Now
He's had plenty of issues on the bottom pair. I never said anything about top pair. Don't read into what's not actually written. He's got a great ceiling but I do question his floor. His hockey IQ isn't stellar or at least he hasn't shown a lot of it. There are only so many spots and quite frankly I sincerely doubt Nill and Ruff are going to roll with 4 rookie defenders. Someone is going to go and while Jokipakka may have the lowest ceiling he appears to have a pretty good floor with room to grow and there doesn't appear to be as many questions about his hockey sense.
BigG44
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In my mind that's exactly what your wrote. You seem to infer only Oleksiak makes young mistakes based on that comment. If you don't live with growing pains, you don't develop any players.
Not one player on the team joined as a rookie without some kinks to iron out, and even he hadn't shown considerable improvement since the beginning of the year the conversation might make some sense.
I'm just reacting to what seems like a very unrealistic expectation of a player who this season has done exactly what you'd expect of a 21/22 year old player. We don't have to emulate the Toronto media.
Not one player on the team joined as a rookie without some kinks to iron out, and even he hadn't shown considerable improvement since the beginning of the year the conversation might make some sense.
I'm just reacting to what seems like a very unrealistic expectation of a player who this season has done exactly what you'd expect of a 21/22 year old player. We don't have to emulate the Toronto media.
